Bedini Ferris Wheel Regauging Motor

[RS_]

Scott,

Put a NE2 neon on the collector of the 94, then to a 5.6K resistor to Gnd

Put a NE2 neon on the collector of the 93, then to a 5.6K resistor to Pos

This will help keep the spike from killing the trannys, the same way you do with a Large SSG using the 94's...........

when you get them installed, and they glow or blink while running, than you are saving your Trannys........

It may be time to abandon the Bread Board and do a hard soldered up circuit, so that the connections between the Transistors and FWBR or Diodes is shortest, and fat.....

RS

[erikbuch]

Thanx alot Ron!

Great to have something to compare with!

I've just fiddeled together my first testcircuit for this machine, based upon JohnK's Bedini gt3 Rev 1.5 circuit.

I'm not very experienced in this circuit stuff, but I'm really eager to learn ,and learning I am for sure

Nothing to show really, compared to you guys, but maybe there's someone like me out there, that can see it's not impossible.

Will have to change the wiring to batteries and coils to something bigger ofcource.
Cant wait to get home from work and continue with the build of the wheel.

Thanks everyone

Erik
bildecircuit.JPG

[Rl2003]

New board

All,
I put together a board today with four parallel 94's and four 93's. I was looking for
a heat sink long enought and ran across 10 circuit boards I had bought from Rick F.
for the 10 coil machine. I never got to building it yet.. Any way the board worked
for this circuit, with a few modifications and a couple jumpers I was able to put all
eight transistors on one board. I just removed the copper tracks in the middle.
It would have been quicker to have use two seperate boards, but I did drill a few
new holes and it's clean.
I did not add the extra MPS8599 pnp in the circuit and when I tested the board, it
turns on the 94's and they stay on. Any idea's why? Maybe the 2955 is bad. I will
check tomorrow.
Heres a video of the two MJL's and the eight MJL's on the 10 coil board.

YouTube - Bedini GT3

Mark

[mbonheur]

Capacitor discharging: Farads and Volts

Hello everyone,

I've been doing capacitor discharge experiments for quit some time and wish to discuss it with you. My test setup is simple:

On one side:
I pulse a multi strands coil at various frequencies and duty cycles, recharging a 16 000uF 50V capacitor. I use a PIC to vary the frequencies and duty cycles precisely.
Second side:
I use the same PIC to discharge the capacitor every X pulses, with a specified amount of time. The circuit is the same as original Bedini cappulser(H11D1, 2N3440 and MJL15024), except for the 555 timer replaced by PIC.

here are my observations:

1- Using constant 15V@1Amp to power the cap recharger and varying the quantity of pulses before discharging, I find it's best to pulse more frequently with less voltage accumulated than accumulating longer for a higher voltage and pulsing less frequently. So, I observed it's best to keep the battery pulsed with 20V cap-pulses 2-3 times a second than with 30V cap-pulse every second.

2- From the Coil pulser, I can learn some other things. Using only one transistor for pulsing many strands, I feel I'm unable to get the most out of the device. I would like to get more energy recharging the capacitor out of this setup, but it seems saturated to a degree. Using the RamPump as an analogy, I think I have big pipes but just a small valve switching. To make the Raming more "brutal" and extract more energy from it, I would need a bigger valve(or for each parallel strand a transistor-matched).

3- In this same RamPump analogy. It is good to get the excess pressure from quickly stopping the follow of the falling water column. This is what, I think, happens in the single diode Bedini SG circuit. But if we look at the other side of the valve when quickly stopping the water column, we should get a violent suction due to the sudden lack of matter flowing. This is where the bipolar Bedini-Cole switch comes into play. This switching device would get all the pushes and pulls inline into the capacitor. I already build and experimented with the Bedini-Cole switch but was disapointed by the limited output power pulsing into the coil. I'll be making a parallel version soon.

I'm waiting for your feedbacks, I hope we'll all agree on some of these observations.

Patrick

[mbonheur]

Capacitor discharging: Farads and Volts

Another observation I made:

By controlling the capacitor discharge via the PIC, I was able to pulse-discharge the circuit for a specific amount of time. This enabled me to partially discharge the capacitor. I experimented keeping the capacitor at a higher Vdc value by partially discharging it. This didn't give me more recharging efficiency. I tried various schemes on this:

- recharging capacitor to 31 and discharging it to 25V
- recharging capacitor to 24 and discharging it to 18V
- recharging capacitor to 31 and discharging it to 28V


It seems we all need to match the capacitor uF with the specific output of our machine so it does recharge to the needed value and discharges fully 2-3 times a second. 63% of the max voltage value would be ideal target for this capacitor? I don't know this yet but it seems I have the right capacitor voltage value(50V) if I'm to pulse it when it reaches 31Volt.

I experimented on many battery types and sizes. It also seems every battery will have it's own expectations for the pulse frequency and strength. With the current device I'm using to pulse the coil, I cannot get the 16 000uF recharged fast enough to pulse it at 31V... I need to lower the capacitor uF value OR find a better way to switch this coil to get a faster capacitor recharge.

[Ron Chase]

Thanx alot Ron!

