Stanley Meyer Explained

[h20power]

Ions

Ions
If an atom has more or less electrons than protons, that atom acquires an electrical charge. A shortage of electrons results in a positive charge; an excess of electrons gives a negative charge. The element's identity remains the same, no matter how great the excess or shortage of electrons. In the extreme case, all the electrons might be removed from an atom, leaving only the nucleus. However, it would still represent the same element as it would if it has all its electrons. A charged atom is called an ion. When a substance contains many ions, the material is said to be ionized.

A good example of an ionized substance is the atmosphere of the earth at high altitudes. The ultraviolet radiation from the sun, as well as high-speed subatomic particles from space, result in the gases' atoms being stripped of electrons. The ionized gases tend to be found in layers at certain altitudes. These layers are responsible for long-distance radio communications at some frequencies.

Ionized materials generally conduct electricity well, even if the substance is normally not a good conductor. Ionized air makes it possible for a lighting stroke to take place, for example. The ionization, caused by a powerful electric field, occurs along a jagged, narrow channel. After the lightning flash, the nuclei of the atom quickly attract stray electrons back, and the air becomes electrically neutral again.

An element might be both an ion and an isotope different from the usual isotope. For example, an atom of carbon might have eight neutrons rather than the usual six, thus being the isotope C14, and it might have been stripped of an electron, giving it a positive unit electric charge and making it an ion. Taken from: Teach Yourself Electricity and ... - Google Book Search

I stand corrected in some of my thinking, thanks Gauss I was wrong about the charge for the water mist has a negetive charge and the unstable oxygen atoms have a positive charge. Thanks for making me go back to the books .

In this we can see what Stanley Meyer did, after the gas processor has stripped the oxygen atoms of electrons the screen mesh grid of the electron extraction circuit consumes the stray electrons thus not allowing the oxygen atoms to restabilize. The coherent light sources are chosen to hit at oxygens wavelengths, therefore targeting the oxygen atoms in the incoming air supply.

The injectors work the same way a Taylor cone works for the most part. They give the water a negative charge by passing it through a positive voltage potential zone, and that charge creates an ever expanding plume of ever decreasing size water droplets that repel each other. This aids in mixing for the water molecules will not combine to form larger droplets but break up into smaller ones insted.

Now to go over the science part once again. Looking at the reactions to break and form the water molecule:
4 H-O 459 kJ/mol bonds are broken taking 1836 kJ/mol to do so.
2 H-H 436 kJ/mol bonds 872 kJ/mol and 1 O=O bond 498 kJ/mol are formed yeilding 1370 kJ/mol.
This is why all scientist say it takes more energy to break the bonds of water than you get from combining them, for the net sum of the reaction is negative, -466 kJ/mol.
With the unstable oxgyen atoms stripped to the four energy level we get:
2 H-H bonds 872 kJ/mol and 1 O=O bond 7469.2 kJ/mol are formed yeilding 8341.2 kJ/mol. The net sum of the reaction now is 8341.2-1836 = +6505.2 kJ/mol. The unstable oxygen atoms have more than enough energy to break the water molecules down, and the resulting reactions net sum is positive. In the most basic sense the water molecule was placed in an atmosphere that is capable of water combustion through this controled modified envirnment that is being created by the Gas Processor and Electron Extraction Circuit.

Again if I made any mistakes feel free to point them out, but please do so in the scientific way. I hope this helps in your understanding Guass, for even when I do make errors it doesn't change the way the Gas Processor and Electron Extraction Circuit work to make it possible to have water as a fantastic new fuel source.


h2opower.

[Guest]

OK, I rest my case on this one. Thanks for your efforts anyway!

[natone_m]

Gas Processor

Out of all the forums that I've read about Stanley Meyers technology and WFC this one is the only one that makes any sense. Mostly all forums that deal with Stanley Meyers tech. focus primarily on the WTF VIC. It seems that everyone is trying to uncover the truth behind the WFC that can produce MASIVE amounts of HHO. I haven't heard or seen proof that anyone has accomplished this (although I'm probably wrong). There are obviously other elements of Stanley Meyers tech that need study (like the Gas Processor) I think h20power's observations sound right on the money.

