BobBrown's Bedini type Solid State Trial

[Guest]

One way discussionPATHS ~ Mind Energetics

Having some trouble getting shematic posted, gona close this, so I don't loose it, and try a reply

[Guest]

Bah, schematic is in Jpg form, about 1.3 megabites. Eny ideas how to upload it? or copy paste it ? Begining to hate pictures.
Andrew T

[Bit's-n-Bytes]

Andrew, try saving as a*.gif or *.bmp file.

Bit's

[Guest]

Hello

Removed old attachment, schematic, to save space on the server.
New updated and hopfuly improved schematic is below. ( Post number 16 )

Thankyou
Andrew T

[ren]

Hi Bob Brown.

I feel you could somewhat simplify your schematic, thats if I understand what you are trying to achieve.

Is it your intent to deliver multiple pulses to the coil for a single discharge on the recovery side, or does it operate on a 1 : 1 basis ie pulse coil, switch off, discharge capacitor, repeat?

Does that make sense?

Or is your intent to have the coil shut off when the capacitor discharges? Im sorry Im not too up to date on 555 timers. I do know they come in pairs, the 556 for example, it may be possible that it offers an advantage. Guyla on this forum is good with them I believe.

As for the optical isolator.

The pulse from pin 3 on ic1 is the triggering of the capacitive discharge I believe. All that needs to be done is have pin three join to pin 1 on your h11d1 and come out of pin 2, through some resistance (330 ohms or LED etc) and back to ground. The output transistor of your h11d1 is then darlingtoned to the T3 transistor. Select a suitable transistor here, if dumping higher voltages, say over 100v then you should use the ones listed on his schematics. You can use bigger caps, but you may find you need to change the SCR to a FET or Strong Transistor.

Regards

[Guest]

Hello ! Thankyou for the reply !!

Hi Bob Brown.

Is it your intent to deliver multiple pulses to the coil for a single discharge on the recovery side, or does it operate on a 1 : 1 basis ie pulse coil, switch off, discharge capacitor, repeat?


Or is your intent to have the coil shut off when the capacitor discharges? Im sorry Im not too up to date on 555 timers. I do know they come in pairs, the 556 for example, it may be possible that it offers an advantage. Guyla on this forum is good with them I believe.

Regards

The Main intent is to shut off the pulsing of the coil, when the Capacitor is being discharged. thereby allowing a clean Capacitor discharge to the Charge Battery ( B2 ). This may allow, in future wiring for the capacitor to charge the Primary battery at the same time.

How meny times I pulse the coil before discharging the Capacitor ( C7 ) I do not know. I intend to fill the Capacitor, leaving sufficient emptyness so it does not explode, then discharge it. Depending on my coil, depending on my ability to make a clean pulse, depending on how fast the capacitor takes a charge, will deturmine when the discharge will take place.

Bit of an unknown area here, in that, can I pulse 500 volts of the capacitor into a 12 volt battery? Or is it the higher the voltage, shorter the pulse the better? LOL , haven't been able to pin down what the Capacitor is for, except that it converts the radient energy to useful energy..... shrug.

Andrew T
Master of the Universe !
So long as the universe fits in my beer mug

[Guest]

Hi Bob Brown.

As for the optical isolator.

The pulse from pin 3 on ic1 is the triggering of the capacitive discharge I believe. All that needs to be done is have pin three join to pin 1 on your h11d1 and come out of pin 2, through some resistance (330 ohms or LED etc) and back to ground. The output transistor of your h11d1 is then darlingtoned to the T3 transistor. Select a suitable transistor here, if dumping higher voltages, say over 100v then you should use the ones listed on his schematics. You can use bigger caps, but you may find you need to change the SCR to a FET or Strong Transistor.

Regards

Actualy , no. When the 555 timer (IC1 ) goes high, it is signaling the Second 555 tiimer ( IC2 ) to fill the coil with pulses. When IC1 goes low, this low signal is sent to IC3 the 741IC, the 741 notices that the signal voltage is less then the voltage on pin3 of IC3 ( 741 ) and thus send a high signal to the base of T3, activating the scr dump. I guess that would mean, putting the opti coupler, between pin 6 of IC3 and T3, if needed?

Andrew T
Darn drank all the beer, on just one post

[sucahyo]

The Main intent is to shut off the pulsing of the coil, when the Capacitor is being discharged. thereby allowing a clean Capacitor discharge to the Charge Battery ( B2 ). This may allow, in future wiring for the capacitor to charge the Primary battery at the same time.

You may need to disconnect the primary from the circuit while charging. Charging while utilizing may ruin the battery.

Bit of an unknown area here, in that, can I pulse 500 volts of the capacitor into a 12 volt battery? Or is it the higher the voltage, shorter the pulse the better? LOL , haven't been able to pin down what the Capacitor is for, except that it converts the radient energy to useful energy..... shrug.

Yes. Mechanical pulsing is the best but some use SCR or fast transistor. I think capacitor voltage should be at least 400V.


BTW, I attach something that I would use. Capacitor pulsing timing is decided by resistor and capacitor in the relay.

edit: just notice wrong line when building this for real. corrected. I don't have 400V so I use 10000uF/50V. 555 at KHz range, relay at 2Hz range, battery voltage charge at measured 16V.

