Stanley Meyer Explained

[Tecstatic]

@TRON

OK, no hard feelings

Thank you for the PM and your work here.

Eric

[TRON]

fundamental questions...for all...

1. is there much of a difference between a 50% duty cycle square wave and a 1/2 sine wave when applied to the VIC or any other step up coil?

2. As far as the Gas Processor is concerned, when designing a high voltage pulsing source for the positive and negative electrodes, do we really need an exotic transformer like the VIC, with its tri-coil, segmented, pancake coil construction?
Or will a regular step up transformer work?

The reason i ask this is that i suppose many would like to know, and when we consider the dielectric strength of ambient air having a 17,000 VDC breakdown limit at a 1" gap... its not exactly a WFC with a small gap that requires amperage restriction to prevent arcing.

3. What is the resonant frequency of the GP for the ambient air between the inner cyl. and outer cyl.?

Inquiring Minds Want To Know...

[h20power]

1. Yes, a very sharp or abrupt change has a very different magnetic
field collaps. You will not get a shark tooth wave form from a sin wave. Remember the VIC works when the pulse terminates.
2. A regular transformer might work but it will be a lot larger is size compared to the VIC transformer. This is due to how the VIC transformer actrually works for unlike a typical step-up transformer it makes it's high voltage with capacitive reactance much like a police tazor. Plus the magnetic amp restriction of the chokes will be missing. You can get more volts in the GP if the amps are restricted. A Tesla coil hooked up to the GP will more than likely arc than produce a corona discharge as voltages might need to go as high as 90 kV.
3. That, the individual builder has to figure out based on his/her design. More than likely the GP will have to be built first and then matched to a VIC for whatever frequency the disigner has in mind to use. Mine will be close to 50k Hz as I can get it.

h2opower.

[HairBear]

What is the minimum voltage level to ionize hydrogen and/or oxygen atoms?

[h20power]

What is the minimum voltage level to ionize hydrogen and/or oxygen atoms?

About 10.5 kV will produce a corona discharge, but the space betwen the elctrodes make a big difference. Run a search on corona discharges too learn more, as the value I quoted is from a MIT video I posted in this thread.

Hope that helps,


h2opower.

[TRON]

Another 2 general questions for H20power

Does the PLL circuit as designed in figures 2-12 have application to the water fuel injectors VIC's? or to the GP VIC?




the way i see it:
Gas Processor feeds ambient air with a huge positive charge to a nylon (ungrounded) mixing manifold where water vapor (fine mist) and exhaust gases are combined in the desired amounts. This mixture goes to the injector in a single plastic (ungrounded) tube and is given the final zap to produce the highly energized atomic structure that prevents the formation of the water molecule on combustion, the resulting decay of the hydrogen atom and or oxygen atom and the increased power.

the exhaust has a collection and cooling chamber where the water is collected and reused in the main supply tank

this system additionally cleans the ambient air going in and the result is an increase in environmental air quality

I dont believe there are sufficient temperatures involved to produce the NOX that the AQMD hates so much, and that this system also (because of the EEC at the GP) doesnt allow ozone creation or its related pollution in our environment!

Am i close to seeing the big picture?

[Oneminde]

Notification.

Hi guys. I have been away for sometime, and moste of this reason is becous h2opower banned me, but there are still some that get my posts so here we go.

There have been some thoughts about the engine configurations, and i am not talking about the GP, WFC, WFI or any other device, what i am talking about this time is what happens inside the engine. Now, Meyer did not leave much of that behind for us to investigate in so ones again we are left on our own, so lets see what we can do whit that.

Firts of, we know that HHO makes a large bang for the buck and we know that H2 can be used as a medium in a combustion. Now before i move on whit my topic, lets look at something similar - the BMW Hydrogen 7.
I have some information on that that will illuminate your mind further.

BMW - Hydrogen Combustion Engine w/ direct high pressure injection.

Now one fact that we can look at is that hydrogen molecules are among the smalest in the world, forget LPG, they are much larger molecules and for that reason, H2 and LPG will atc differently. Moste people running on HHO have problems, and i for one dont think that the problem is the energy content. I have tryed HHO nad it have enough power to do work, o the problem may be something ells.
BMW Group did discover this and probably Meyer to. So first question is why no one have debated it before?