Great to have something to compare with!

I've just fiddeled together my first testcircuit for this machine, based upon JohnK's Bedini gt3 Rev 1.5 circuit.

I'm not very experienced in this circuit stuff, but I'm really eager to learn ,and learning I am for sure

Nothing to show really, compared to you guys, but maybe there's someone like me out there, that can see it's not impossible.

Will have to change the wiring to batteries and coils to something bigger ofcource.
Cant wait to get home from work and continue with the build of the wheel.

Thanks everyone

Erik
[ATTACH]7981[/ATTACH]

Hi Erik,

I copy and pasted the wrong slave coil info in my previous post to you. It was for a smaller version of the ferris wheel. Here's the correct information.

R total = 2 ohms with all windings and all coils in parallel.

Main coil
18 awg, 2,192' one winding = 14 ohm, 2 in parallel = 7 ohm. Total of 4,384'.
21 awg, 2,187' per winding = 28 ohm, 2 in parallel = 14 ohm. Total of 4,374'.

Slaves
18 awg, 1,096' per winding = 7 ohm, 2 in parallel = 3.5 ohm. Total of 2,192'.
All windings in parallel = 2.0 ohms.


Center coil reel measures 6.75" tall x 6.75" wide

Slave coil reels measure 4" tall x 6.25" wide.

I enlarged the center hole of the reels to 1 11/16" (43mm) diameter for the R60 welding rod core.

Sorry for the error, Ron.

[Ron Chase]

Another observation I made:

By controlling the capacitor discharge via the PIC, I was able to pulse-discharge the circuit for a specific amount of time. This enabled me to partially discharge the capacitor. I experimented keeping the capacitor at a higher Vdc value by partially discharging it. This didn't give me more recharging efficiency. I tried various schemes on this:

- recharging capacitor to 31 and discharging it to 25V
- recharging capacitor to 24 and discharging it to 18V
- recharging capacitor to 31 and discharging it to 28V


It seems we all need to match the capacitor uF with the specific output of our machine so it does recharge to the needed value and discharges fully 2-3 times a second. 63% of the max voltage value would be ideal target for this capacitor? I don't know this yet but it seems I have the right capacitor voltage value(50V) if I'm to pulse it when it reaches 31Volt.

I experimented on many battery types and sizes. It also seems every battery will have it's own expectations for the pulse frequency and strength. With the current device I'm using to pulse the coil, I cannot get the 16 000uF recharged fast enough to pulse it at 31V... I need to lower the capacitor uF value OR find a better way to switch this coil to get a faster capacitor recharge.

Hi Patrick,
Thank you for for doing these experiments and sharing your results. This is very useful information especially when trouble shooting the cap dump circuitry. This has been talked about at various times and your information should help clarify the optimum amount of cap charge versus dump time and making the adjustments for the battery bank being charged.

Thanks again,

Ron Chase

[minoly]

Diode

I can't find the post, does any one else remember JB mentioning that the diode/s need to be right at/on the coil?
I thought I remember him mentioning that this is CRUCIAL.
I can't tell from the photos if anyone has done this yet and noticed a difference.

Patrick

[BrentA929]

Cap pulser circuit

@All

Scott thinks I'm crazy, but I can't get the below post out of my head...

John B. says he uses a FET (IRF260) and a Zener (in other posts) to discharge the capacitor. I have tried many different combination to get this to work with no luck!

But here's the thing...we know we have junk batteries and the SCR does not allow for good switching with these batteries. So if we disconnect power then reconnect, we get INCREDIBLE switching with the SCR and the switching acts like what I think it should with a FET. We can do this manually at about three times per second like what John B. has mentioned, so it is very promising. I feel like this is one of the missing pieces to getting our machine working right! Has anyone figured this out?


Thanks, Brent


*NOTE* We have made a new timing wheel with 1" magnets at 1 to 1 spacing and our charging has gone way up!

Bedini GT 16-3
I think I have been over this a couple hundred times.
I said That I made modifications to the Bedini Cole Switch. I have paralleled the transistors all Bata matched and that the timing must be just right to give the most voltage to the capacitor , Everybody has seen waveforms on how capacitors charge and discharge, yes it's like a sawtooth wave. I also said that you must double the voltage to charge the battery under pulse. Think about what I'm saying about charging batteries under pulse. John K is giving very good advice here about the condition of your batteries. I also said that I'm using a Fet to pulse my batteries and I told you what it was IRF260. I also said that the diodes were mounted as close to the switching rails as possible. Bad sulphated batteries will not work right with the SCR and it will not discharge the energy. The Impedance of the battery is very important with the SCR in you can not have junk batteries, gel cells become a big pain in your As.... as the impedance is all over the place. Discharging the FET you must choose the voltage and then discharge it with the timing wheel if you need to that, this is why I wanted to use the SIDAC to make this simple so everybody could get the same resaults.
John B

[Web000x]

I can't find the post, does any one else remember JB mentioning that the diode/s need to be right at/on the coil?
I thought I remember him mentioning that this is CRUCIAL.
I can't tell from the photos if anyone has done this yet and noticed a difference.

