Stanley Meyer Explained

[mmm_66]

That patent is not from Stanley Meyer. It is from a company called Zenion Industries.

Thanks for pointing that out to me. I was sent this patent in a mail and just always assumed it was from Stan, I then read it and then put it away in my files. I read so much that sometimes everything kinda runs into one topic at times.
I was toying with the idea of Electrolysis using maganese dioxide with a weak mixture of sufuric acid along with some copper plates to see if it is possible to coat it using typical battery charger current? It's just a thought. I will post my findings later on.

mmm_66

[pmazz850]

US Patent 5,010,869

Here is the patent. 5,010,869

[Farside]

Drop the Nitrogen will you please?
It's a time consuming sidetrack.
I'm sure there are other threads that focus on this topic. CO2 is also in the atmosphere but I'm not going to start talking about it's role in this engine. It's an (interesting) academic exercise best left until after the engine is running don't you think?

thanks in advance.

[h20power]

Hi Everyone,
I am going to leave them alone with their new thread http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...ater-fuel.html for it is a question of choice for the most part and my last post gave a clear thought to the decisions people are going to have to make on their own. The only time I will post there from now on is to answer any questions and/or if my name or Stanley Meyer is made out to look like a fraud or a lier he was just greedy and didn't know who he was up against for he thought they wanted this technology. The last question I gave them can not be answered with their theories concerning the "Hydrogen Gas Gun" as that device was producing thermo explosive energy, and clearly there is no outside air flowing through the gas processor, but only gases that are being created from the break down of the water molecule and trace gases that where dissolved in the water. Sometimes it is fun to see a fish flop around when it's out of the water but I think I have had my fun with them and will leave them alone to their own thoughts for after all this is an individual effort and I have to respect that is their interpretation of the patents of Stanley Meyer's. Even though I can see it is full of flaws I still have to respect their thread, but I will not allow Stanley Meyer to be dragged through the mud by them, and reserve the right to defend myself if my name is brought up in that thread. Stanley Meyer is dead, so let us all show him some respect


h2opower.

[Aaron]

Nitrogen

Drop the Nitrogen will you please?
It's a time consuming sidetrack.
I'm sure there are other threads that focus on this topic. CO2 is also in the atmosphere but I'm not going to start talking about it's role in this engine. It's an (interesting) academic exercise best left until after the engine is running don't you think?

thanks in advance.

Documentation beats conversation and you are spreading disinformation,
period. Seems like there are people already scared for some reason.

For your convenience.

I showed EXACTLY what Meyer is showing and doing in those patent
excerpts. People can see that with their own eyes and you tell them to see
something different.

Below is a HYDROGEN GAS GUN and in this patent, STAN MEYER says
the combustible mixture has AMBIENT AIR GASSES and he also goes on
to state that the AMBIENT AIR makes the combustion controllable.

Even if Meyer had at some point a system that didn't utilize nitrogen,
it is irrelevant. You're making it seem like it invalidates EVERY patent
that he clearly demonstrates mixing nitrogen with the mix and recycling
the exhaust. You think about that clearly and be intellectually honest
about it. Even this gas gun, which shows only water going into the inlet
in the visual diagram...the text reveals that nitrogen IS part of the process
whether you want to believe it or not.

You are telling people to see something about Meyer's patents that is NOT
true in the least bit, I'm showing it clearly with Meyer's own patents,
verbiage and visual diagrams all together. You cannot argue this and you
cannot tell people that see this that in fact, "nitrogen isn't part of the
process." You can hold up 4 fingers and tell me to see 5, but I guarantee
you that I'm going to see 4 and will tell you that I see 4, period.

Feel free to discount the nitrogen in your own Meyer thread. You obviously
disagree with the nitrogen concept as you have so clearly spelled out and
there is nothing else you can post in this thread that will explain that any
more so for the record, we can agree to disagree - as I leave this evidence
in Meyer's own words/diagrams/patents...

Just because the diagram doesn't show the nitrogen does NOT mean it
isn't there.

[h20power]

Would someone like to circle number 1 for him showing the water inlet. The gases that are called "ambient air gases" are gases that are dissolved in water at the time when the water is being broken down and are nothing more than trace gases and can be ignored. Did you look up the solubility table of gases in water Aaron as I requested you to do? Sure doesn't look like you did when you see the real numbers you are saying are vital to producing thermo explosive energy. Solubility of Gases in Water

Notice that it is a gram of gas per 1 kilogram of water, noting that there is from .03 to .01 grams of N2 in the temperature range from 0 to 60 degrees C, and how many grams of hydrogen and oxygen are in 1 kilogram of water? Do you need me to solve that one for you telling you how many grams of hydrogen and oxygen are in 1 kg of water? Now do you see what I mean when I call them trace gases? Follow the science not the NDA team!


h2opower.

[Aaron]

ambient air gasses

Meyer says: AMBIENT AIR GASSES
so it's misleading to talk about tiny insignificant amount of rare gasses.

The entire premise of your argument is false.

You say there is NO nitrogen or anything else other than oxygen and
hydrogen. You claim this over and over.