Now, Meyer did not use high presure injector like BMW, he used another tehcnic, so lets see what we can understand from that. Lets presume that we know the injector and how it works (have been covered), what next.
Now, this is going to be an assumption and nothing ells at the moment.

A good friend of me did a test whit pure hydrogen gas in an ordenary ICE (gasoline) and he did not get a combustion phase, of curse he used ambient air so dont get smart here
He claimed that the hydrogen gas gets lost in the compression phase, it disapears between the piston rings. So a fast conclution here is that a normal gasoline powered engine whant work whit this setup. The diesel engine is different, they are made for high pressure so that is the next step, byt any way, how to proseed now?

Well, we hade a debate about it and this is what we came up whit;

Him: If what i haw read is true, Meyer somethimes did not have sucess whit running he's WV engine.

Me:??... aaahh.. yes, i'v heard that, dont knwo why exactly, but we are talking about a prototype after ll so..

Him; I started a test on a standard engine and i can assure you that the hydrogen gas is lost, and for that reason, BMW developed a specific injector and system for hydrogen. The problem is that in the compression phase, the hydrogen gas disapears - behinde the piston rings and true the valvs. You have a combustion, but not enogh to run the engine on a basic setup. For that reason BMW use a direct injection instead of a pre mixture of fuels, similar to Meyer.
Me: BMW use H2 gas and ambient air similar to gasoline engines - so ther must be soem changes to the piston rings or other parts (this was before i know about the article abow)... then he send me the article posted first.


Him; I now understand how BMW use the H2 gas in the combustion.
They inject the hydrogen some degrees before TDC and when the air have been heated of the pressure, similar to the diesel engine - this is the reason why they dont lose the H2 gas. We need to remember that gasoline have large molecules, this will not have the same effect as hydrogen gas and also gasoline and diesel is in a liquid state (vapor - smal droplets).
So i have an important question for ya.
Did Meyer use a normal compression phase whit fuel mixture or did he use vacuum and then inject the fuel mixture?.. understand my question?, becouse if Meyer used vacuum, that whould make sence.

Me; For what i know, Meyer used a normal compression strocke/phase, but i dont know, he did not mention this much at all that i know of. I think we nee to think about this and how he did it.

Him; Becouse as you know, besides H2, ionized air is also present together whit the water vapor. If vacuum is present, the water vapor will trun into steam upon entering, similar to the Water Manipulition Engine. This makes sence, becouse injector also send ionize air - if the engine compress air, what is the sence of using ionized air?
If Meyer closed the inlet valv in the manifoild, this whould create vacumm upon the down strocke phase. The injector send the fuelmixtur into a vacuum chamber and the water is transformed into steam and also finaly breakes up the H2O molecule into hydrogen and oxygen and this now becomes the fuel which will burn when ignited. The VIC can laso work as a plasma transformer.. hmm, makes sence i think.
Remember that Meyer did not write everything in he's patents

We need to investigate into this, if vacuum is used in Meyer's engine. The manipulition egnine work towards this solution. Maybe when the pre-charged water passes the HV field inside the injector and upon entering the vacuum, this makes the intire breake up sycle that Myer talked about.. hmm?

The vacuum is present before the fuel mixture is injected and not when the fuel is burned, this might actually help the process. The inlet valve is open, but ambient air is not a part of the process. The air for said combustion comes from the injector, the ionize air is used for combustion.
If vacuum is present when the water is injectod, there is no resitance, it breaks. If ambient air is presented, you have a dielectric inside the cylinder and the reaction whant start. I think it is good to start a test on this!

Is this writen on the forum?

Me; NO

Him; Hmm, can be good to present this problem/solution then.. becouse i think it have a sence. The final process is similar to BMW, but you instead create H2 inside the cylinder.

Me; I Think we are on to something here...

End of debate

So - guys, what do you think. You are free to debate about this. To bad that h2opower misses thsi as he have baned me

[TRON]

the timing process for Stans VW

a regularly aspirated engine controls power with the regular throttle (VW)
by controlling oxygen, you control heat. or power.
a carburetor works like this... the volume of the piston stroke does not change...but the amount of fuel drawn into the carb is determined by the CFM allowed past the butterfly...and it happens to always be roughly 14 to1 ratio for correct temperature and power curve through the rpm range.

