Bedini Earth Light

[abdlquadri]

Seth,
I just can not recommend unsafe chemicals to the group.
John B

Hi John I respect your love and care for this group members. But I think if members of this group can deal with kilovolts of electricity, flying neos at thousands of rpm, they should be able to deal harmful chemicals.

Also they might even know alternatives that are not so harmful.

Just put a large red disclaimer....

What do you think?

[ibpointless2]

John Bedini,

You have said with the latest crystal batteries that self charges it self while given a load are expensive, dangerous, and I think you said something about semiconductors too. The only battery tech that i know of that usually fits this build are radioactive batteries or beta batteries. Is radioactivity what you're using? I've thought about doing this but I'm having a hard time finding something that is radioactive but safe to use and cheap too. The salt substitute that I insist people use in my cells is radioactive and that was the main reason why I say use it. Radiation isn't a bad thing, after all the cosmic rays that hit our bodies make carbon 14. So I guess if you want a true free energy from cosmic rays find away to tap the energy coming from carbon 14.

[everyidea]

@abdlquadri,

All the chemicals have been listed in this thread. You can purchase them all at:

ESPI Metals | HOME

With a simple control and about 6 tests you could find the answer, I plan to do so myself. Buy and use at your own risk and always read the MSDS.

@All, One thing I'd like to see more here is control/doped comparisons. When I posted my cement cell tests I did a control and then showed what each dopant would do to the cell, along with variations of electrode design in relation to the control. By adding one dopant at a time and testing we can see its difference from the control and it will point us in the right direction. It's the Edison way of doing things I guess, but works.

rw

[Lidmotor]

Ibpointless Crystal Cell---The air humidity experiment

@JB and Chuck H
I am sure that there are many people like me who are watching your work with a magnifying glass and trying to learn not only how to make one at home---but WHY they work. I am not saying much about your recent cells because I really don't understand them---yet. The Ibpointless crystal cell is the first cell that I have made that was built dry. ALL the other cells that I have made envolved liquid water in some way when they were put together. The Ibpointless cell was built with heat, on the stove, and with no liquid water in the mix. If you ever come up with a safe and inexpensive formula for your "true" crystal cell-- I am sure that you will let us all know about it.

@ Ibpointless
I am running an experiment to see if air humidity is why your "dry" crystal cell is working for me. The two that I made have not stopped so I sealed up the one that is connected to my "Penny" oscillator in a large clear plastic container. I put in desiccant packs to draw out the moisture inside the container. A voltage reading was taken on the cell (under load) before I sealed in the oscillator and I will be able to see the blink rate of the LEDs and hear the oscillator on an AM radio. A drop in cell voltage will cause a slow down in the blink rate. After a few days (if it goes that long) I will unseal the container and take another voltage reading on the cell.

Here is a video of how the experiment is setup:

Dry Crystal Cell---The air humidity experiment.ASF - YouTube

@All
The debate going on about galvanic vs "something else" is just going to keep continuing until people can replicate JB and Chuck's cell exactly and prove it.
Maybe someone, with a lab, with the right mixture, and with JB's approval can do this. We need to stick a fork in this "galvainc" demon that haunts us or be willing to accept failure. A galvanic cell operating with two dissimilar metals in an electrolyte IS---a fifth grade experiment.

Lidmotor

[John_Bedini]

Bedni Earth Lights / Crystal Cells.

Ibpointless2,
I respect what you have said. I do not use any of those radioactive materials, yes all things contain small amounts. But again why push your luck, I have seen people that have died from that making one mistake. In my early research in 1975 I investigated all that to find small amounts get everywhere. Ron Cole used that on Solar Cells when you could buy Radium paint, Watch makers used it and died from it. Even if I give the warnings it would be ignored by some I just would not feel right about that. If you choose to use radioactive materials then best of luck as I can not recommend that to the group. My mix is bad enough to work with what I'm using and take every precaution I can, but I know it's not good enough around people. I will just contain myself to just gathering rocks and crushing them to find the answer.
Hope you all understand.
John B

[b_rads]

