Stanley Meyer Explained

[bussi04]

solution for SM fig. 4 point J

Hi Bussi,

Nice PCB improvement from sm6

Eric

@tecstatic

thank you, now I can really handle KiCad thanks to your valuable tips

@all

there is an outstanding task for integration of frequency to voltage conversion as substitute for SM fig. 4. Point "J" seems to be a variable frequency source that has to be changed to linear voltage between 0V and Vbatt.

I have found LM 2907 http://www.national.com/ds/LM/LM2907.pdf

[Tecstatic]

Hi Bussi,

Nice PCB improvement from sm6

Eric

[bussi04]

freedom circuit rev 0.6 released

[email protected]

[h20power]

Hi Everyone,

Well, just as I was going to start on the drawings for the injector modifications today and my PC is down. Oh well, guess I have to wait some before I can get started.
@ Bussi04, package received, need time to go over it, and I will get started on finding a solution for #4 circuit.

@ Atom_miser, Thanks for the site, I will look into it once my PC is up and running again.

Okay Everyone, I will be in and out until I get by PC up and running again.

h2opower.

[adam_mizer]

hey there H2OPower and team.
Great thread and posts been following it for, well its been a long time.

"if the Automotive sector jumped on board, but for now it would be easier to get a glass of ice water in hell than to get them to leave the oil industry."

There are a few people in the industry that have some ideas of being able to use different fuels in todays automobiles.
Rewriting the software information contained in the ECU's PCM's or whatever is one place you'll need to deal with.

I'm sure they are waiting for something solid, having that information they can adjust the parameters of the onboard equipment.
Take a look at Volo Performance, Dynamic Soft-Flash Performance Chip.
www.voloperformance.com.

Reprogramming the computer can take lots of dollars for the various OBD protocols. These guy's designed these flash-chips and cover all the sensors and those problem areas so the automobile can use hydroxy.
Have a very strong feeling if your idea based on Meyer methods is going to work you will need something like this Soft-Flash to make it work on various automobiles.
So far this is the most reasonable chip I have seen professionally done.

You may want to contact these people and see if its feasable that they rewrite a new Soft-Flash, but there must be some solidified data that is needed for the program and equipment to work hand in hand.

Don't know what others would do for you but I have found it sure doesn't hurt to ask some questions!

Hope this information is within your context here.

keep on truckin guys, great job so far.

[h20power]

H20....I'm thinking since according to your post that the spark is not needed for a diesel engine then one could eliminate the water spark plug for an external larger unit that would be feed into the intake right before it enters the engine.

Also there is no need to eliminate or change the injectors as all one would have to do is allow fuel (preferably bio-diesel) to cycle through the injector pump and not through the injectors, just send it back to the tank on the already there return line, this keeps the pump lubricated so if one wanted to once again burn fuel they could do so. The injectors would just be opening and closing somewhat dry, I don't think this would be a problem as long as bio-diesel was present. Bio-diesel has huge lubricating values way beyond normal diesel fuel alone. Besides injectors can get air and not squirt any fuel, does not hurt the injector, it just does not fire on that injector until you bleed it.



So if what I am saying is true, which I believe it is, then your unit would be much simplified for use in diesels....24

Hi 24,

I am not sure that would work as the injectors Meyer had made he did so with diesel engines in mind. The voltage zone in the injectors break down the water molecules in yet another way different than the way the WFC works. Like the video says you just need some hydrogen in the system for the reaction to take place. Adding on the gas processor would give Albert Bow's technology a big boost in performance. Adding in the water fuel injectors makes hydrogen far better than what is shown in the video is doing. The injectors would have to be remade with the lubricating properties of water in mind and so too would the pump to the injectors. Water does lubricate but it has to be design properly for it to do so. That means all the materials have to be correct for water use, and the tolerances so nothing burns up.

A lot of what you talk about just needs to be tested out to see if it will work or not, no easy answer for a lot of that you posted. But the injectors have to have the voltage zones to break down the water molecule. But remember the phase diagram of water comes into play big time with diesel engines so you can get it to turn into a vapor immediately after it was injected into the combustion chamber. That is the part where he talks about the temperature of the water being 90 degrees C, for this way the water does all the work to aid in breaking it down and utilizing it as the next great fuel source for humanity. The diesel engines seem to be the best choice, followed by the rotary engine.