This forum should probably be the start of discussions for experiments with the gas processor EEC construction / ideas. I say what the heck! My car isn't running off water yet by researching all of these other failed attempts at water fuel tech. So many questions:

Where do we begin?
What should be a resonable beginner goal? Making a 5hp engine run?
Has anyone tried to make a gas processor/eec yet?
How big should the electrodes be?
What voltage will it take to strip the electrons?
At what Freq?
Anyone have suggestions on PWM circuits that may suit this?
Do we need a small HHO generator? Which one would be best?
Can we make a cheap and dirty injector or can we deliver all 3 elements into the engine differently?
BLAA BLAA BLAA

h2opower what do you think? Where should we start?

[Guest]

Natone, you are right about the need for cheap and dirty here...

If you can make the VIC you have many parts like the EEC, gas processor and water spark injector(apart from some mechanical work). But for electrostatic filter, ignition timer function and mixer it is a different story.

I believe anyone should focus on VIC, EEC and water spark injector. If you get those 3 parts and a mixer finished you could have something cheap and dirty. Just to prove the concept. But it will take energy and money, mark my words. And precision in each part will be needed. Meyer was a first class engineer.

Forget laser, static filters, steam resonator etc as long as possible, they will demand alot of energy.

Go find 10 good buddies and start a common project to share the workload. And get an electronics expert to start with...

Good luck!

[h20power]

Build the Gas Processor for starters and as you start to study on what is needed this video shows two parts of the Gas Processor the positive and negetive voltage zones: YouTube - Lec 10 | MIT 6.013 Electromagnetics and Applications, Fall 2

More information on the Gas Processor see the attatchment for the injectors: Stanley Meyer: Water Electrolysis -- Canadian Patent # 2067735 -- Water Fule Injection System
Then you will have to find an injector system that you can add in a high positive voltage zone to give the water mist a negetive charge same princable as a Taylor cone or Lord Kevins water battery YouTube - Walter Lewin Makes a Battery out of Cans and Water .

Follow Stanley Meyer on this one, though at this point the whole process became too simple, for he got rid of the WFC, but he kept everyone thinking that he did not, and he started missleading everyone for patent protection purposes. The Gas Gun shows a gas processor that is worth copying.

If you look at the patent and take a good look at the injectors you will notice that he says it is an isolated circuit yet it is bolted right to the head of the engine. The water injectors are not little WFC's they are to give the water molecules a charge, mix all of the need componets(ionized air gases, recirculated exhaust gases, and atomized water mist), and spark ignite it. The whole set up bypasses any vehicals existing fuel system and computer controls, but it is not the only way to get the job done. For what Stanley Meyer was trying to do it worked perfectly.

All three needed items can be delivered seperatly as you have already guessed(atomized water mist, ionized air gases, and recirculated exhuast gases). Then it becomes a trick to find which type of vehicals fuel system works well for this. Now Guass has it also right, you can get the job done with hho, but then you have to make sure that the hho mixture will never back flash for if it does with this much energy content there goes the intake system of the engine, gasous injectors are the safest route to go like that. Not sure how much hho will be needed to, but follow Stanley Meyer's lead and shoot for a pressurized system that maintains the hho at 15 psi or so.

I am for the water mist since that way is simplest and safest. And any water source can be used since it will be the ionized air gases breaking down the water molecules, and not some form of electronlysis. All of the frequency stuff can be found in the patent from 10k-50k Hz and Meyer gives his reasoning. When you let the ionized oxygen atoms break down the water molecule the whole system get very easy, do your homework and you will see .

Well, I hope that helps,

Best Regards,
h2opower.

PS Guass let me handle this thread if you want to tell the world how you think the system works make your own thread, okay?

[rdmwc]

well, i too may be one of the stupid ones, but h20power, wouldnt the water need to pass through a passage of high negative voltage potential to become negatively charged? basically just reversing the polatity of the leads on a taylor cone model?
i also agree, we need to first focus on successfully producing a gas processor. then worry about the injector for without the gas processor the rest is useless.

