Stanley Meyer Explained

[Oneminde]

I chose this solution because it makes sense. I've been researching hydrogen as a fuel source for a few years. I've built some hho cells but nothing that will run a car. I've read about all the replications of meyers. No one was able to do what he did. But what H2opower brings out in this thread makes sense. The science seems solid, and if done right, should work as stated by Meyers. I've been following the thread from the begining and decided to build the water injection system. I will use LEDs because they are cheaper. If meyers system worked with the LEDs he had back then then todays LEDs should be more then enough to do the job. I have some UV and some red I am going to try. The hardest thing for me will be the circuits. My knowledge is not very advanced but i'm not an idiot. I have learned alot of things in my research. If there is something else I have to learn, then I'll learn that too. The internet is a powerful tool.
What exactly do you mean "Have I calclated the HV field"?

By HV we create an electric field and this feild operates at v/cm... so for the HV feild to have an effect there must be a surten voltage and a surten distance bteween the chatode and anode.

So distance and voltage is the question?

h2opower use 2kV at aprox 15cm anode chatode space (15cm can be wrong, he will correct this) 12-15cm is a roughly distance if we look at the image.

[pmazz850]

12-15 cm is about 5-6 inchs. That sounds like a mistake. My gap is about 3/4 of an inch(2cm). Its going to take more then 2kv. I think somewhere between 10kv-20kv. Like I said before I'm not to that point yet. The formula has been layed out, I just need to pick a frequency and fill in the blanks to calculate the rest.

[Oneminde]

12-15 cm is about 5-6 inchs. That sounds like a mistake. My gap is about 3/4 of an inch(2cm). Its going to take more then 2kv. I think somewhere between 10kv-20kv. Like I said before I'm not to that point yet. The formula has been layed out, I just need to pick a frequency and fill in the blanks to calculate the rest.

I made that asumption on the image h2opower provided - meaning the gap from the anode in the center of the GP and the chatode wall and that he claimed that he use 2kV.

You can correct these numbers h2opower. The distance is just an interpitation.

And if things are'nt callculated they are'nt, thats fine - i am just curious.
But i think you are right about the distance and the voltage... it should be close to that - but i have not calculated that myself so.

[h20power]

I made that asumption on the image h2opower provided - meaning the gap from the anode in the center of the GP and the chatode wall and that he claimed that he use 2kV.

You can correct these numbers h2opower. The distance is just an interpitation.

And if things are'nt callculated they are'nt, thats fine - i am just curious.
But i think you are right about the distance and the voltage... it should be close to that - but i have not calculated that myself so.

This is why I should have never shown my design to anyone, for insted of doing the hard work of designing a unit people are trying to get in my head as to what they think I am doing. I messed up the process of the engineering/builders project by showing my design. But if you must know I designed my gas processor to withstand up to 60k volts without arcing and am planing on using from 20k-40k volts or more.

If you want to measure a gas processor look at Stanley Meyer's gas processor and start with the LEDs being 5mm and make your own ruler from that to see how big his is.

I don't think I will be answering any more questions until someone out there aswers the first question dealing with gasoline. First you will have to find out how much liquid is in 1 mole of gasoline, convert the units to gallons and then do the math solving for distance. If no one can do that then I really am wasting my time trying to teach how Stanley Meyer water for fuel technology really works for if you can't answer that simple question then I must be talking to the wrong groupe of people.



h2opower.

[natone_m]

Arcing Distances

Measuring high voltages

This link shows minimum arcing distances for HV low current. This may help to get a general idea of how much a GP can take based on the spacing.

[tutanka]

Measuring high voltages

This link shows minimum arcing distances for HV low current. This may help to get a general idea of how much a GP can take based on the spacing.

HI,
In my GP HV gap is 13mm using 8Kv. Regards

[natone_m]

I got cha back H2O

GAS
37.4 mol in a gallon of gas
37.4 mol/gal X 5300 KJ/mol = 198220 kJ/gal
198220 kJ/gal / 30 mi/gal = 6607.3 kj/mi

HHO
210.3 mols in a gallon of water
210.3 mol/gal X 286 kj/mol = 60145.8 kj/gal
60145.8 kj/gal / 30 mi/gal = 2004.86 kj/mil

THE ULTRA SECRET HAPPY MIX
210.3 mols in a gallon of water
210.3 mol/gal X 6505.2 kj/mol = 1368043.56 kj/gal
1368043.56 kj/gal / 30 mi/gal = 45601.452 kj/mil

Is this right? If so HHO and Gas sux. The ultra secret happy mix wins.

