Bedini Earth Light

[sucahyo]

Excellent link and info mikrovolt and Ross.

to sucahyo, sorry about your first cell, The instructional format has been utube as alot of excitement lots of different trials announced,

Thank you. Since it is already too late to cancel it, I plan to keep charging it. It is mentioned few times that gel battery become dry when overcharged too often because the gassification. So let this be a test to see if "drying" with charging can be done. Some people complain the battery become crystalized isn't it? Battery has voltage but no charge after that though .........

Currrently charge with >10V single diode radiant output. I seen double voltage recently, so I guess it is not dry yet. My meter inaccurate but seems to be around 1.5 times nicad charge. maybe 2.5V or so.

Since I charge it then maybe the can (minus) is deoxidized and the copper (plus) is oxidized.

I believe i added too much zinc oxide to the cement, or that the cell lacks an electrolyte (i forgot the borax) as there is just .64 v and no mA.

Wet or dried?

[Peter Lindemann]

Which Alum are you Using?

Here is a list of common elements with the highest +/- ion count, I balanced them for your review, but they could be made unbalanced if needed.

3 +/- ions:
Aluminium(3+) Phosphate(3-)
Iron(III)(3+) Phosphate(3-)

2 +/- ions:
Calcium(2+) Oxide(2-)
Copper(II)(2+) Oxide(2-)
Magnesium(2+) Oxide(2-)
Calcium(2+) Sulfate(2-)
Copper(II)(2+) Sulfate(2-)
Magnesium(2+) Sulfate(2-)
Calcium(2+) Carbonate(2-)
Copper(II)(2+) Carbonate(2-)
Magnesium(2+) Carbonate(2-)

1 +/- ions
Potassium(1+)
Sodium(1+)
Silver(1+)
Chloride(1-)
Hydroxide(1-)
Nitrate(1-)

Here's Alum's ion count:
Potassium(1+)Aluminium(3+)Sulfate(2-)

Ross W

Dear Ross,

I was at John's shop a few weeks ago when John poured out the contents of a large battery and replaced the electrolyte with an Alum-water mix. After the switch-over, the battery performed extremely well. I got interested in understanding the chemistry, so I looked up Alum on Google.

Alum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This page has been linked in this thread before, but I repeat the exercise for this reason. Everyone here seems to believe that the Alum you are using is the first one listed, namely Potassium Aluminum Sulfate. Not being satisfied with guessing, I went to the page for the Alum that John used in the battery, namely the specific Alum sold by McCormick & Company, Inc., a major spice seller in the USA. Their page on the Alum they sell is here:

Alum

This is the exact product that I watched John put in the battery.

You may notice, right in the first line, they say their product is Ammonium Aluminum Sulfate. When reading the main page on Wikipedia about Alum, most of the uses for Alum refer to Potassium Alum, such as the Styptic Pencils used as a blood coagulant, etc. This is not the same compound that John and Chuck have been putting in there experiments.

Understanding which Alum you are using seems important if one is to truly understand the chemistry involved.

Peter

[FRC]

Clay

@everyidea
I was just reading about some of that as well. One thing too add is CLAY. Alot of the minerals in clay have bonded water. They also contain high amount of alumina. Britannica has alot if you look around.
Matt

I forgot to mention that I did use clay in my battery - unscented cat litter - dried clay. My voltage readings seem to be in the range of everyone else's .
For the silica I will try the silicate from the small packets put in vitamin containers for my next battery.

[blackchisel97]

Dear Ross,

I was at John's shop a few weeks ago when John poured out the contents of a large battery and replaced the electrolyte with an Alum-water mix. After the switch-over, the battery performed extremely well. I got interested in understanding the chemistry, so I looked up Alum on Google.

Alum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This page has been linked in this thread before, but I repeat the exercise for this reason. Everyone here seems to believe that the Alum you are using is the first one listed, namely Potassium Aluminum Sulfate. Not being satisfied with guessing, I went to the page for the Alum that John used in the battery, namely the specific Alum sold by McCormick & Company, Inc., a major spice seller in the USA. Their page on the Alum they sell is here:

Alum

This is the exact product that I watched John put in the battery.