I will work with what I got for the moment in trying to convert the VW engines to run on water, once I get that done then I will try other types of vehicles. Working with water is a bit different than working with fossil fuels. The hard part about a lot of these conversions will be the vehicles CPU and other electronic engine management controls as accessing the CPU on a new car would be impossible for they just wont sell you the cable that goes to it let alone the software so you could access the CPU and make changes to. The task at hand is a hard one and would go a lot smoother if the Automotive sector jumped on board, but for now it would be easier to get a glass of ice water in hell than to get them to leave the oil industry.


h2opower.

[1NRG24Seven]

H20....I'm thinking since according to your post that the spark is not needed for a diesel engine then one could eliminate the water spark plug for an external larger unit that would be feed into the intake right before it enters the engine.

Also there is no need to eliminate or change the injectors as all one would have to do is allow fuel (preferably bio-diesel) to cycle through the injector pump and not through the injectors, just send it back to the tank on the already there return line, this keeps the pump lubricated so if one wanted to once again burn fuel they could do so. The injectors would just be opening and closing somewhat dry, I don't think this would be a problem as long as bio-diesel was present. Bio-diesel has huge lubricating values way beyond normal diesel fuel alone. Besides injectors can get air and not squirt any fuel, does not hurt the injector, it just does not fire on that injector until you bleed it.

So if what I am saying is true, which I believe it is, then your unit would be much simplified for use in diesels....24

[h20power]

Another question H20,

Will your unit here work with diesel engines, reason I ask is as you know diesels have no electrical ignition systems nor spark plugs. Was wanting to know that... and if it would , would that require modifying the injectors/ and or heads to use said water spark plug.. thanks...24

From the SMTB
Exposing the expelling "laser-primed" and "electrically charged" combustible gas ions (exiting from
Gas Resonant Cavity) to a thermal-spark or heat-zone causes thermal gas-ignition, releasing thermal
explosive energy (gmt) beyond the Gas-Flame Stage, as illustrated in Figure (1-19) as to (1-18). { What this is saying is the mixture can be either spark or heat ignited to set off the reaction.}

With diesel engines the injectors have to be made as I don't think an add on will cut it for a diesel engine due to the high compression ratio. But diesel engine have this advantage: YouTube - The Water Manipulation Motor - Introduction (1 of 2) YouTube - Water Manipulation Motor - the details (2 of 2)
Through known physics the air can be manipulated, and adding that on to what Stanley Meyer did makes a diesel engine the engine of choice if you ask me. But the conversion will cost a bit more but there is more you can do with a diesel engine than you could with a standard gasoline engine. For in a diesel engine it would not be necessary to convert all of the water into hydrogen and oxygen and if you played with it enough you would find a happy medium of just enough water/hydrogen ratio would be needed with the gas processor doing it's thing to the incoming air supply. I think it would be easy to make sure no NOx's are produced in a diesel engine conversion if you took your time with the water/hydrogen ratios. For the most part a diesel engine would be turned into a steam engine.

Now in the way the WFC's work you must have the right circuitry to go along with it, one with an EEC in it. I posted the chemical breakdown of the reaction to show that it is very different than Dr. Faraday's method for the break down of the water molecule.

As for me getting a profit think of it this way, if I don't have to pay for energy ever again is that not profit enough? Just think of the freedom that gives me with my life, I can drive where ever I want and pay no one a dim ( except for toll charges) and the energy for my home will be bill free ( well in my state until they change the laws the power company from who's power gird system I put power in, will have to pay me the far market rate for doing so). Think of the freedom that gives a person, road trips would be back in business, power outages would be a thing of the past, and if you use the technology to sow the land and make your own food, just think of the possibilities. That is what this technology does, gives a person back full control over their lives and that my friend is payment enough. The greedy can't see things like these as they are blinded by the very system they seek to escape from, trapped in a never ending quest for more.