Patrick

I am not sure if he want the diodes close the the switch (transistors) or the coil. The post is kind of ambiguous, but here it is: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post119435

Dave

[minoly]

I am not sure if he want the diodes close the the switch (transistors) or the coil. The post is kind of ambiguous, but here it is: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post119435

Dave

That's the one I remember, it makes sense because in all builds we've seen in videos and such, JB puts the diode on the switch and the switch next to or even on the coil. like his 10 coiler etc. Rick's kit's are the first ones to deviate from that so maybe it's not as important on the SSG...

It also makes sense, because the energy has all that velocity from going in circles, it might tend to slow down or the potential will decrease some, if it hits a straight line. that must be why he has the big bus waiting for it at the coil and at the diode. so the energy can just let loose.

Thanks for finding and posting that link thought I was starting to imagine it since all I could find were the posts relating to the proximity to the switch. I always assumed it was for cleanliness and tidiness. That's what happens when you stick your head in a box, sometimes you can't get it out.

Patrick

[mbonheur]

That's the one I remember, it makes sense because in all builds we've seen in videos and such, JB puts the diode on the switch and the switch next to or even on the coil. like his 10 coiler etc. Rick's kit's are the first ones to deviate from that so maybe it's not as important on the SSG...

It also makes sense, because the energy has all that velocity from going in circles, it might tend to slow down or the potential will decrease some, if it hits a straight line. that must be why he has the big bus waiting for it at the coil and at the diode. so the energy can just let loose.

Thanks for finding and posting that link thought I was starting to imagine it since all I could find were the posts relating to the proximity to the switch. I always assumed it was for cleanliness and tidiness. That's what happens when you stick your head in a box, sometimes you can't get it out.

Patrick

Like I said in my last messages, I think the RamPump analogy makes sense again. The two stresses from the rapid closing of the gate are stronger right at the gate/valve than at the end of the extended pipe; the pipe material absorbs some of the stress.

So, I strongly think one should put the diode(s) as close as possible from the switching device.

Pat

[Rl2003]

Brent,
I put the FET circuit together and have no working results to speak of.
The Cap charged up to 65 volts very quickly and I shut it down before it pops.
I have triple check the circuit and it looks ok but somethings not right.
It will not discharge into the sec. batteries.
My SCR and Led circuit works well and will charge the secondarys some what..
When I removed the two slave coils, the milliamps drop from around 375 to 125.
At this time I am not sure why it jumps up when re-connecting the slaves,
but I am trying some different thing. I let you
know if I get the FET circuit working.
Mark

@All

Scott thinks I'm crazy, but I can't get the below post out of my head...

John B. says he uses a FET (IRF260) and a Zener (in other posts) to discharge the capacitor. I have tried many different combination to get this to work with no luck!

But here's the thing...we know we have junk batteries and the SCR does not allow for good switching with these batteries. So if we disconnect power then reconnect, we get INCREDIBLE switching with the SCR and the switching acts like what I think it should with a FET. We can do this manually at about three times per second like what John B. has mentioned, so it is very promising. I feel like this is one of the missing pieces to getting our machine working right! Has anyone figured this out?


Thanks, Brent


*NOTE* We have made a new timing wheel with 1" magnets at 1 to 1 spacing and our charging has gone way up!

[Web000x]

Like I said in my last messages, I think the RamPump analogy makes sense again. The two stresses from the rapid closing of the gate are stronger right at the gate/valve than at the end of the extended pipe; the pipe material absorbs some of the stress.

So, I strongly think one should put the diode(s) as close as possible from the switching device.

Pat

I have always thought of this type of sudden switch opening to be essentially like a ram pump. Nice analogy.

The collectors of the MJL21193 & '94's are connected to the back plate of the transistors. All of my transistors are attached to a heat sink; one for the PNP's and one for the NPN's.

Whenever I put my fingers across them to check for heating, I can feel the energy from the spike. This is happening even though my scope shot says that nothing is going over 25V from the spike. (Cap charge = 25V/Battery = 12V)

It is almost like there is unused potential that flowing through my fingers. It is definitely not all making it through my FWBR which could be closer to the switch. Maybe ultrafast diodes should be used in abundance close to the switch.

2 cents,

Dave

[Web000x]

@Mark/John K/Brent & Scott/Les K

How did your MJL21193's and 94's measure out beta wise? Did any of you have the issue of the 93's having a much high beta than the 94's?

All of my PNP's had a much higher current gain than the NPN's. When measured on a meter with an hFE setting, the PNP's were 3 times as much as the NPN's.

@Brent

But here's the thing...we know we have junk batteries and the SCR does not allow for good switching with these batteries. So if we disconnect power then reconnect, we get INCREDIBLE switching with the SCR and the switching acts like what I think it should with a FET. We can do this manually at about three times per second like what John B. has mentioned, so it is very promising. I feel like this is one of the missing pieces to getting our machine working right! Has anyone figured this out?

How exactly is it switching better?

Is disconnecting and reconnecting causing a boost in capacitor charging?

Could you possibly make a short video?



Dave