You may notice, right in the first line, they say their product is Ammonium Aluminum Sulfate. When reading the main page on Wikipedia about Alum, most of the uses for Alum refer to Potassium Alum, such as the Styptic Pencils used as a blood coagulant, etc. This is not the same compound that John and Chuck have been putting in there experiments.

Understanding which Alum you are using seems important if one is to truly understand the chemistry involved.

Peter

Thank you for clarification Now I'm puzzled since i got mine in bulk spice store and label on the bin said "alum". I used in one battery conversion and she is charging up to 16V. I also used the same in cement batteries but which one I got I have no idea.


Vtech

[John_Bedini]

Crystal Alum Cell

To All,
Yes Peter has the correct Alum,Ammonium Aluminum Sulfate This is food grade. I have not tried the other Alum yet but I have it at work. I want to report on Ibpointless's Battery with two aluminum electrodes. It's doing very well with Cement and water glass. I have a 1.6K load on it and it has been holding at 286Mv all this time. but I guess it proves that it does work with like electrodes. I will check it in the morning again to see if it has lost power. What I have found that the oxides work the best I'm trying to devise electrodes like semiconductors with oxide plating when I work it out I will post it. Solid state batteries work the best with semiconductor posts for electrodes and the crystal lattice in-between them. One doping material that will give some Ions is sulphur . Lets get the doping right and what I mean by that is very little not a bag full. Alum is very important as it protects your electrodes. Alum batteries were known in the 1800's and were discontinued because they did not need any replacement electrodes. They were at full power anytime, if they were low a few drops of Alum water brought them right back. I have made a successful Alum sulphur crystal battery here using copper and Magnesium the electrodes are as clean as new. Alum is the Key ingredient in these cells along with water glass, cement, calcium carbonate, some doping and maybe silica as it is ions your moving in this cell. Try to keep it all Crystal. You will not find allot of current because the impedance of the cell is very high. so the load resistance is high also. The circuits running on these cells are low power, but it's a start. I will try to youtube making a Alum sulphur crystal cell and then you can see that it does not take very much doping material.
John B

[Matthew Jones]

.....I have another idea about using radiator sealer instead of pure sodium silicate. Sealer is basically the same stuff but has also aluminum and copper in it.

Vtech

I have been using the Bars radiator sealer with the copper flakes. It really works good. One cell I have is built up to 1.40 v standing and 55 ma initially on the draw. 70% portland, 15% marble chip powdered, 5% marble chip granulated, 10 percent Bars radiator sealer with copper. Aluminum channel (1.75" Square hollow bar) 4" tall and a coil of #4 stranded copper wire coiled around a 1/2 bar. I remove the bar of course.
The aluminum based stuff doesn't seem to kick out as well. 1.2 volt or 25 ma.
I don't want to mix the 2 but I have thought about layering. Keeping the aluminum sealer based mix to the outside then using the copper based mix to the inside. I might try that today.

The copper stuff works real well for sure though. Its worth trying out. All the parts stores have too.

@edit: One more thing. If both ends of aluminum jacket are open that will allow the concrete to dry faster. Cement expels its water to the nearest surface for about 10 days. After that whatever is left inside will most likely stay there. If you have a Sander you can vibrate your cell. This will allow you to use a really tight mix and still get the portland to fill all the cracks.

Matt

[citfta]

Neat idea Matt

Using the sander to settle the concrete is a really neat idea Matt. I have seen the vibrators they use to settle concrete when pouring a wall but I never thought of using a sander to do the same thing. Great Idea.

Carroll

[dragon]

Peter, John... what was the mix ratio for the Alum battery ( Alum to water ). I have a couple Trojan batteries that still work well but their getting toward the end of thier life expectancy. These would make good candidates for testing.

Thanks....

[everyidea]

Thanks Peter and John

@Peter: Thanks for the clarification, that makes a big difference. I've updated my post.

@John: Thanks for the reminder about sulfur and the tip regarding semiconductors around the electrodes.

