HHO Booster System Design: Help Wanted

[Banshee]

[Redmeanie]

Now that is how its done!

That is a perfect example of "How To Ask A Question"!

Im going to let others chime in here first to give you ideas, but I will tell you that you Only need to monitor Water Level and Current Draw. That can be done real simple. I will chime in after others get you started on the Major Question at hand, the actual "Booster" itself.....

Also in the PDF are you talking about "Wests" Version of a Wasabe?

[Banshee]

Hotsabi - E-cell design

Hi Redmeanie,

I am not familiar with Wests version , the Chapter10 pdf file refers to it as a E-Cell Hotsabi. It was a neat idea, but others have peaked my curiosity more so.

I have a small group of guys that work with me at Erickson AirCrane, the manufacturer the S64 Skycrane helicopter (seen in the movie Swordfish carrying the bus through the city). We are kicking this around trying to see if we can design a system to work with our automobiles. I have a combination of electrical engineers, designers, technicians along with myself, the sole mechanical engineer interested to learn and test out a system.

Right now, I am working on a "Statement of Requirements" document for the design that covers the engineering, performance, and physical requirements. I figure its best to have a plan and requirements lined out before we start off manufacturing or tinkering with something.

Hopefully, with a little guidance and some smarts, we can come up with something cool!

Banshee

[TuxAir]

Oh lord... a bunch of aviation engineers and technicians are going to build something!
And I say that with the utmost respect. I'm in aviation myself and I know what happens when engineers and technicians get together. I know it will end up working and will look great too! Include part numbers starting with AN, MS etc... and will just take a few revisions All the best with your build. You have come to the best place for information. Welcome!

[WCastle]

Welcome Banshee,

Seems strange welcoming someone here being a newbie to this forum myself
But I have been building/testing units myself for awhile.

The current unit I have is a "brute force" method gas producer, has been running on a 1985 GM 2800 for over 2 months and has improved mileage from an average of 25 hwy to average 32 hwy and there is no question when it comes time to fiil up there IS a savings.

I have tried the hokus pokus methods - magnetic fuel line "crackers" air cleaner enhancements, catylist "pills" for the tank and gave up on those.

The brute force method I use is nothing really new it is in a 316l stainless container, 5" x 12" with 316l stainless screen rolled up like a D battery
with poly dielectric screen between the electrodes, 1/2" SS rod for the connections
going through a 1/2 poly top bolted securely to the top of the reactor chamber.

There is a stainless compression fitting to a 3/8" stainless tube for output.

A 1/4" water inlet fitting, and a Stainless screw protruding down from the
poly top for water level sensing, after several incarnations - types of electrolyte "pollution" trials, well what seemed to work best with the vast surface area that screen gives, just plain ole good water seems to work
best, keep in mind not everyone's water is what I would consider good.

I started this design over 4 years ago and just finished all lab tests to my satisfaction this summer, so now it is in service and will stay there.

The way it is configured in its current state there is enough current to use the outer shell of the reactor chamber to run the raditor fan - hey why not make some bubbles while running the fan too !

I am pleased to see more "engineer types" coming here, and when you extrapolate from the consensus here and come up with what works for you
please share your findings, no matter how unlikely they are :0

BTW the "hydrogen" these units produce is not the same as lab hydrogen that has been cracked from fossil sludge and processed, this stuff is "ready" all on its own and every saftey precaution you ever dreamed of for aviation fuel after oxidation needs to also be invoked.

happy hunting.

[ashtweth]

Guys don't forget the tubular cylindrical designs, they have been shown to produce 2LPM at 20 amps and NO heating for 10 hours.
Wouter Oosthuizen

I am writing up ALL the designs for the board it will be compete with Readmeanies EFFIE stuff soon..

[wpage]

Survey location

Banshee,
Good luck with your plans...
B4 you embark verify your space requirments under the hood.
-No point in building a advanced design and finding no place to install it in your rig!
-Map out your wire runs and hose routing as well.
These basics will help with a sound solution in the end.
W

[Banshee]

Design requirements and comments

Hey guys,

Thanks for the data. Too funny about the engineering humor. Lucky for me, I am not what you would call a typical engineer, more along the lines of a maverick in the engineering world. Trust me, I have seen tons of paper generated to support the aircraft world and that's not where I want to go with this design.....keep it simple, stay focused, and see what we come up with.