Now, replace the fuel being drawn in to the engine (eliminate the gasoline) and keep the ratio of fuel to throttle position constant.

This was the job of the "Laser Accelerator" a device on the end of a gas pedal cable that moved along with the carburetor throttle butterfly, and in direct proportion with it...when the butterfly is closed, the "laser accelerator" has a very narrow pulse ( 10% duty cycle for a given/fixed frequency pulse)
this is IDLE CONDITION.
likewise, when the butterfly on the carb(no gasoline) is at Wide Open Throttle, the laser Accelerator (because its tied to the throttle cable) is at 95 or 100% pulse width or duty cycle.

The analog voltage from figures 3 and 4 is set to go from (experiment with this value) maybe 2 VDC to 12 VDC... this is the basis of all WATER FUEL produced because the volume of gasses are in proportion to the VIC secondary voltages ( with the PLL sending the proper frequency and all that)

Now as relates to the BMW ENGINE:

the air coming in to the engine through the intake valves is not what controls the engine speed... the amount of Hydrogen/IonizedOxygen coming in from the INJECTORS is what controls the speed of the engine.. the job of the carb is to provide enough air to keep those pistons moving... there is too much volume of air going through an engine to have it all pass through an injector.

I believe that the LASER DISTRIBUTOR had 4 photosensors tied to 4 solenoids, one for each injector.(The laser/photosensors in that additional part he added to the distributor were what control the timing of the injections)

The timing or relationship of the solenoid to the timing of the regular high current spark was adjustable both by rotating the distributor and by rotating the plate inside the distributor that had the photosensors mounted on it. In this way the HO fuel could be injected at TDC into the taper cavity, finish processing into the fuel mixture by 2 degrees ATDC and send the regular ignition spark into the injector at 5 degrees ATDC to ignite the prepared mixture. or any combination of engine and injector timing could be configured for fine tuning...all done by simple rotation of both the internal rotating base plate and the entire distributor.

remember the distributor still has a regular rotor and points to fire the regular ignition coil, theres just a section added in between the points plate and the cap to add functionality/control to the system

this way there is no loss of hydrogen past the piston rings because the fuel is sent in just before it is exploded and well after TDC...remember hydrogen burns 600 times faster than gasoline.

the Gas Processor is only a preliminary stage to allow a very quick reaction inside the taper fuel injector and an even quicker explosion in the combustion chamber.but a very important stage, because it is the energy provider.

this water fuel does not go into the piston chamber through the manifold because it would take too long, and would escape past the rings during compression. and the battery negative would supply electrons to the mixture well in advance of combustion allowing an undoing or cancellation of what the gas processor just accomplished... the mixture would stabilize and the oxygen, nitrogen, etc would go back to stable state, resulting in a loss of reaction.... the GP and water mist MUST pass into the engine through an electrically isolated plastic high pressure line and enter ONLY through the injector taper cavity. this is how you control the reaction... and the engine speed.

how does the injector overcome the high pressures in the piston chamber???

most compression gauges show engines working at around 150 -175 PSI compression at TDC !, but what is the pressure in a cylinder at 5 degrees After Top Dead Center?
probably around 90 lbs, just enough pressure on the injector pump to overcome the cylinder pressure upon injection, but enough pressure so that there's not a vacuum condition... if there were a vacuum, the water/ oxygen/ exhaust, mixture wouldn't stay in the taper zone for processing long enough...

so if you build the control circuitry i believe stan had 3 VIC coils one for the GP and one for each pair of opposing cylinders, this allowed enough time to build up capacitive charges for the alternating shots of opposed injectors on each VIC

also, i think the Injector VIC coils were on continuously, not passing through the rotor cap of the distributor... think about it... if the VIC is designed to provide High Voltage without AMP INFLUXING to prevent arcing inside the taper cavity, then how was the electricity supposed to jump that rotor/cap gap? the last time i looked inside a distributor cap, the rotor doesnt actually touch the brass contacts as it passes by... but if he superimposed the regular, high current sparking coil on top of the VIC signel, to allow the Taper Injector to also function as a Spark Plug at 5 degrees ATDC then he would continue to use the distributor and regular ignition coil for the ignition of the fuel, just like a gasoline engine!