[h20power]

well, i too may be one of the stupid ones, but h20power, wouldnt the water need to pass through a passage of high negative voltage potential to become negatively charged? basically just reversing the polatity of the leads on a taylor cone model?
i also agree, we need to first focus on successfully producing a gas processor. then worry about the injector for without the gas processor the rest is useless.

The bit on Ions I wrote is the correct way, I even confirmed it with my own college text books. I should have known better since I do understand the Kelvin water dropper. But like I always say, my mistakes wont stop the Gas Processor from working

The one thing I don't understand is I have shown that Stanley Meyer didn't break the 1st or 2nd laws of thermodynamics and people still want to belive in magic. I just don't get it They act as if finding out the true source of power was pulled from some comic book, when it took me a very long time to figure out how Stanley Meyer power his 1.6L engine with an hho production rate of only 7L/min..


h2opower.

[Guest]

Now you will receive the big and detailed picture H2O after so many years of trying and tinkering, you seem to overestimate your logical thinking I believe(Mr Stupid believes).

How do you get steam power if you mix neutral water mist and O4+???

Why should O4+ pass through normal charged(!) water mist if the ions can recombine at the border of the water mist?

Makes no sense at all to anyone, did you hear about self analysis? To know your strengths and weaknesses? Have you heard of neutrinolysis? That is how the lightning ions finds it electrons, that is why HHO is negatively charged, read Konstantin Meyl.

And I am Mr Stupid....

Now read this H2O in case you care listening.

How the ION ENGINE works:

1) Water mist passes through between the cap plates(different geometries can be used), some of the mist becomes HHO and some stays water mist(percentage..). It passes quickly and maybe only 0.1-10% becomes HHO. Makes sense to anyone.. Why pulsing water mist if Meyer does not want to produce an ion??! Do you believe he was stupid too?..

2. Separate your water mist from your ions in the electrostatic filter so we can mix our parts(positive ions, negative ions and water mist with dampeners) properly before ignition in the spray pattern. Makes sense again.

3. Mix the ions and the water mist so that one ion(ie HHO) is in the center, then put normal water mist around this ion and then the opposite ion(ie O4+) on the outside of the water mist. The mixing is called the spray pattern. This way the ions will pass through a very explosive media(water mist) at ignition. Makes sense.

4. Ignite. The oxygen ions will fly THROUGH THE WATER MIST TO RECOMBINE with HHO electrons causing friction which produces steam which pushes the piston and produces work! Makes sense.



Water mist is only there to make steam power nothing else! Makes sense.

A child will understand the above mentioned logic. We now have all the logics ready to start doing something. Thinking before acting.

Finally you received your missing logic H2O. I hope you some day can appreciate Mr Stupid a bit, I tried alot here thanks to you. And I appreciate you alot since your missing logics from the outset of this thread made me work through this and find the correct solution in the end.

Anyone studying this subject professionally, consider this message and you have many of your questions answerred, it has taken some considerable meditation getting here.

[h20power]

Now you will receive the big and detailed picture H2O after so many years of trying and tinkering, you seem to overestimate your logical thinking I believe(Mr Stupid believes).

How do you get steam power if you mix neutral water mist and O4+???

Why should O4+ pass through normal charged(!) water mist if the ions can recombine at the border of the water mist?

Makes no sense at all to anyone, did you hear about self analysis? To know your strengths and weaknesses? Have you heard of neutrinolysis? That is how the lightning ions finds it electrons, that is why HHO is negatively charged, read Konstantin Meyl.

And I am Mr Stupid....

Now read this H2O in case you care listening.

How the ION ENGINE works:

1) Water mist passes through between the cap plates(different geometries can be used), some of the mist becomes HHO and some stays water mist(percentage..). It passes quickly and maybe only 0.1-10% becomes HHO. Makes sense to anyone.. Why pulsing water mist if Meyer does not want to produce an ion??! Do you believe he was stupid too?..

2. Separate your water mist from your ions in the electrostatic filter so we can mix our parts(positive ions, negative ions and water mist with dampeners) properly before ignition in the spray pattern. Makes sense again.