Meyer says in that gas gun patent below that the combustible mix
is oxygen, hydrogen AND ambient air gasses.

Whether it is a lot or little is one point but the point you try to make
is that there is none, which is completely false and contradictory
to Meyer's own patents.

Very curious as to why you're so defensive against people seeing this.

[h20power]

Meyer says: AMBIENT AIR GASSES
so it's misleading to talk about tiny insignificant amount of rare gasses.

The entire premise of your argument is false.

You say there is NO nitrogen or anything else other than oxygen and
hydrogen. You claim this over and over.

Meyer says in that gas gun patent below that the combustible mix
is oxygen, hydrogen AND ambient air gasses.

Whether it is a lot or little is one point but the point you try to make
is that there is none, which is completely false and contradictory
to Meyer's own patents.

Very curious as to why you're so defensive against people seeing this.

Okay chance to answer the question was given to you and you didn't answer the question so you must not know the answer: It's 111.12 g of h2 and 888.96 g O2. So you have 111.12 g of hydrogen and 888.96 g of oxygen plus .03-.01 grams of nitrogen going into the gas processor per 1 kg of water used. If you don't get it now Aaron your book is going to give me some free BTU's.


h2opower.

[chasson321]

Nitrogen is in the water

In regards to the Hydrogen Gas Gun Patent 4826581, figure 1 shows only one non electrical inlet into the system, i.e. the water inlet. There is no ambient air going through a gas processor. Remember there is but one non electrical inlet, the water line.

So where do these other gases come from? The water.

Nitrogen (N) and water

In the Tech Brief, Section 9, Memo WFC 428 Titled Reclaiming Our Air...For Healthy Living, Meyer does bring up nitrogen. Figure 9-1 diagram of Exhaust air reclaimer, figure 9-5 Diagram of Nitrogen Dioxide NO2

As far as recirculated exhaust gas goes, Meyers always talked about it being used to bring down the heat to that of gasoline, propane, natural gas ect...
One video he mentions that it would not be a good thing to melt pots and pans on the stove.

In my opinion, Meyer basically used hydrogen and oxygen, ionizing and destablizing these primary gases to get gnt. Any other gases were added to bring down the mixture to a useable level.

[Aaron]

nitrogen

Your claim is there is no nitrogen in the gas gun process.

It could very well be a LOT of bubbling of exhaust straight
into the water whether it is shown or not. Bedini has
1 machine spread over 3 patents and unless you can put
2 and 2 together, you will simply see each isolated patent
as a whole and completely miss the method of compartmentalizing
various concepts across various patents.

That gas gun patent I posted an except from CLEARLY SPELLS
OUT the combustible mix is oxygen, hydrogen and AMBIENT AIR GASSES.

How much ambient air? If it is a trace amount or it is a whole lot,
BOTH of those defeat the premise of your argument about it being
100% oxygen and hydrogen.

The amount of ambient gas coming up from the water is so incredibly
important that Meyer has ZERO controllable combustion without it!
How much exactly? Again, little or a lot defeats your claims 100%.
Fact of the matter is that it is there (ambient air) whether you like it
or not.

"The combustible gas mixture is composed of hydrogen,
oxygen and AMBIENT AIR GASES."

Patent #4,826,581 is one such gas gun patent that spells out the
combustible mix has the ambient air gases and you claimed the gas
gun has zero nitrogen involved. I've supported AND promoted your
efforts from the beginning and I have never seen you so blatantly
disregard the obvious.

@ALL, get this patent:
Controlled process for the ... - Google Patent Search

Read it for yourself and see what Meyer is saying.

Not only is ambient air involved with the hydrogen gun process, it is
so vitally important that Meyer repeatedly states throughout his multiple
patents that the nitrogen is responsible for allowing a CONTROLLED
release of energy and it isn't possible without it.

Straight HHO by itself gives "UNCONTROLLED" combustion that doesn't
release any THERMAL EXPLOSIVE ENERGY.

When people have no argument, they attack the person. So burn my
book and get your free btu's. You apparently will have to do that since
you won't be getting any BTU's out of water without the nitrogen.

[Aaron]

CONTROLLED release with nitrogen, uncontrolled without

In my opinion, Meyer basically used hydrogen and oxygen, ionizing and destablizing these primary gases to get gnt. Any other gases were added to bring down the mixture to a useable level.

That's right. Meyer's spells out in his patents in no uncertain terms that
if you want less thermal explosive energy, then increase the voltage to the
cell, get more HHO and reduce the ambient air amount.

Meyer also says that decreasing voltage and increasing ambient air will
give you that slow thermal CONTROLLED release.

With a browns gas flame, which is pretty much the UNCONTROLLED release
of hydrogen energy, you have to put the flame away from a heat conductor
or it could melt it. With the ambient air, the flame is such that you can put
a pan on a cooking stove burner with it - directly on the flame.

[Oneminde]

Thank you Aaron.

You have my support.

This is what I wrote some time back about the process. I am actually breaking a rule here by posting in this tread, don't expect me to do that many times ove rin teh future.