I suppose the VIC would have microwave oven diodes protecting it from the regular ignition coil and the same for the IGN coil, it would need protection from the VIC... since they both share a spark plug wire to the Injector center electrode!

it looks very much like THIS iS the ONLY way to do it....

[gpssonar]

Does anyone know what q14 and q15 are on the fig. 8 drawing?

[h20power]

Does anyone know what q14 and q15 are on the fig. 8 drawing?

If you ask me they look like another darlington transistor, but others can help more like bussi04. But it does look like a darlington transistor to me.

[tutanka]

a regularly aspirated engine controls power with the regular throttle (VW)
by controlling oxygen, you control heat. or power.
a carburetor works like this... the volume of the piston stroke does not change...but the amount of fuel drawn into the carb is determined by the CFM allowed past the butterfly...and it happens to always be roughly 14 to1 ratio for correct temperature and power curve through the rpm range.

Now, replace the fuel being drawn in to the engine (eliminate the gasoline) and keep the ratio of fuel to throttle position constant.

This was the job of the "Laser Accelerator" a device on the end of a gas pedal cable that moved along with the carburetor throttle butterfly, and in direct proportion with it...when the butterfly is closed, the "laser accelerator" has a very narrow pulse ( 10% duty cycle for a given/fixed frequency pulse)
this is IDLE CONDITION.
likewise, when the butterfly on the carb(no gasoline) is at Wide Open Throttle, the laser Accelerator (because its tied to the throttle cable) is at 95 or 100% pulse width or duty cycle.

The analog voltage from figures 3 and 4 is set to go from (experiment with this value) maybe 2 VDC to 12 VDC... this is the basis of all WATER FUEL produced because the volume of gasses are in proportion to the VIC secondary voltages ( with the PLL sending the proper frequency and all that)

Now as relates to the BMW ENGINE:

the air coming in to the engine through the intake valves is not what controls the engine speed... the amount of Hydrogen/IonizedOxygen coming in from the INJECTORS is what controls the speed of the engine.. the job of the carb is to provide enough air to keep those pistons moving... there is too much volume of air going through an engine to have it all pass through an injector.

I believe that the LASER DISTRIBUTOR had 4 photosensors tied to 4 solenoids, one for each injector.(The laser/photosensors in that additional part he added to the distributor were what control the timing of the injections)

The timing or relationship of the solenoid to the timing of the regular high current spark was adjustable both by rotating the distributor and by rotating the plate inside the distributor that had the photosensors mounted on it. In this way the HO fuel could be injected at TDC into the taper cavity, finish processing into the fuel mixture by 2 degrees ATDC and send the regular ignition spark into the injector at 5 degrees ATDC to ignite the prepared mixture. or any combination of engine and injector timing could be configured for fine tuning...all done by simple rotation of both the internal rotating base plate and the entire distributor.

remember the distributor still has a regular rotor and points to fire the regular ignition coil, theres just a section added in between the points plate and the cap to add functionality/control to the system

this way there is no loss of hydrogen past the piston rings because the fuel is sent in just before it is exploded and well after TDC...remember hydrogen burns 600 times faster than gasoline.

the Gas Processor is only a preliminary stage to allow a very quick reaction inside the taper fuel injector and an even quicker explosion in the combustion chamber.but a very important stage, because it is the energy provider.

this water fuel does not go into the piston chamber through the manifold because it would take too long, and would escape past the rings during compression. and the battery negative would supply electrons to the mixture well in advance of combustion allowing an undoing or cancellation of what the gas processor just accomplished... the mixture would stabilize and the oxygen, nitrogen, etc would go back to stable state, resulting in a loss of reaction.... the GP and water mist MUST pass into the engine through an electrically isolated plastic high pressure line and enter ONLY through the injector taper cavity. this is how you control the reaction... and the engine speed.

how does the injector overcome the high pressures in the piston chamber???