3. Mix the ions and the water mist so that one ion(ie HHO) is in the center, then put normal water mist around this ion and then the opposite ion(ie O4+) on the outside of the water mist. The mixing is called the spray pattern. This way the ions will pass through a very explosive media(water mist) at ignition. Makes sense.

4. Ignite. The oxygen ions will fly THROUGH THE WATER MIST TO RECOMBINE with HHO electrons causing friction which produces steam which pushes the piston and produces work! Makes sense.



Water mist is only there to make steam power nothing else! Makes sense.

A child will understand the above mentioned logic. We now have all the logics ready to start doing something. Thinking before acting.

Finally you received your missing logic H2O. I hope you some day can appreciate Mr Stupid a bit, I tried alot here thanks to you. And I appreciate you alot since your missing logics from the outset of this thread made me work through this and find the correct solution in the end.

Anyone studying this subject professionally, consider this message and you have many of your questions answerred, it has taken some considerable meditation getting here.

I will ask you just one more time, MAKE YOUR OWN THREAD!

[h20power]

Recap of an answer to an old question I had

Any water as fuel

water mist, ionized gases, noncombustible gas, and spark or heat ignition.}

This time I went and dusted off my chemistry books to make sure I was doing everything the right way. But like I said before if I made a mistake someplace please feel free to correct me using the methods of science so your corrections are universly understood, I am only human after all.

Time for energy independence, wouldn't you say



h2opower.

[chub]

Great ideas!

How much energy does it take to get Oxygen to its 4th energy level state? What would the process be to get a "cold start" engine going? The 4th energy level state can be hold onto for 0.74 seconds. After an engine stopped, how would you get it going again?

When Stanley refers to heat zone, doesn't that refer to the cylinder walls and piston's top surface? I've read that causes ping (pre-ignition) when used with petroleum with low octane levels. Or does he imply pressure and also the temperatures of the piston/cylinder walls? What temperature do you/Stanley expect the engine to run optimal? What about other gases like Nitrogen that binds with Oxygen at higher Temperatures?

From what I've read on the injector, it appears that the recycled gas from exhaust is supposed to act as a inhibitor/octane and there for must be set to a fixed rate for idle purposes.

Aren't you worried about radiation that will come from the stripping of electrons off Oxygen to get it to its 4th energy level? What about other elements that could have been stripped from their electron(s)?

Thanks for your insight. The puzzle pieces are in front of us. I'm sure we just need to adapt it to make sure we don't cause more harm than good.

[h20power]

Great ideas!

How much energy does it take to get Oxygen to its 4th energy level state? What would the process be to get a "cold start" engine going? The 4th energy level state can be hold onto for 0.74 seconds. After an engine stopped, how would you get it going again?

When Stanley refers to heat zone, doesn't that refer to the cylinder walls and piston's top surface? I've read that causes ping (pre-ignition) when used with petroleum with low octane levels. Or does he imply pressure and also the temperatures of the piston/cylinder walls? What temperature do you/Stanley expect the engine to run optimal? What about other gases like Nitrogen that binds with Oxygen at higher Temperatures?

From what I've read on the injector, it appears that the recycled gas from exhaust is supposed to act as a inhibitor/octane and there for must be set to a fixed rate for idle purposes.

Aren't you worried about radiation that will come from the stripping of electrons off Oxygen to get it to its 4th energy level? What about other elements that could have been stripped from their electron(s)?

Thanks for your insight. The puzzle pieces are in front of us. I'm sure we just need to adapt it to make sure we don't cause more harm than good.

You raise some interesting questions there chub. The first one is easy for mother nature has been doing that since the dawn of time in the form of a lightning storm. The ioniztion energies is a two way street, what goes up must come down, so it takes the same amount of energy to raise the energy levels as you get from the enregy levels on their way down. But what is different in what Stanley Meyer did was to make a light intermix chamber in combination with an ionization chamber. If you think about it it is the same conditions found on the top of the lightining clouds and the earths ionisphere. There it forms a capacitor too that light is able to mix with the atoms, just like the Gas Processor. So now light energy has been added to the equation, but Stanley Meyer didn't really give us much help here . Things we have to know are what wavelenths to use for who knows which ones will work best. I suguest focusing in on oxygens wavelengths, but there are more than 73 to choose from everyone is going to have to just give some a try.

