Stan meyer circuit

[octavian]

Does a PWM produce analoge waves or sine waves? and yes WCastle, i do appreciate visualization

[WCastle]

Does a PWM produce analoge waves or sine waves?

Well that depends...

A pulse in itself is square, however if you send it into the rotor winding of a rotating AC induction motor, and sample the stator windings you can see the resulting waveform that Mr. M. was using (from what I can tell)

anyway, I am not trying to confuse anyone just thinking aloud.

[octavian]

anyway, I am not trying to confuse anyone just thinking aloud.

Nothing wrong with that

[Aaron]

just to have it covered

In the New Zealand house video, he openly mentions that some of the things he lists are there simply so he has it covered in the patent...for example, the use of stainless steel wire. It is worth watching.

[octavian]

In the New Zealand house video, he openly mentions that some of the things he lists are there simply so he has it covered in the patent...for example, the use of stainless steel wire. It is worth watching.

Do you think it would be possible to get a link to that video?

[Redmeanie]

Nothing wrong with that

WCASTLE Knows his stuff!!

Like he said, yes a PWM generally sends out square waves. But this output is changed drastically by Coils and Chokes. That is why I said I believe Meyers Circuit is Linear up to that point.

If you are looking for a Square Wave that is Amplified, just use a PWM But you are limited to the True Voltages you can get through a Mosfet. That is the only way I see keeping a Square Wave.

[Aaron]

Stan Meyer New Zealand House Video

I've seen it in torrent searches, etc... but anytime it is posted anywhere, someone from one of the water fuel websites claims copyright infringement and google or whatever takes it down. I have yet to see any proof they have any rights to the videos at all even though they retail the videos. They were sold by someone in NZ (might find that link that) way before these people were.

At Torrents Search Engine you can search for STAN MEYER and you'll see it but you need bitlord or some other torrent downloading program. I don't know the truth about the copyright but you can probably search the answer.

[octavian]

WCASTLE Knows his stuff!!

Like he said, yes a PWM generally sends out square waves. But this output is changed drastically by Coils and Chokes. That is why I said I believe Meyers Circuit is Linear up to that point.

If you are looking for a Square Wave that is Amplified, just use a PWM But you are limited to the True Voltages you can get through a Mosfet. That is the only way I see keeping a Square Wave.

Thanks,
but i don't see the point of using a certain type of wave, unless of course one results in better efficiency than the other. and the point of having a linear circuit, as far as i can see, only matters when you have to deal with superpositioning... as i have said before it's just some random ideas i'm playing with.

[octavian]

I've seen it in torrent searches, etc... but anytime it is posted anywhere, someone from one of the water fuel websites claims copyright infringement and google or whatever takes it down. I have yet to see any proof they have any rights to the videos at all even though they retail the videos. They were sold by someone in NZ (might find that link that) way before these people were.

At Torrents Search Engine you can search for STAN MEYER and you'll see it but you need bitlord or some other torrent downloading program. I don't know the truth about the copyright but you can probably search the answer.

Thank's Aaron,
one other issue though. if you take a look at figure 7-13: VIC Secondary Switch-Off Coil-Array in the WFC manual (i'm afraid i haven't figured out how to add pictures to posts), what excactly is it?

everybody is talking about the chokes and the capasitor, wich of course are crusial, but what is all the electronics behind it?

[Maxwell]

Linearity

Linearity of a system depends upon what you call input and output. Any ideal circuit involving resistors, capacitors, and inductors will have a linear relationship between any voltages and currents.

Just about every real life physical system is nonlinear. There can often be found some suitable range where we can approximate the behavior as linear. Linear systems are desirable because they are easier to analyze and reproduce than nonlinear systems. We can use superposition techniques and, most usefully, Fourier techniques to analyze what is going on.

As for the Meyer device, talk of extremely high potentials almost certainly implies it is acting in a highly nonlinear region. Further, if we are considering something other than a voltage or current as the input or output, such as the amount of gas production, then a nonlinearity will likely be involved.

[InTheField]

Thinking out loud...

If anyone has mentioned this, my apologies. In some of Meyer's materials he shows a pulsing transformer which is drawn to show that the input side is the lower voltage side and the output side is stepped up. I don't recall exactly which document had the comment, but I do recall reading kV ranges... H2O will start to disassociate in the 20-25kV range and at very high frequencies (approaching PHz) naturally. In combination, the stepped up voltage (with little or no amperage) coupled with higher frequency pulses (but don't have to be in the 10E15 range that water disassociates at) that are gated should work together to create the resonant breakdown Meyers (and others) talk about. At higher frequencies the output won't be a square wave at all... it will naturally "roll over" and become sinusoidal. Even in moderate speeds (approaching 500MHz-1GHz and going up from there) generated square wave signals start to look like sine waves. Getting the high voltage isn't very hard to do (even a simple diode and cap cascade will get you there without the stepup transformer)... Getting very high frequencies takes more work, but should still be "doable". The standard PWM & 555 circuits that are generally out there will only get you so far in accomplishing that, but they're the starting point. Ummmm sorry for the ramble...

Forgive this mental intrusion...

[octavian]

If anyone has mentioned this, my apologies. In some of Meyer's materials he shows a pulsing transformer which is drawn to show that the input side is the lower voltage side and the output side is stepped up. I don't recall exactly which document had the comment, but I do recall reading kV ranges... H2O will start to disassociate in the 20-25kV range and at very high frequencies (approaching PHz) naturally. In combination, the stepped up voltage (with little or no amperage) coupled with higher frequency pulses (but don't have to be in the 10E15 range that water disassociates at) that are gated should work together to create the resonant breakdown Meyers (and others) talk about. At higher frequencies the output won't be a square wave at all... it will naturally "roll over" and become sinusoidal. Even in moderate speeds (approaching 500MHz-1GHz and going up from there) generated square wave signals start to look like sine waves. Getting the high voltage isn't very hard to do (even a simple diode and cap cascade will get you there without the stepup transformer)... Getting very high frequencies takes more work, but should still be "doable". The standard PWM & 555 circuits that are generally out there will only get you so far in accomplishing that, but they're the starting point. Ummmm sorry for the ramble...