I hope that helps some,

h2opower.

[1NRG24Seven]

Another question H20,

Will your unit here work with diesel engines, reason I ask is as you know diesels have no electrical ignition systems nor spark plugs. Was wanting to know that... and if it would , would that require modifying the injectors/ and or heads to use said water spark plug.. thanks...24

[1NRG24Seven]

Thanx H20, I was wondering about that but was not sure if Stan completly eliminated the tube sets, I was thinking there was a canister of tubes on top of the dune buggy vid I have and it was also incorperating the water spark plug, but again was not sure, so thank you for clearing that up for me. And as far as a double distributor I can not tell in this old vid I was speaking of as the pic is cut off. I used to have a Mazda RX7 with duel point ignition distributor, could Stan have used something like duel points maybe? just inquistive here....24

[1NRG24Seven]

Here is my you tube video showing a 1000ml (1Liter) lab beaker using a fullwave Bridge rectifier and a cap across the +/- DC legs of that FWBR and then to the Nickle anode/cathode in the beaker. I think If I recall doing this both off the grid Ac and then hooked it up off of a 750 watt power inverter running off a 12 volt auto battery... Up here in Eastern Oregon the voltage rectified through a cap is not as high as it was in Portland Oregon, so this circuit is between 140-148VDC when running on grid power and even lower going through the power inverter and battery. This was drawing about 2.45 amps after it ran awhile and heated up the solution to around 200 deg F. Originally, I built this to produce heat and knew its bi-product was HHO. My goal was to produce more heat then what was said to be possible with input wattage, and did this to my satisfaction many times. But then came across the HHO technology soon after and was thinking if I routed the HHO production back to the bottom of the beaker and burned it, that would then increase heat production even further, just never did that yet. So I was going down a different path with all of this and now realize its all connected or very similar. I would love to run my truck on water but its diesel and uses no spark plugs. I would really like to use this technology to build a welding unit that was portable off the back of my truck to repair cast Iron parts that break for farmers. I used a HHO welder back in 1989 and was blown away by what one can do with such a device. We were fussing metal bolts into glass plates and rocks...it would weld aluminum to steel even. But all these technology are all pretty much the same. That is why I think this thread is so important on many levels. Once H2opower and other here in cooperation crack this baby the possibilities are endless. So I completely support you all and thank H20power in particular for keeping with the spirit of open forum so that all may benefit, and that is a hard thing to do when one has so many hours invested and money expended. I have no doubt H20power will have no problem to still profit from this in his own way. I have found that the reality is that when you freely give information out that few will ever listen, its funny how people think. So I have found personally that when you hold onto it people then are motivated to take it away, freely give it and they think its worthless hehehe, it really is true. In realizing this I find I don't have to walk in fear of losing something, I am still free to build it and sell it and profit from it, and no corporation will steal it as its not patented and everyone has access to the information. They want to keep it secret to make sure only they can make it. Greed is a funny animal that works against us more then we will probably ever know.....24

YouTube - High Voltage HHO Cell

[h20power]

Hi H20... I will not quote the whole "Coil" post of your here as it is large, But what about the spark plug Ignition coils...I was just this morning watching an Old Google Video I downloaded a few years back that had four still shots of the dune buggy motor close ups of of different componants, like one clip was showing a close up of the water spark plug, the one I wanted to mention here that caught my attention was what I believed was a clip showing the coil setup for the ignition as it had the same blue spark plug wire comming off it to the center of the rotor cap for the distributor...this pic looked like two automotive coils side by side all white in a white holder. Now im thinking it would be possible to take the output from one standard auto coil and input it into another increasing the voltages way up there....I was thinking maybe more up in the voltage ranges of lightning...this would make the spark a very high voltage plasma. I have not tried this yet was just wondering if anyone else has....seems also at those higher voltages the distributor cap would be arching all over the place unless it could be modified, again just thinking out loud here, hope thats ok.