All:
I apologize for not participating in the last couple of days however; I have been keeping up with the posts.
As far as encasing your cell, I would make this suggestion. Hold off, once a cell is encased in plastic as I have done, it is very difficult to take the cell apart for visual inspection. Mikrovolt made an excellent suggestion if you are concerned about moisture. Place your cells in a sealed glass jar, etc, and place moisture absorbent under the cell. I use those moisture absorbent packs in my gun safe and they protect the metals very well. Here in the Deep South we have very high humidity.
If you do seal the cell, something to consider is the material used to seal the cell. The best thing I have found so far is the polyester casting resin. Some materials can destroy your hard work as I have found out. Super Glue Gel immediately destroyed one of my cells. I had a concept cell I tried to seal with a laminator. Bad idea!! Many other things I have tried seem to have had a less than optimal result. Finding the right encasing material can be difficult and prepare to lose a few cells in choosing the right material.
I have had a chance to do a little research on crystal doping, free electrons, electron gaps, and the information is fascinating. When doping the Rochelle salt crystals, the geometry can be changed as well as the chemical properties. Look for Rochelle Salt doped with copper(II) and you can see the results. The more I look into this stuff, the more in awe I am of the work John and Chuck have shown to us. Research this statement from John Bedini:

Solid State chemistry is much different then normal chemistry do not mix up the two. You change the Crystal structure when you apply heat in any form. If you mix Rochelle Salts with Epsom Salts and add anything else you have changed the Crystal Lattice add an impurity and you add electrons to the valance band, the point is, can you pop an electron out and have something to take the place of that and then add another one to pop out.You kill the dipole and you kill the battery unless you have the broken symmetry, open to the environment, input from Nature.

I suggest we all keep cooking stuff and reporting results. The stuff that IB did with this latest cell and the dialog back and forth about why it does or does not work has been terrific and helps in having a better understanding of what is really happening. I applaud all the thoughts and testing the group is doing here and believe this type of experimentation is what will lead us to true crystal cells that we will all be able to make.
Chuck and/or John:
With a picture of the crystal structures and the reason they are doing the super cool things they are, would you mind expounding on the importance of the dissimilar metals for the cell and the roll they are playing if not galvanic, could this be to set the dipole in curing? I would love to her your thoughts. Thanks in advance,
Brad S

[seth]

@All
The debate going on about galvanic vs "something else" is just going to keep continuing until people can replicate JB and Chuck's cell exactly and prove it.
Maybe someone, with a lab, with the right mixture, and with JB's approval can do this. We need to stick a fork in this "galvainc" demon that haunts us or be willing to accept failure. A galvanic cell operating with two dissimilar metals in an electrolyte IS---a fifth grade experiment.

Lidmotor

If Im honest, I dont really understand HOW it could work even if the moisture turns out to be the galvanic driving force. Im sure the electrolyte in batteries require MOBILE charge carriers in order for galvanic reactions to occur. How could a crystal lattice contain mobile charge carriers??? Thos water molecules are locked in the lattice.

Confused and eagerly awaiting your results

EDIT: Just found out that the water of crystallization molecules are NOT chemically bonded to the crystal lattice - so, if your setup stops, the water of crystallization molecules are the charge carriers.

[John_Bedini]

Crystal batteries

In this Video I show what happens when moisture is added to the air, like 80%this has a substantial effect on the energy the cell tries to scavenge. The cell can recover as it dries out then I balance the impedance to watch it climb back up.This seems that the cells can do this for years if need be, Next making one from Cerminics . The Mix KNaC4H4O6 + MgSo47H2O +BaTiO3 + SrTiO3 + Al2(So4)3 14 2O

Youtube
Crystal Batteries Adding Moisture To The Air 80% - YouTube

John B

[John_Bedini]

Bedini Earth Lights / Crystal Cells

To All,
I will try one more time to explain what is going on in the crystal, Crystals are energy scavengers all by themselves. The point here is can you tap into the energy? the only way to do this is through the use of metals at this time. The real effect is making very small diodes that sums all that is scavenged from the environment. The universities have already done this with nano tubes. It's the ambient heat that it is converting to useable electrical power, energy from the surrounding space. This can be done with standard diodes off the shelf 1n914's and so on, look it up. The semiconductor portion you must add the correct impurities adding electrons, that could be Boron, Phosphor and so on. You need a material that adds the electrons to the outer shells so during this conversion they can move but then get replaced, Hole Movement just like a Solar Cells in light.
This is not Rocket Science anymore, it's just a self powering semiconductor from the surrounding ambient environment. If it takes you growing your own crystals to do it, you can.