The second question about the cold start is also easy. For as you crank the engine it draws in air and this air now has been primed thus completing Stanley Meyer processor of mixing the mixture together and then igniting the resulting mixture. The gas speeds in an engines intake system are quite fast, example a four cyclander engine that has a displacement of 1.8L idles on average of 900 RPMs. Now I wont go over all the math for I feel you will get the picture. Now 900 RPMs is equal to 15 revolutions per second. Now let us divid that by two since it has four cycles and only two of the cylanders are drawing in air so we get 7.5 times per second. That would mean that 13.75 liters of air just got dragged through the intake system per second. So as you can gather the gas speeds are really fast. .74 seconds to an engine is on the slow side when you only talking moving the air about 2 feet or less.

About the Nitrogen we have to keep the temps below 1400 degrees I belive off of the top of my head. Stanley Meyer did this by recirculating the exhuast gases, but again he didn't give us any information as to how much. Therfore we all have to test it all out the hard way. I would gather though that at start ups you really don't want much recirculation going on and also when the engine is cold. But one thing I really haven't talked about much is the use of the steam resonator. It seems to have the same use as Albert Bowe's technology; watch: water manipulation motor - Google Video
For remember all the laws of physics/chemistry still can be put too good use like gas law science PV=nRT. And if you inject in water that is around 90 degrees or so in vacuum conditions the water will turn into vapor, not steam, for as you lower the pressure you also lower the heat of vaporization point.

Not sure about the heat zones will have to look that up.

There's no need to worry about radiation for a lightining storm doesn't produce any and this technology is based on it. The only real dangers there are getting struck by it, so don't grap onto the ends of the VIC transformer while it is working , lol.

I hope this helped some, just doing my part to aid humanity to be free of the energy enslavement we all find ourselves in right now.


h2opower.

[natone_m]

Gas Processor

A couple of questions:

The video of the MIT electromagnetics experiment showed that they escentially had a gas processor rigged up. They were using a straight dc power source (non pulsing) of around 15 to 20 kv to ionize the air in the tube. Can we use a straight dc power source on the gas processor and just gate the on and off for the EEC? I can see the reasoning for the pulsing and step charging effect when splitting water, but the gas processor is not splitting water. It is focused on oxygen. If that is correct do we have to worry about a VIC and chokes and tuning variable inductors and all that hocus pocus or can we just have a HV source.

Having said that, if the above statement is correct does the same apply to the LED ON/OFF time? Do we have to pulse the LEDs or can they be always on (except for the EEC off time)? I would think if you have the right intensity / wavelenth, the ON/OFF time should be syncronized with the HV dc if not left on all the time? Do we even need the LEDs? Please enlighten me.

If the LEDs are needed where can i find info on oxygen wavelengths and more importantly possible circuit to control the intensity. I don't have a good understanding of photon wavelenths ect. but i do dabble in the electronics fairly well. I was looking on Newark at the different LEDs they have and i'm wondering if the expensive high intensity LEDs are the way to go or can they be the cheapies?

As far as the tubes i was thinking of a 2" and 1" OD 316 SS tube. By looking at the pictures of Meyers gas processor it doesn't look like they could be very large.

[h20power]

A couple of questions:

The video of the MIT electromagnetics experiment showed that they escentially had a gas processor rigged up. They were using a straight dc power source (non pulsing) of around 15 to 20 kv to ionize the air in the tube. Can we use a straight dc power source on the gas processor and just gate the on and off for the EEC? I can see the reasoning for the pulsing and step charging effect when splitting water, but the gas processor is not splitting water. It is focused on oxygen. If that is correct do we have to worry about a VIC and chokes and tuning variable inductors and all that hocus pocus or can we just have a HV source.

Having said that, if the above statement is correct does the same apply to the LED ON/OFF time? Do we have to pulse the LEDs or can they be always on (except for the EEC off time)? I would think if you have the right intensity / wavelenth, the ON/OFF time should be syncronized with the HV dc if not left on all the time? Do we even need the LEDs? Please enlighten me.