Forgive this mental intrusion...

I love mental intrusions

but when you say a standard PWM and 555 ciruits will only get me so far... do you know what will get me there?

[octavian]

Linearity of a system depends upon what you call input and output. Any ideal circuit involving resistors, capacitors, and inductors will have a linear relationship between any voltages and currents.

Just about every real life physical system is nonlinear. There can often be found some suitable range where we can approximate the behavior as linear. Linear systems are desirable because they are easier to analyze and reproduce than nonlinear systems. We can use superposition techniques and, most usefully, Fourier techniques to analyze what is going on.

As for the Meyer device, talk of extremely high potentials almost certainly implies it is acting in a highly nonlinear region. Further, if we are considering something other than a voltage or current as the input or output, such as the amount of gas production, then a nonlinearity will likely be involved.

Ok so it's non-linear.. good to know.
thanks

[InTheField]

I love mental intrusions

but when you say a standard PWM and 555 ciruits will only get me so far... do you know what will get me there?

I should clarify... I didn't mean that those circuits won't work, especially for creating the resonances for a WFC. I was thinking about the frequencies needed to disassociate water in general... which are much higher without other processes playing in the mix. So to explain, as an example, the 555 timer circuits generally max out in the ~100kHz ranges and most PWM chips, even the "Hi-speed" or "High Frequency" ones, seem to top out in the ~MHz range. Perhaps that is enough to accomplish the goal, but not alone. It's certainly enough to resonate a WFC depending on the construction. There are harmonics to consider, but those outputs drop off considerably in strength.

The H2 (not H20, just H2) Ionization frequency is around 3.26 PHz (that's 3.26 Million GHz). Water disassociates much lower than that, but in Meyer's patent on the "spark plug" device, he shows the light frequency introduced through the LED banks. Also, throughout Meyer's patents and literature there is mention of frequency being used along with voltage potential (with an emphasis on low current). A bright red LED will put out a visible frequency in the 428 PHz range (that's still 428 thousand GHz frequency). (InfraRed is slightly lower, UV is nearly double the frequency of that red LED) Personally, I think that's an interesting tidbit to think about in regards to how that design worked and where Meyer's was "coming from".

Some discussion has mentioned the resonance of the WFC (thus the mention of "tuning" the tubes to match the inner-outer tubes together). From what I've read in Meyer's papers/patents, that is important. But it seems to me that it is also important to resonate the H2O in conjunction/connection with the WFC. In one of Meyer's patents/papers he describes a single 3" tube capacitor as having a resonance of ~5kHz, obviously within the range of the timing circuits discussed. But, he goes on to say that different setups have different resonances... and mentions going to 50kHz and higher. He also states the voltages of 2-5kV at the WFC. In fact, the statement was made (IIRC as a footnote) that 1.5kV is the minimum needed to get resonance to begin and that the pulse harmonics, depending on WFC construction, need to be 9-144kHz to get the WFC to resonate (note: not the H2O, but the WFC). In Meyer's papers/patents there are step up transformers for voltage and step up transformers for frequency. The discussion on another thread about the chokes that Meyer's made is integral to my train of thought here. Meyer's custom wound chokes/inductors/etc essentially perform the voltage and frequency increases...

Other research has used voltage potentials in the 50kV range (with an optimum being about 1/2 that) to disassociate water with little or no current.

I've read the mention of using higher voltage potential and there are plenty of pulse circuits around. I'm just thinking that there is a need to combine the two (ala Meyer). And it seems that by using the two together, the voltage doesn't need to be quite so high and the frequency doesn't need to be quite so high. I still haven't decided whether just getting the WFC to resonate is enough. Perhaps "tuning" the WFC so that the resonance of the WFC has a higher order harmonic that is the resonance of H2O is the key.

Again... just "thinking out loud" and pondering...

Regardless, I'd like to hear from folks who've been stepping up the voltage into the multiple kV range along with tuning the frequency. Any info on the results of such experiments would be interesting.

I have one timer circuit setup with an induction coil setup that I want to test and a second setup that specifically steps up the voltage (still being built/refined). Unfortunately, when I went last Friday to pick up the machined SS to use in my version of a WFC, the machine shop had allowed a "new kid" to run the machining process and he'd basically ruined a few hundred dollars worth of SS. (Grrrrrr....) They're going to replace the stuff at their expense (as they should), but it caused me two problems. 1) I couldn't do the work on this that I wanted to last weekend, 2) now I have to wait for the new SS to come in and get machined. They said I was "at the top of the list", but last time I waited for over 2 weeks for them to "get to it". I thought that it would be better to have it done this way, but it hasn't worked out for me.

Later...

[Aaron]

radiant spikes

This is what my output looks like in one of my Bedini oscillators. I independently found how to make these oscillators in 7 years ago. This is what the output is and what I have applied to different cells with different voltages. This is neither really a square wave or sine wave...it is pure potential impulses. This pic isn't from John's site, it is my own. This particular shot is 12v in and about 440v out on a coil with 1:1 turn ratio. There is a purpose for the 1:1. Anyway, I'll post 2 schematics side by side that I have tried to show the comparison of about 4 years ago or so when I was trying to convince people that they have to learn how to make circuits that output voltage potential to apply to the WFC and that studying Bedini's circuits is probably the best way to to learn it.