This is a good page to learn more about Ionization energy. You'll see that many of the elements we are using are on this list:

Ionization energy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here is a list of elements and the energy needed to strip an electron from the atom's first orbital band (the smaller the number the better):

Sodium: 496 kJ/mol
Aluminum: 577 kJ/mol
Magnesium: 738 kJ/mol
Silicon: 786 kJ/mol
Sulfur: 999.6 kJ/mol

Ross W

[Lidmotor]

Quick Cell----Just use "Quikrete"

@All
I am using a product called "Quikrete Mortar Mix". Here it a link to it:

Find a Quikrete 10 Lb. Mortar Mix - 110210 at The Home Depot

It is portland cement premixed with masonry sand. The ONLY reason that I used it was that it was at my local hardware store, it came in a small 10 lb. bag, and cost only $5. There might be similar products in other countries. Anyway right or wrong this seems to be working out. I have tried a number of different additives to dope it up and it still sets up OK. If you just use the Quikrete Motar Mix alone ( in an aluiminum can and copper wire), you still get about 1 volt when it sets up. It is not much but it is a fast way to get started with this project. The first one that I did with the added beach sand back on 2/21/11 is still going. Adding other things to the mix seems to just improve the cell performance. The Quikrete company sells all kinds of other mixtures including straight portland cement. My situation was that I needed to buy a small bag of SOMETHING to get it by my wife and into the house. If any of you are working on a kitchen counter top in a small dwelling ----you will understand where I am coming from. I could work in my garage but part of my quest for all these project is to be able to do them in the house. A back injury a few years ago drove me to this. When I was first injured all I could do (that didn't hurt) was sit upright in a chair and work on something at a table with my hands. I started studying John Bedini's amazing SSG and decided that I might be able to build one on the table with common items. I made a crude model using a plastic jar lid as the rotor. It worked, I made a video of it, and started calling myself Lidmotor. Many projects and hundreds of videos later here I am. My back is better now but I still try to do the projects strickly in the house. It is a major challenge and fun.

Cheers,

Lidmotor

[chuck H]

Making Oxides and Sulphites

Here We show how to make some of the Oxides and Sulphites We will be using in the Crystal Cells with common materials around the home or shop.
These should take about 3-4 days to make...

YouTube - John making copper oxide and aluminium oxide.wmv

[john_g]

Result of rubbing magnesium with murcury

Hi

I know the thread has moved on from the carbon/magnesium batt, however I'm reporting back on the results from rubbing the magnesium with murcury. As can be seen from the picture, the battery with the murcury treatment shows little corrosion when compared with the untreated magnesium.

http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/2634116/carbon-mag-batt-corrosion-jpg-march-1-2011-6-15-pm-436k?da=y

Regards

John

[John_Bedini]

Alum Battery

Dragon,
You mix 3.75 ounces of Alum Granulated in hot water make sure it is dissolved in the water.
John B

[dragon]

Thanks John, is that per gallon of water?

[blackchisel97]

liquid copper and aluminum

I have been using the Bars radiator sealer with the copper flakes. It really works good. One cell I have is built up to 1.40 v standing and 55 ma initially on the draw. 70% portland, 15% marble chip powdered, 5% marble chip granulated, 10 percent Bars radiator sealer with copper. Aluminum channel (1.75" Square hollow bar) 4" tall and a coil of #4 stranded copper wire coiled around a 1/2 bar. I remove the bar of course.
The aluminum based stuff doesn't seem to kick out as well. 1.2 volt or 25 ma.
I don't want to mix the 2 but I have thought about layering. Keeping the aluminum sealer based mix to the outside then using the copper based mix to the inside. I might try that today.

The copper stuff works real well for sure though. Its worth trying out. All the parts stores have too.

@edit: One more thing. If both ends of aluminum jacket are open that will allow the concrete to dry faster. Cement expels its water to the nearest surface for about 10 days. After that whatever is left inside will most likely stay there. If you have a Sander you can vibrate your cell. This will allow you to use a really tight mix and still get the portland to fill all the cracks.

Matt

Just got back from the store. I got two bottles of liquid copper and liquid aluminum radiator and intake "stop leak" by Rislone. They're 510g copper and 475g aluminum. Same volume. I was also looking at aluminum screen door mesh. Maybe it could be employed in our test as well?
I have one cell in aluminum can but I also put piece of aluminum pipe in the center of copper coil. I'm getting better reading between copper and pipe than copper and can. I know that they clear coat cans inside, maybe this causes the difference. My oldest cells read +1.4V but mA varies.

@John Thanks for sulfur tip


Vtech