John Hutchinson did show the basic thing, He has just added basic materials to different mixes and then watches the results. He really did not give you any power at all, just something to experiment with. You could do this with Tourmaline and quartz, lead sulfide, Iron Pyrite. Adding that to the mix in the amount he did got you nothing as the energy was already in the Crystal Lattice waiting for a carrier for electrons, Epsom Salts. I really doubt that crushing the rocks in his mix is adding one thing. I pointed out what the system is and how it works, and that is, "Prigogine Crystal System"
"Prigogine system: a many-particle system which is deliberately forced to exist far from thermodynamic equilibrium, and which exhibits negative entropy. Note that local curvature of vacuum spacetime places the local virtual state flux in nonequilibrium conditions, with the result that an observable energy "sink" or "source" can be produced."

I find one Girl that builds Semiconductors at home sort of a J-Fet, if she can do it so can you with a little work. But you can see the chemicals that she is using and this will explain doping the silicon. The most important thing is the hot point methods to determine wither the device is an N device or a P device.
Homebrew NMOS Transistor Step by Step - So Easy Even Jeri Can Do It - YouTube Watch all her Videos She is GREAT at this.

So what your watching with John Hutchinson is a methods of not knowing what the positive electrode is going to be as an energy collector. The Rochelle Salt works all by itself. Epsom Salts just adds a little more confusion and a transport mechanism along with the Sodium Silicate since it is not doped. But you can dope this material and use it on the electrodes.
Thats all I can say at this time.
John B

[seth]

Thanks John. Lots of stuff to think about with this one....

Ive been reading Townsend Brown notebooks because Hutchison mentioned him in the video. Heres the link, and some juicy bits to whet everyones appetite...

Thomas Townsend Brown: Scientific Notebook, Vol. 4

Section 193

Storage of Electricity in Rocks.

1975.

Rock sensors act as storage batteries and may be charged. Just how long the charge remains varies with the particular rock. Rocks in series are able to store a higher voltage.
In other words, rocks have a very high (natural) capacitance. More than capacitance, it seems to be in the nature of a persisting excitation. So long as the excitation persists, the voltage sustains.
Thus, it is not simple capacitance depending upon the dielectric constant of the dielectric but something else, a form of excitation which requires an energy input and then decays. This decay is far slower than if the effect were merely capacitance.
This difference (from ordinary condenser action) is clearly noted when the rock is shorted. When the short is removed the potential returns to a value almost as great as before the short occurred.


T.T. Brown has noticed the same effects eh....?? Lets go further down the rabbit hole.....

In this respect it is similar to electrets which may be shorted and then return to normal when the short is removed. Hence, we may again refer to rocks as geo-electrets (Sec. 172).

There is this difference. Carnauba wax electrets retain a high voltage but can support virtually no current. Geo-electrets seem to be able to support large currents, depending upon the size. Large rocks may conceivably provide substantial current.

This places the geo-electret in the class of a chemical cell or storage batter, and may, as a matter of speculation, find an application commercially as an energy storage means.

One may picture large blocks of granite, connected in series, as equivalent to storage batteries --- with the advantage of not requiring service or replacement and conceivably having indefinite, unlimited life.