WCastle

[Redmeanie]

Hey guys,

Thanks for the data. Too funny about the engineering humor. Lucky for me, I am not what you would call a typical engineer, more along the lines of a maverick in the engineering world. Trust me, I have seen tons of paper generated to support the aircraft world and that's not where I want to go with this design.....keep it simple, stay focused, and see what we come up with.

WCastle

Every One of your requirements are achievable and available right on this site. The only thing you are going to have to research and probably design is the Display you want.

But all the safety features and Target Outputs are Common Place, that shouldn't take any real research at all.

The Run Away Current can be controlled by a PWM, the A/F Ratio can be monitored but if it is a Narrow Band O2 you are using it's not going to be "Exact" its going to be "Ball Park" if you want exact, you being in the Aviation Field I know you know this, but an EGT is the way to go.

The Auto shut down is easy just wire in a "Breaker" which is pretty much mandatory anyway, and an LED Shorted across the Legs. When it trips the tripped Leg becomes Ground, and the LED will light. The Water Level shut down can be wired through the Main Relay, Inline with the Coil side.

[Banshee]

Booster Cell

Thanks Redmeanie,

I will be doing more research on the site to see what I can find to support the design......

I am curious to see what booster design people recommend. I know the Smacks booster has worked well for many people. Series cell setup seem more efficient, but I wonder if the electrolyte solution can be adjusted to ramp up the warm up time/hydrogen output and still use a PWM to keep the temperature/current under control. Maybe setting up the PWM to only be triggered when a certain temp or max current is reached, not sure if that realistic or not....

The reason I am asking is that I would primarily target the booster for 30 minute commutes to/from work with occasional longer trips. Having said that, you would want the booster to ramp up in hydrogen production reasonably quick to get the benefits within a 30 minute drive.

The Archie Blue cell looks interesting as well, but I haven't heard much about them.

Banshee

[Redmeanie]

Thanks Redmeanie,

I will be doing more research on the site to see what I can find to support the design......

I am curious to see what booster design people recommend. I know the Smacks booster has worked well for many people. Series cell setup seem more efficient, but I wonder if the electrolyte solution can be adjusted to ramp up the warm up time/hydrogen output and still use a PWM to keep the temperature/current under control. Maybe setting up the PWM to only be triggered when a certain temp or max current is reached, not sure if that realistic or not....

The reason I am asking is that I would primarily target the booster for 30 minute commutes to/from work with occasional longer trips. Having said that, you would want the booster to ramp up in hydrogen production reasonably quick to get the benefits within a 30 minute drive.

The Archie Blue cell looks interesting as well, but I haven't heard much about them.

Banshee

Well to be honest, once a Cell has been conditioned, there is NO Warm up time. as soon as it is switched on the electrolysis starts immediately. The Electrolyte Temp has nothing to do with production, and a very important key is to keep it as low and stable as possible.

Also if you are looking for a Compact, very easy and reliable design the "Archie Blue" is where you want to be looking at. Just do a search here and you will see links I have posted for others to the "Archie Blue" Patent.

[Banshee]

[Redmeanie]

Absolutely!

The series cell is chosen just for that reason,because they are more "Efficient", but many choose the single cell, smack's and Archie Blue style because of ease of build and space requirements. Remember even a series cell must have adequate plate area for each individual cell.

My opinion, all you need to monitor is Amperage and Water Level. If one of those changes drastically in a short time then you know you have a problem. KISS Theory is absolutely the way to go, over complicating things will just make more room for mistakes.

[Banshee]

Any pictures of a Archie Blue cell?

Absolutely!

The series cell is chosen just for that reason,because they are more "Efficient", but many choose the single cell, smack's and Archie Blue style because of ease of build and space requirements. Remember even a series cell must have adequate plate area for each individual cell.

My opinion, all you need to monitor is Amperage and Water Level. If one of those changes drastically in a short time then you know you have a problem. KISS Theory is absolutely the way to go, over complicating things will just make more room for mistakes.

Hey Redmeanie,

Do you have any pictures of an Archie Blue cell you have built in the past? I have searched the net and the site, found basically a cross section per the patent and little more.

The write-up on the smack's booster is very detailed and easy to follow. I was hoping to find something along those lines for the Archie Blue cell as well. Something that would be specific on spacing, materials, hole sizes, etc.

Banshee

[Danny EscapeHybrid]

I am in agreement with Banshee. I've looked for a working model of the Archie Blue setup and only found the patten posted.

I am also looking for a more indepth build on this style of generator and looking to put two of them up on my V-8 Sport-Trac (then later to the Escape Hybrid).

Any help on this would be good for direction.

Danny