Good Day...24

Hi 24,

For this I would have to take a good look at the modifications Meyer's made to the distributor as I think he made it a two rotor system sharing the same shaft. One was always in direct contact with the voltage zones and the other was just the normal system found on the car. I would need to look at it closely to see just what he did there. But from the Dyodon vids I can tell he modified them greatly as the one shown does not come with the car.


h2opower.

[h20power]

Hi H20...

I don't know if you covered this in the thread yet and if you have I may have missed it.

Q. What Metal are you using for the tubes?...If SS what grade and dimensions. SS tube around these dimensions is expensive stuff, I'm thinking the same rule would hold that the more one buys the cheaper it gets.

Now as far as my own experiments, I have concluded that its the Nickle content in the Stainless that seems to produce more gas, in fact in one of my you tube videos I use a pure Nickle anode and a pure Nickle cathode flat plates. These two flat plates are made from one anode purchased from a jewlers supply for electroplating. They measure 1" x 6" x 3/32" thick. That one anode was then slit in two ...lengthwise making two 1/2" x 6" x 3/32" pieces. The voltage is around 140VDC if I recall in that video and not pulsed. The HHO coming off makes the water look as though its violently boiling even though the surface area of both plates is a total of 6 square inches, very small. In my first video showing the long tube cell using 316 SS wire coils...a coil within a coil (this was my idea to try and make a Stan Meyer tube out of coiled wire instead of solid to increase surface area) We used a modified Stan Meyer Circuit to give us more tuning variables and a wider range. The circuit worked great for our experiments. When the cell hit resonance it had a very peculiar high pitch ring to it if you placed an ear close to the tube, our frequency reading at that point went all over the place as it seemed to confuse the meter. But the Nickle cell I am going to guess here by observation as I have yet to get a liter per minute test off it, was several times greater than the SS cell in gas output. But one other thing we have not yet included in the Stan Meyer circuit was the ability to pass a higher voltages, which my Nickle cell does. I will double the voltage of the Nickle cell to around 280VDC and see what happens. I think Stan's was between 200-600VDC output adjustable.

I know many internet sites claim Stan used I think it was 304 SS if I recall correctly, whatever it was I looked up it Nickle content and was one of the higher ones for SS. But seems to me Stan only claimed it was a special alloy for the tubes in his patents, again could be wrong as I have not read all 40+ patents. That is the only reason I have not tried duplicating the Stan Meyer tubes yet as I would be using Nickle and the cost is several times that of SS.

Anyway just some of my thinking out loud here.

Have a great day....24

Hi 24,

I will not be making any tube sets, for Meyer stopped using them, so why would I try and use them. Anyway the way the WFC really works is like this:

The self-ionization of water (also auto ionization of water, and auto dissociation of water) is the chemical reaction in which two water molecules react to produce a hydronium ion (H3O+) and a hydroxide ion (OH−): 2 H2O (l) H3O+ (aq) + OH− (aq). Now looking it to this with Meyer technology we see that the EEC takes the electron from the hydroxide ion(OH-) since it is very close to the positive electrode in the water bath of the WFC due to opposites attracts. This is also made possible due to waters being a dielectric liquid being able to store a charge with a relaxation time of є/σ< 10-6 seconds. What this does is give time for water to hold a charge for it(water) to complete the circuit of the EEC. This circuit completion upsets the natural equilibrium of water H3O+ (aq) + OH- -e(EEC) => H3O+ (aq) + O (gas) plus H (gas) -e light(EEC) ==> H2O (aq) + 2H (gas) + O (gas) -e Light(EEC) when the reaction reestablishes equilibrium. This is why it has to be an isolated circuit for if there is a ground or greater negative to complete the circuit of the EEC it will do so and not upset the balance of waters natural equilibrium.
This is the chemical reaction that is taking place inside of the WFC. And it all has to do with the self-ionization property of water.

The negetive electrode should be coated with glass and have no direct contact with the water. The positive must make direct contact with the water as the EEC shares the connection and gives the electrons another path to go away from the water bath. The circuitry has to be right or it wont work right, and that means it must have an electron extraction circuit that works as the technology needs it to work.