most compression gauges show engines working at around 150 -175 PSI compression at TDC !, but what is the pressure in a cylinder at 5 degrees After Top Dead Center?
probably around 90 lbs, just enough pressure on the injector pump to overcome the cylinder pressure upon injection, but enough pressure so that there's not a vacuum condition... if there were a vacuum, the water/ oxygen/ exhaust, mixture wouldn't stay in the taper zone for processing long enough...

so if you build the control circuitry i believe stan had 3 VIC coils one for the GP and one for each pair of opposing cylinders, this allowed enough time to build up capacitive charges for the alternating shots of opposed injectors on each VIC

also, i think the Injector VIC coils were on continuously, not passing through the rotor cap of the distributor... think about it... if the VIC is designed to provide High Voltage without AMP INFLUXING to prevent arcing inside the taper cavity, then how was the electricity supposed to jump that rotor/cap gap? the last time i looked inside a distributor cap, the rotor doesnt actually touch the brass contacts as it passes by... but if he superimposed the regular, high current sparking coil on top of the VIC signel, to allow the Taper Injector to also function as a Spark Plug at 5 degrees ATDC then he would continue to use the distributor and regular ignition coil for the ignition of the fuel, just like a gasoline engine!

I suppose the VIC would have microwave oven diodes protecting it from the regular ignition coil and the same for the IGN coil, it would need protection from the VIC... since they both share a spark plug wire to the Injector center electrode!

it looks very much like THIS iS the ONLY way to do it....

Question is if Meyer system use normal air .. sometimes h2opower ask about water manipulation motor YouTube - Water Manipulation Motor - the details (2 of 2).. this engine have an special chambre that contain aspirated and compressed heated air and work in vacuum mode for obtain fast hydrogen reaction inside combustion chambre. In normal engines you don't have special chambre with valve as to see in youtube video, in this way from inlet manifold meyer system use and compress air like BMW? But if you use normal air from inlet manifold the effect of ionized air must be cancelled because all mixture is mixed toghter?? For your info .. I have analized completely an standard 4 stroke engine, this have some problems of lost H2 from guide of valves and from rings of piston when engine is cold. I'm sure that vacuum is important for obtain fast and completely reaction inside engine.. as you know air is used also as dieletric into capacitor.. if you have air compressed into engine start an properly reaction is very difficult.. Thanks for your reply.. Regards

[h20power]

I guess you are trying to figure out just how I merged the two water for fuel technologies. To do so you are going to have to take all the chemistry classes for a full understanding the said gases is needed to fully understand just how to merge the two technologies.

First you have to ask the right questions like, "What is the purpose of the 500 degree air chamber in Albert Bowes design?" and "What is the heated chambers overall roll in the system?"
First answer is at 500 degrees hydrogen in the presense of oxygen will flash or explode. So it is in a way performing the same job as a sparkplug providing a source of ignition. Second answer is to maintain an smooth engine performances one would have to take control of the air tempretures more precisely due to the incoming air tempertures would far too unpredictable, for cold starts, and when the engine is cold or to say before the engine reaches the proper operating temperture. This way the engine car opperate independently of outside air tempertures.

To understand Albert Bowes system you have to understand fully the phase diagram of water and gas law science (PV=nRT). If there are any gaps in your edjucation you won't be able to understand it very well or if at all. Now trying to add in Stanley Meyers technology requires a good understanding of chemistry, physics, and how Stanley Meyers system works. If you have gaps in your understanding on any one of those more than likely you won't understand how to do so very well even if told the answer by someone else. I will not go over what I am doing with the two mens water for fuel technologies for most wouldn't understand it and it would confuse others just trying to get a grasp on Meyers technologies.
I know it didn't answer all of your questions but it really wasn't ment to do so just to point you in the right direction and stress the importants of a well rounded edjucation.

h2opower.