"If you look at the classical capacitor used in the WFC, he have borrowed some of the technology from that one and modified it slightly.
The first stage is that he ionizes ambient air, and this ambient air becomes positively charged – he removes electrons. He also uses returned water from the prior combustion as part of non-combustible gases, and this non-combustible gases contains N2 + H2O and maybe NO2 (but this must be measured). The combustion creates stable molecules.
Water + ionized gases + non-combustible gases is injected into the injector under pressur (125psi). There are nozzles in the injector, prior to the high voltage zone (plasma zone). The ejected water becomes only microns in size and will react quicly. The fine mist of water + ionized gases + non-combustible gases enters this high voltage field (strong electromagnetic field) and gets polarized and the electrons either get plucked off or elongated into an orbit further away (partiel ionization), and shortly there after or almost at the same time the ionized air also gets ejected inot this electromagnetic field. The ionized gas is starving since it have less electrons then it wants so it now pluck the “free” electron from hydrogen and the positive oxygen then becomes negatively charged or stable. This is a reaction where there is a creation of; atomic oxygen O+ + O- + H+ + H- + H2O + N2 is the reaction. But mostly atomic oxygen & atomic hydrogen + water + nitrogen is the reaction, there will be % of the other (ions) left over.
Whit this you create an unstable gas (molecules is in gas stages) and this highly unstable gas is energy rich (it have high energy potential). He mixes this highly potential gas with water so that the burn time is reduced. The ionized gas can only react as long as you have positive ions, when you have reached a stet where the positive ions is stable as atomic oxygen, it no longer reacts whit the water and ionize it, so only % of the reaction produces atomic fuel – the rest is ordinary water + nitrogen, and the water and nitrogen. The fuel is atomic gases which he mixes whit the water and nitrogen to slow the burn time, but the untreated water will be rapidly heated from compression and combustion phase and will also act as steam to aid in the combustion stroke since it expands when piston reduce the atmospheric pressure inside the combustion chamber.
There is a possibility that OH will form in % also, but this is difficult to calculate since everything will be in %, but surly, atomic oxygen & hydrogen + water + nitrogen IS the reaction."

NOW, go check that canadian patent on the injectors one more time - there you will see why Meyer ionized the oxygen...

[Farside]

..Just because the diagram doesn't show the nitrogen does NOT mean it isn't there....

What are you a lawyer or a poitician? Lol.

Yes you are correct. Afterall, you can't prove a negative.

Stans patent doesn't show that he uses baking soda either but it doesn't mean it isn't there, right? (no offense, I'm just making a light hearted stab ) We all know Nitrogen will be there somewhere, it's just how important of a role it plays, correct?

Seriously though, how about we all agree to disagree.

H2O and his band can build their engines on the principles laid out early on in this thread. The Nitrogen guys can carry on in their own thread and build their engines.

Hey here's an idea.
H20 has a deadline of 24 months from now to have his engine working.
How about we all agree on a date and place 24 months from now. We can get together and celebrate our successes and have a friendly competition to see who's engine works the best. The winner gets a bottle of Evian as a trophy. The wooden spoon trophy can be a bottle of used engine oil.

Seriously, wouldn't that be a great? Image if we had so many, using the two different principles that we couldn't find a winner?

[Aaron]

importance

We all know Nitrogen will be there somewhere, it's just how important of a role it plays, correct?

Importance? Meyer's tells exactly what the importance is. The nitrogen
is required to have a CONTROLLED release of thermal energy from the
hydrogen.

You're free to believe that isn't that important but we all know what
HHO by itself does... NO real thermal explosion. It is a "cold" quick burn
that just turns back into water immediately forming a vacuum negating
the expansion that is just caused.

[h20power]

Aaron your book is in the burn pile so I can at least get some free BTU's from it for that is all it is worth as there is no science in it from you for you don't know any.

I guess you want me to calculate all of the other gases also dissolved in 1 kg of water so you could get a clear picture of just what gases are flowing through the gas processor of the Hydrogen Gas Gun. But what about the other rocket system where he says it would take one tank of liquid hydrogen and another tank of liquid oxygen fed into the Gas Processor then burnt? Did Meyer just forget to say, "Oh and also a tank of liquid nitrogen, I almost forgot that one?" No he didn't, you Aaron are so quick to say Stanley Meyer is a lier is it isn't even funny. But you never truly answered the question, of where the nitrogen, in the amounts that other theory says are needed, for gnt are coming from to enter into the system? Is it the .03-.01 grams of nitrogen that are creating the gnt and all the other grams of hydrogen and oxygen are just wasted for they are clearly not needed?

Well I learned one thing here and that is you are not a man of science and in the future I must phase a question with no loop holes for like a lawyer you are looking for nothing but the loop holes ignoring any and everything else about the questions posed towards you. So you want me to say it, huh,

Yes there is a minute amount of nitrogen gas traveling through the gas processor of the Hydrogen Gas Gun.

There are you happy now did that make your day? You found a loop hole in the way I phased the question, but that loop hole didn't answer the question as per the amounts the other theory is calling for to have gnt.

The book is burning nicely in the fire with some interesting colors being given off. Would you like me to make a video of it?


h2opower.