I'm almost through with my autocad gp design. I'll post it for some constructive criticism before i build it.

[h20power]

Thanks natone_m for this shows how Stanley Meyer technology really works in the real world. And to think this is not creating hydrogen and oxygen but fourcing the ionized oxygen atoms to break the bonds of the water molecule apon a spark or heat ignition source. I also want to thank you for showing your work that way others can follow. I was about to give up on all of this for people where again starting to say things that didn't make any since in terms of the real world. Things like, "all you need is a working WFC," or "you wont get thermo explosive energy if you don't ionized the hydrogen too." These type of questions shows a true lack of understanding of what Stanley Meyer's water for fuel technology was really doing in terms of real world science applications, and they show that some didn't understand the math I stumbled onto when learning what where the true purposes of the Gas Processor and Electron Extraction Circuit.

This thread almost got shut down, for it was seeming that I was just talking to a deaf audiance and their backs where turned towards me. Thanks for taking the time to answer the questions natone_m, and everyone else should also thank him for all of this was just about to come to a hault.


h2opower.

[Oneminde]

@h2opower

I clearly stated that it was an assumption, i did not say that your an idiot and that you did anything wrong - but in your text you have mentioned 2kV and that is on you. When pmazz850 posted he's GP i was curious how he solved the different issues about it, after all it is a two part construction.

I did not say that anything was wrong or that anyone made a bad choose whit the design, i only said that there are two different ways of doing things, and who knows, there might be several.

If one post a design or solution one must expect that other members are going to ask questions about it or ells the point in doing so is gone. After all, that is how we grow. And i have clearly posted why i "think" UV-C can do more for us, not that is better or worse - it is just another method, but it also have its drawbacks as everything els we are doing. Every choice have to sides to it.

If someone propose another solution, be open to it, becouse it might be a missing part, criticism may also be important - not to make someone a fool but to point out something important.

I did not make an attack on anyone, i asked questions.
...

And for the energy content of gasoline. In europe we use 95 / 98 octane, not 87.
gasoline is between 41-45 MJ/kg
87 -:- 44 MJ/kg
Diesel -:- 45.4 MJ/kg
LPG -:- 46 MJ/kg
E87/Ethanol 31.6 MJ/kg
Hydrogen -:- 121 MJ/kg

Where i live, it is fairly usual to mix 5% Ethanol in whit the gasoline - it makes the gasoline burne cleaner. But i have never liked Ethanol.
So as you can see, the energy content changes and so do the requirement of energy output for the the system, also engine size and fuel concumption.

So there is more to it then just mol's of energy.

[chasson321]

How far does the car go?

GAS
37.4 mol in a gallon of gas
37.4 mol/gal X 5300 KJ/mol = 198220 kJ/gal
198220 kJ/gal / 30 mi/gal = 6607.3 kj/mi

HHO
210.3 mols in a gallon of water
210.3 mol/gal X 286 kj/mol = 60145.8 kj/gal
60145.8 kj/gal / 30 mi/gal = 2004.86 kj/mil

THE ULTRA SECRET HAPPY MIX
210.3 mols in a gallon of water
210.3 mol/gal X 6505.2 kj/mol = 1368043.56 kj/gal
1368043.56 kj/gal / 30 mi/gal = 45601.452 kj/mil

Is this right? If so HHO and Gas sux. The ultra secret happy mix wins.

I'm almost through with my autocad gp design. I'll post it for some constructive criticism before i build it.

Does the car on gas go .8 miles on one mole? If so how far does the car on HHO travel on one mole of water? How far does the water and stripped oxygen car travel?

[h20power]

This is what I get for gasoline:
(5080kJ/mol)(1gram/44.6kJ)(1L/800grams)(gal/3.785L)(30miles/gal)= 1.13 miles/mol.
It is only .0376gal. Also note I changed the energy content of gasoline to its real value 5300 kJ/mol was kinda on the high side. That 5080 kJ/mol is for 91 octane gasoline or in our case in the US supper unleaded.

Now for hho:
(286 kJ/mol)(1g/15.89 kJ)(1L/1000g)(1gal/3.785L)= 0.00476gal/mol but we need 17.76 moles of hho to equal the energy content of gasoline so then 17.76(.00476gal/mol)= .0845 gallons of water that will need to be converted to travel the same distance.

Now with the GP/EEC plus atomized water:
(6505.2 kJ/mol)(1g/361.4 kJ)(1/1000)(1/3.785)= 0.00476gal/mol but now only .781 moles of the mixture is need to equal the energy content of gasoline so then .781(.00476gal/mol)= 0.00371 gallons of water needs to be atomized to go the same distance.