If this is true, and it seems to be what of the great pyramids? Can the atmospheric electric gradient charge the pyramids? Has anyone measured the potential difference between the cap and the base of Cheops? What of the pyramid shape? Is it significant?Does all this mean that rocks become electrically polarized by the application o a field? Does the rock contain molecular dipoles which become oriented? Similar to becoming magnetized, can a rock become electrolyzed? Is there an electrical Curie Point, above which polarization is lost?
Let us take, for example, a large flat surface of the earth’s granitic crust, apply a positive charge at the center so as to establish a radial field.
This then becomes a radially polarized electrical domain. Measurements of the so-called self-potential of this region would establish the existence of such a domain. Can this pinpoint the presence of subsurface heat? Apparently, it is believed that it can.
This would infer that the hottest region is positive and that the heat gradient and electric gradient are parallel. Hence, in the case of the Koolau Plug, the central region of the plug is positive while the periphery is negative.
This charge retention in rocks, perhaps also in many solids (crystalline and amorphous), may be due to dipole orientation. A gradient or field probably aligns the constituent dipoles, so that a net potential difference results. The greater the number of aligned dipoles, the greater is the net potential. But the alignment decays, as individual dipoles flip to random positions. Hence, the net voltage drops.
Thermal agitation would appear to hasten this decay. Hence, the higher the temperature the more rapid the decay. At some temperature (as with the Curie Point in magnetism) dipole orientation cannot be maintained and the net charge would disappear.
Conversely, at lower (cryogenic) temperatures, the net charge may possibly be retained indefinitely. This, I believe, is true with electrets generally, although certain electret waxes (of very high resistivity) maintain charge for long periods of time.

And he doesnt stop there.....

Check it out - its a must read.

[MonsieurM]

thanks Seth for the info

[Lidmotor]

Jeri Ellsworth

@John B.
Thanks for the description (one more time) of how a ture crystal cell gathers energy. The reference to Jeri Ellsworth kinda surprised me. I was wondering what you thought of her. I had posted a link a ways back to her video about basic batteries. She is one of my heroes-- not just because of what she knows and has done but HOW she did it. She is like most of us here and just learned this stuff on her own or as she puts it "with the help of mentors". School was not for her and she dropped out at high school. I really wish that we could get her here at this forum working on something. Did you know that she used to race dirt track cars as a kid and is building a race car right now?

I was glad to see that your crystal cell did not like humidity. That was a really good sign. The cell that I enclosed in the plastic container earlier today with the desiccant packs is doing fine and the blink rate seems to be getting faster. I will pull the oscillator out tommorrow and check the voltage on the cell. I finally got some Rochelle salts to grow from my homemade mixture so I can now think about moving onto a more complex cell mix. It all takes time.

Lidmotor

[eternalightwithin]

Haha, parallel thinking. :-D

After reading JB's post of crushing rocks I immediately thought of T.T.Brown.
Later in life he turned to studying solar induced electricity in rocks. He found diurnal rhythm and that certain rocks output more voltage than others.

Sincerely,

David P

[John_Bedini]

Bedini Earth Light, Crystal Cell

Seth, Lidmotor, all
Your right lots to think about, and we are in a rabbit hole.

Yes Lidmotor That Girl is Great a real thinker.

I would also say that The Ancients knew the answer to this mystery, however it is possible to have a continuous glowing rock crystal day or night with this technology, Carborundum may be one answer since it emits light with low current in a crystal form.
Just to bad the Library of Alexandria was destroyed. TT Browns work should be easy to prove with electrical conductive epoxy and wires.
John B

[ibpointless2]

Ibpointless2,
I respect what you have said. I do not use any of those radioactive materials, yes all things contain small amounts. But again why push your luck, I have seen people that have died from that making one mistake. In my early research in 1975 I investigated all that to find small amounts get everywhere. Ron Cole used that on Solar Cells when you could buy Radium paint, Watch makers used it and died from it. Even if I give the warnings it would be ignored by some I just would not feel right about that. If you choose to use radioactive materials then best of luck as I can not recommend that to the group. My mix is bad enough to work with what I'm using and take every precaution I can, but I know it's not good enough around people. I will just contain myself to just gathering rocks and crushing them to find the answer.
Hope you all understand.
John B

Thank you for the quick answer. I do respect your decisions and I'm sure other respect it too. We all look forward to what you find next that we all can build. Thank you for your time and effort.