Question is if Meyer system use normal air .. sometimes h2opower ask about water manipulation motor YouTube - Water Manipulation Motor - the details (2 of 2).. this engine have an special chambre that contain aspirated and compressed heated air and work in vacuum mode for obtain fast hydrogen reaction inside combustion chambre. In normal engines you don't have special chambre with valve as to see in youtube video, in this way from inlet manifold meyer system use and compress air like BMW? But if you use normal air from inlet manifold the effect of ionized air must be cancelled because all mixture is mixed toghter?? For your info .. I have analized completely an standard 4 stroke engine, this have some problems of lost H2 from guide of valves and from rings of piston when engine is cold. I'm sure that vacuum is important for obtain fast and completely reaction inside engine.. as you know air is used also as dieletric into capacitor.. if you have air compressed into engine start an properly reaction is very difficult.. Thanks for your reply.. Regards

[tutanka]

I guess you are trying to figure out just how I merged the two water for fuel technologies. To do so you are going to have to take all the chemistry classes for a full understanding the said gases is needed to fully understand just how to merge the two technologies.

First you have to ask the right questions like, "What is the purpose of the 500 degree air chamber in Albert Bowes design?" and "What is the heated chambers overall roll in the system?"
First answer is at 500 degrees hydrogen in the presense of oxygen will flash or explode. So it is in a way performing the same job as a sparkplug providing a source of ignition. Second answer is to maintain an smooth engine performances one would have to take control of the air tempretures more precisely due to the incoming air tempertures would far too unpredictable, for cold starts, and when the engine is cold or to say before the engine reaches the proper operating temperture. This way the engine car opperate independently of outside air tempertures.

To understand Albert Bowes system you have to understand fully the phase diagram of water and gas law science (PV=nRT). If there are any gaps in your edjucation you won't be able to understand it very well or if at all. Now trying to add in Stanley Meyers technology requires a good understanding of chemistry, physics, and how Stanley Meyers system works. If you have gaps in your understanding on any one of those more than likely you won't understand how to do so very well even if told the answer by someone else. I will not go over what I am doing with the two mens water for fuel technologies for most wouldn't understand it and it would confuse others just trying to get a grasp on Meyers technologies.
I know it didn't answer all of your questions but it really wasn't ment to do so just to point you in the right direction and stress the importants of a well rounded edjucation.

h2opower.

[h20power]

But it is a question of edjucation, Albert Bowes water for fuel technology is based on PV=nRT and the phase diagram of water aswell as other properties of water. His technology focuses on the laten heat properties of water a thermo expansion as it absorbs the heat of the reaction and expands. Meyers is based on the dielectric proprties of water and air with a primary focuse on oxygen. In his earlyer works he focused on upsetting the natrual equilibrium of water with the WFC. Later he found out that what is a capacitor of sorts all on it's own and as a capacitor it will only take around 20 kV before it exibits a sort of breakdown and splits. Those are two totally different ways of breaking down the water molecule that Meyer figured out and now I know it too and hopefully with this thread others also know.

I have been a mechanic since 1986 finished most of my studies in engineering in 1995 and I loved to race and built race engines. So for me it was easy to combine the two technologies. But I don't expect others to understand this do I don't teach it. If you and others would show more understanding of Meyer technology perhaps I would but not too many show understanding so to keep it simple I only show Meyer's work. But if you must know the only differance is water mist used to absorb the heat of the reaction of ionized oxygen atoms, and hydrogen atoms produced from the injectors. How I am going about it I leave to the imaginations of the masses.

h2opower.

[bussi04]

Does anyone know what q14 and q15 are on the fig. 8 drawing?

those 2 are no darlingtons (in darlingtons the emitter output of the first bipolar transistor connects to the base input of the following bipolar transistor), they are FET-transistors used as analog switches. with reference to post #1018 last pic you see a rectangle with control in/out out/in twice. this meta-symbol describes the functionality of q14 and q15 in FIG 8. the control input is connected to the 2 digital NOR-gates (digital inverters).

those 2 FETs are standard types, no high-amp necessary.

q15 gets an inverted control signal in relation to q14. so q14 is on or q15 is on and never are both q14 and q15 on and never both are off at the same time.

so one time the resistor array 400k/10k/10nF from pin 13 of the PLL CD 4046B is switched to pin 9 of the PLL, the other time the resistor array 678 / 393 ohms is connected to pin 13 of the PLL (please read post #1104 again)

maybe these 2 FETs switch between linear frequency up and down scanning condition of the NE 555 and phase lock frequency condition when resonance is detected. one of them is connected to the PLL input pin 9 at a time.

hope that helps a bit,

greetings
bussi04