[Guest]

Working on it

Hello and Thankyou !

So you think a mechanical relay would give better performance then an SCR or FET? I was shying away from relays, personal choice, in that they never seem to last long, I'll look for some , maybe they make them better these days.

That schematic is beautiful, unfortunatly I can't understand it. Would you mind showing me a few pointers? A brief descrition?

The primary battery gets a small recharge from the collapsing coil field, no matter what I do. Thats just the way Bedini designed it ( I think ). however, I'm told that so long as the Primary is not being used to power the system ( a minute , a second, a nanosecond ) It is safe to pulse a recharge into it, from the capacitor. I guess the proof will be when my Primary dies

Thankyou
Andrew T
BEERS ON ME !

[sucahyo]

So you think a mechanical relay would give better performance then an SCR or FET? I was shying away from relays, personal choice, in that they never seem to last long, I'll look for some , maybe they make them better these days.

Mechanical is the most efficient but unfortunately less durable. Since we do not create spark in this charging, it last longer. I just build it with 50 cents one, let see how long it last. The contact is dirty at first so I have to clean it before it can run. Currently run without the resistor at the relay at about 2Hz.

There is error in my previous design. I fixed it.

The circuit work by switching the coil on and off with the KSC5027, can be replaced with any fast switching transistor. It is triggered by TIP2955 to improve the signal of 555. The radiant coil collapse current from the coil is collected in 10000uF capacitor.

The 10000uF capacitor is connected to charged battery at the positive terminal. When the relay switched on the battery negative will be connected to the capacitor negative. Because the relay is power get turned off when the relay switched on it will switched off eventually when the voltage of 330uF capacitor no longer able to power the relay.


the left part of the relay is the part of relay which will swith the relay on when you give current. The right part show one movable lever and two stationary. The left stationary will be touched by the movable lever when turned on.

Good luck with the battery, right or wrong it still a valuable information .

edit: afetr two hour the relay still working consistently. I guess for this application relay is reliable enough. I don't notice self charging but the voltage seems sticky, although it warm up two nicad for just 10 minutes.

[Guest]

Replacing the 741

Hello !

I'd like to replace the 741 , and the huge amount of added complication it represents, but I have not been able to find a THINGY that will take the low signal of the 555 timer and turn it high, to operate the transister that turns on the SCR.
From what I'm told the low signal of the 555 timer, is between .25 Volts and 2 volts, so it does not go negative, but rather just above zero volts. And most the components I've looked at only switch when the signal goes negative.

Andrew T

[sucahyo]

I'd like to replace the 741 , and the huge amount of added complication it represents, but I have not been able to find a THINGY that will take the low signal of the 555 timer and turn it high, to operate the transister that turns on the SCR.

If you mean inverting the signal, the TIP2955 in my circuit purposes is to invert the signal because I don't know about diode trick before to get sub 50% duty cycle for the 555. I still kept the TIP2955 now because I learn that it improve the output very significantly.

[sucahyo]

Just notice that there is no arrow in transistor in your diagram. can you add it?

BTW, have you built this circuit yet? because It is weird seeing how the electricity move. How the T3 transistor get voltage between it's base and emitter if T3 transistor do not connect the same negative as the 555 or 741?

I also think it should be better if T1 is used to switch at the negative side of the IC2, which guarantee an easier flow from IC1 output to T1 base to T1 emitter to negative.

If you intend to pulse at duration around 500ms, try my circuit.

Or use relay controlling two switch. I think you can push it to 250ms duration. Use capacitor and potentiometer for controlling duration. one switch decide connection to capacitor, other decide connection from capacitor to battery.

Look for DPDT relay
DPDT 1A Miniature Relay : General Purpose Relays : Maplin

[Guest]

Tip2955

Hello Sucahyo !

Are you saying that the transiter TIP2955 activates when the output of your 555 timer is low ? Also I was wondering why your base resister is so high there ,1100 ohms.

Presantly re drawing the schematic, lol stuck because I have no liquid paper As soon as I clean up this copy I'll post it.

Andrew T

[sucahyo]

Are you saying that the transiter TIP2955 activates when the output of your 555 timer is low ?

yes. I use NPN too because it is said that PNP like TIP2955 is less efficient.

Also I was wondering why your base resister is so high there ,1100 ohms.

To limit voltage. At that value the input current is 0.7A at 10.5V. The output to the diode is 200V measured with analog, the secondary is out of range. I just found out that I don't get more than 200V because the transformer that I use has leak and make crackling sound if I reduce the base resistor value. Internal spark jumping in the coil is also seen.

Here is the video if 100 ohm base resistance on TIP2955 is used. KSC5027 resistor is bypassed too.
YouTube - Coil sparking because too many coil collapse current

If you build my circuit, change the TIP2955 base as low as possible that allow maximum output voltage without load. Make sure to use at least 2 watt version of resistor if you use 200ohm or lower. The TIP2955 will heat up as well so make sure to add heatsink to both transistor. If you have better PNP (high speed) you can use it instead.