This is the power of the GP/EEC and note this is the worste case assuming no hydrogen is produced by the injectors. If you produce hydrogen then add in 1836 kJ/mol minus the energy used to create the gas. Also the numbers should be less for the energy to strip the oxygen atoms was not factored in nor was the energy to run the injectors, but it does give a good ballpark figure we can work with.


h2opower.

[h20power]

Now I was curious as to how this all holds up to Meyer's aproximently 22 gallons of water used to go from La, Ca., to Ny, NY (2,778 miles)and this is what I came up with:
It takes aproximently 92.6 gallons of gasoline to go the distance.
hho aproximently 208.2 gallons of water will have to be electrolized.
The Meyer mixture takes 9.2 gallons of water that will need to be atomized.
So this means the missing numbers have an effect on the amount of water needed to be atomized to go the same distance for it should be around 22 gallons used or so. Again this is what the science I stumbled apon is showing me when I looked into just what the Gas Processor in conjuction with the electron extraction circuit was doing to the system as a whole.


h2opower.

[CPU3rother]

Now I was curious as to how this all holds up to Meyer's aproximently 22 gallons of water used to go from La, Ca., to Ny, NY (2,778 miles)and this is what I came up with:
It takes aproximently 92.6 gallons of gasoline to go the distance.
hho aproximently 208.2 gallons of water will have to be electrolized.
The Meyer mixture takes 9.2 gallons of water that will need to be atomized.
So this means the missing numbers have an effect on the amount of water needed to be atomized to go the same distance for it should be around 22 gallons used or so. Again this is what the science I stumbled apon is showing me when I looked into just what the Gas Processor in conjuction with the electron extraction circuit was doing to the system as a whole.


h2opower.

So my nozzle/nozzles and pump will need to be rated at about 2GPH or about 126ml/min as a good starting point.
I like the built in filter on these.
Outside mount nozzles DevilsOwn Injection

[Oneminde]

So my nozzle/nozzles and pump will need to be rated at about 2GPH or about 126ml/min as a good starting point.
I like the built in filter on these.
Outside mount nozzles DevilsOwn Injection

Nice. But whould'nt it be easyer to break it down.

Calculate how much fuel/water that needs to be atomized per cycle.
Use a specific number to do so.

Ex; You have a 3468cc engine (3.5L) and 6cyl = 578cc/cyl. - Now how much energy is needed to displace that piston at idle and at 2500rpm and @ 5000rpm?
Idle is aprox 1100rpm/60 sec = 18.4 cycles per secund. That whould be the pulsing.
Every puls need to fill 578cc/cyl. How much time does that take?

So one of the first questions is how much fuel/air does the cylinder need and so on...
Voltage + time (opening and closing of the nozle) - the faster this is the higher the voltage need to and vice versa.

I have never done that so that is my excuse
We need a standard chart - change energy content of that of gasoline/diesel to HHO. Maybe the super secret mixed fuel that we are developing!

I do not have the time to do this now - but that whould be the way to go before desiding on the nozle!
...

REMEMBER that Meyer used a 4cyl 1600cc engine, that is a smal engine! Larger engines are more common today (2.0-3.5L).

[h20power]

So my nozzle/nozzles and pump will need to be rated at about 2GPH or about 126ml/min as a good starting point.
I like the built in filter on these.
Outside mount nozzles DevilsOwn Injection

Honistly I don't have an answer for you on that one, your just going to have to test it out. For what I am doing I am modifing the existing fuel injectors and will need to get to the cars cpu to reprogram the injectors time on time to cut down the amount of liquid being sprayed in a given amount of time into the intake chamber. I think it will be the air to fuel mixture raito I will adjust it to 28:1 for starts and go from there.

Those are some well built injectors but I am not sure if they are what we need, questions I have are; How will you pulse them? What would keep them from dripping after the pulsing?
Just some questions I have with the use of them. I have a methonal/water injection kit and would only use it to cool the intake system if everything starts to get too hot.

I have a lot of work to do also "much work remains" as Meyer puts it But now everyone should see that the math I posted so long ago is right on the mark. All we have to do is build it all and away we go. I am currently working on the VIC transformers and matching electronics to go with the injectors and Gas Processor systems. Then it's on to the injector modifications and that should do it for me, note though I make it sound easy I know it wont be. But once it is done I will have freedom from this new form of slavery for all time.


h2opower.