But since I understand how the water fuel injectors work that is the route I am taking. The water fuel injectors(WFI) do not work this way. It uses some of waters other abilities, diamagnetic, dielectric, cohesion, relaxation time, and polar properties. First being that water is diamagnetic giving it the ability to take on an image charge from an electrical field through induction. Second is it being a dielectric liquid gives it the ability to hold the charge for a given amount of time (the relaxation time of water), thirdly is the cohesion properties of water the voltage zone is set to be high enough to overcome these attractive forces naturally found in water and every time the voltage limit is reached the water droplet splits into two smaller water droplets dividing the voltage between them. But as long as it remains inside of the pulsating voltage zone it will be recharged and the process repeats until a minimum volume is reached at that point if charged to the limit of cohesion the water droplet simply breaks down into two parts hydrogen one part oxygen. Any breaking down into it's basic elements that take place inside of the voltage zone will be subject to being stripped of electrons in just the same fashion as the GP does. Now water is also set up to give a very small droplet size with our understanding of the phase diagram of water. Water is placed under pressure at a high temperature and injected into a area of low pressure which immediately turns the water into vapor droplets, not steam. That gives a big head start of the job the WFI has to perform. That is what I am getting ready to do in the very near future. Seems the Italians are the first to strike paydirt but they wont be the last . Many people are now giving this a go as the science & math is solid. The main part that is hard, is building it right and getting the circuitry working as intended for this technology to function correctly.

So again I will not be building any WFC's as I concider that old Meyer technology that he himself moved away from.


h2opower.

[1NRG24Seven]

Hi bussi, actually the circuit was built by a friend of mine in town close by and could not tell you if it did or not. Been trying to get him more involved here in the forum but he is busy with a major overhaul and remodeling of his new home. I am waiting for him to get past that project and get our electronics lab set up again which should be soon as he just purchased a load more of scopes off of ebay to repair and resell. I know he downloaded the circuit diagram off of the net and then we decided to add an array of more pots and switches to have a greater range of frequencies to test. That circuit was not capable of the higher voltages Stan claimed to be using which like I told my friend I believe that you have to have it all...voltage control/frequency, amps...as I believe its all working together...Higher voltages is why Stan never needed electrolyte in his cells as the higher voltages pass through water with much less resistance. Even Tesla was demonstrating the same thing with wireless transmission of electricity. Years ago I tried a neon transformer for a WFC but believe it was too high of voltage and did not see any gas production, but it was a direct connection to the anode and cathode of a WFC with no resistors or anything. But I was getting huge production just with a full wave bridge rectifier using a AC 60MFD cap across the +/- legs of the FWBR and then from there to the nickle anode and cathode. The voltage reading I got back then was 176VDC and .008 ma. The cell had 1 liter of water in it mixed with potassium carbonate @ 3grams weight per liter. The cell went from a little below room temp to 200 degrees in 15 minutes. As the temp went up so did the amperage to around 8 amps. I noticed the amperage stayed very low to around 150 deg F, above that it started to climb very rapidly. By adding a breaking frequency to a circuit like that is what I believe would cut power consumption down and keep the cell from producing heat like Stan's. I never did try and double the voltage of the 176VDC and get it in the range Stan said was between 200V to 600V. At 600VDC and .5 amp that equates to 300 watts I believe. But anyway keeping with your question will pin my friend down and get the website link from him again for the circuit he based his on. As far as the other part of the question if it contained the fig 4 functionality will have to wait till my friend can look at that and tell you as I would not have a clue. I only know some basics in electronics, enough to make me dangerous, guys like you bussi are in a different league as some of what your talking about I understand while much more of it is over my head as I am still learning. Hope that helps....24

[bussi04]

Hi H20...
...
We used a modified Stan Meyer Circuit to give us more tuning variables and a wider range. The circuit worked great for our experiments.
...

Hi 24,

did your Stan Meyer Circuit contain the fig. 4 functionality, some OpAmps for changing frequency from point "J" to analog voltage for the pulsing voltage regulation? I have rebuilt some of the SM circuit but had no success up yet to activate that fig. 4 functionality. would be nice to get a circuit diagram of the device you used.

thanks in advance,
bussi04