If the LEDs are needed where can i find info on oxygen wavelengths and more importantly possible circuit to control the intensity. I don't have a good understanding of photon wavelenths ect. but i do dabble in the electronics fairly well. I was looking on Newark at the different LEDs they have and i'm wondering if the expensive high intensity LEDs are the way to go or can they be the cheapies?

As far as the tubes i was thinking of a 2" and 1" OD 316 SS tube. By looking at the pictures of Meyers gas processor it doesn't look like they could be very large.

Hi natone,
The VIC transformer is what all electrictions say it is, and LC circuit. Too many people made the whole darn thing far more complexe than it is, and Stanley Meyer didn't help matter much. The VIC transformers work by way of capacitive reactance that is how they make their high voltages. The thing that Stanley Meyer did, in my oppion, is to match all the bobbin spaces inductances to the inductance of the primary coil. That is to say each bobbin cavity has the same inductance as the primary coil. This is done so all coils in the transformer hit reasonance at the same time, that goes for the primary, secondary, and dual chokes, this is done by verying the wire sizes. Take a look at these two pages: DC Tesla Coil design DC Tesla Coil design for they give great insite into the true use of the blocking diode, they call it a de-Q-ing diode. This will give everyone a clear view of what the step charging is really doing and not what Stanley Meyer said it was doing, since it is Tesla technology after all these VIC's. Sure I belive you can use other types of transformers on both the WFC and the Gas Processor, but the VIC transformer is the most effecient and effective at limiting current since all coils are working together as one. The MIT video is a Gas Processor(GP) in action, minus the EEC, coherent light sources, and moving air flow.

One thing I would like to point out is if you don't have the EEC neither the WFC or the GP will work. Stanley Meyer's patents are showing us that he was learning more about what was truly going on as time went by, for they are sort-of an evolution of the water for fuel technology. In the end Stanley Meyer had done away with the WFC, and in doing so made the whole process far less complexe and also far safer.

The coherent light has to be pulsed for that is the only way light can interact with matter. Look up the history of coherent light and you will see that when the cameras where trying to increase their shutter speed they found out that the light was messing everying up for it was exposing the film. As for the wavelenths this site gives a lot of them, but not all of them: Spectra of Gas Discharges Which ones will work best will only be found out through testing.

As for the size of Stanley Meyer's device though he didn't give us anything he did show us the device and we can add up the LEDs that seem to be 5mm and go from there. Stanley Meyer used standerd LEDs so I see no reason to not follow his lead. For the pulsing I am going to put the EEC and LEDs 180 degrees from the GP's pulsing, no one has to follow what I am doing, but for me it's a start. But I do know we have to follow the manufactures specifications on the LEDs so we don't blow them out. Use the internet for what it is best at, teaching. This way we learn everything there is to know about just what Stanley Meyer did or did not do.

My ideas and theories are different than the whole worlds views on Stanley Meyer's water for fuel technology, and I am not affaid to stand alone. I have used math and science to explain what Stanley Meyer did and not some catch all terms that are geared to stop people from thinking like; "Zero Point Energy," or "Energy from the Vacuum." I did my homework and kept my noise to grindstone. In doing so I now fully understand how lightining storms work and the science guys still don't to this day. I just felt like doing the right thing to aid humanity and gave the technology away, for that is the only way any of us are going to see it.

I hope I answered most of your questions, just doing what I can to help. But on designing the units I will not help for I want to see many ways this can be done not just one way. My designs may not be the overall best for someone out there is bound to out do me. In all of my engineering classes when we where given a project, each team came up with a different solution to the same problem, and just about all of them worked. I see no difference with this problem we all face. Plus, I like people to engage their minds and think, the lazzy minded people are not fit to be on Noahs boat.


h2opower.

[h20power]

Video of Stanley Meyer talking about the Gas Processor.

Here is a video of Stanley Meyer where he talks about the energy yeilds I have already done the math for. YouTube - Stanley Meyer Switzerland 1989 Part 5 of 6 and YouTube - Stanley Meyer Switzerland 1989 Part 6 of 6


h2opower.