Bedini SG

[theremart]

A look at John's big Machine

Hey guys I'm back. Just wanted to start doing a bit of laying out some feelers
on some unanswered questions. Here is one-

John said that his "BIG" machine runs on 10 amps. 10 coils 10 amps.
Interesting that he seems to be running his machine on 1 amp per
coil. Applying the tuning technics that I have seen on all of the forums
that I have read doesn't put you anywhere near the 1 amp per coil area.
Seems everyone wants to run them on a half milliamp and a million rpm.

Peter said on one of his posts that they were way below the C-20 rate for
their banks as I am with mine. Only if you have a very small battery bank,
the C-20 rate doesn't even apply here. So you don't have to worry about
that if you have at least two 115 amp hour batteries on both sides.

So at this point I am back to wondering why John is running all of his
machines on 1 amp per coil (as he said his small machine runs on 5 amps)
which is around 1 amp per coil too, maybe a little less around 800 ma.

So unless I am going crazy (which is VERY possible), seems to me we need
to be running around 1 amp per coil, and not worrying about making the machine run at a million rpm. John said his BIG machine ran around 750 rpm. That seems about right if his coils are turned down to that 1 amp area.

Can someone here tell me if I am on the wrong track? I have many other
tracks to follow out too, but I want to get some answers on this one first.

Each coil has multiple coils, So if you break it down.... it is less. But why the fuss? LOOK AT THE SIZE OF THE BATTERIES 10 amps is very low to charge some thing that BIG. But the real thing is the 24 V. 24 V makes a BIG difference, that also and his special triggering, and special magnet config, and etc.... Do note the number of transistors per spool too...

[Littleremnant]

Hey guys I'm back. Just wanted to start doing a bit of laying out some feelers
on some unanswered questions. Here is one-

John said that his "BIG" machine runs on 10 amps. 10 coils 10 amps.
Interesting that he seems to be running his machine on 1 amp per
coil. Applying the tuning technics that I have seen on all of the forums
that I have read doesn't put you anywhere near the 1 amp per coil area.
Seems everyone wants to run them on a half milliamp and a million rpm.

Peter said on one of his posts that they were way below the C-20 rate for
their banks as I am with mine. Only if you have a very small battery bank,
the C-20 rate doesn't even apply here. So you don't have to worry about
that if you have at least two 115 amp hour batteries on both sides.

So at this point I am back to wondering why John is running all of his
machines on 1 amp per coil (as he said his small machine runs on 5 amps)
which is around 1 amp per coil too, maybe a little less around 800 ma.

So unless I am going crazy (which is VERY possible), seems to me we need
to be running around 1 amp per coil, and not worrying about making the machine run at a million rpm. John said his BIG machine ran around 750 rpm. That seems about right if his coils are turned down to that 1 amp area.

Can someone here tell me if I am on the wrong track? I have many other
tracks to follow out too, but I want to get some answers on this one first.

[Littleremnant]

Hey guys,

Thanks for chiming in. All I want to learn at this stage is how to get the tuning honed in to the perfect adjustment. I have read several technics, but
I haven't gotten any of them to work. I have to go somewhere right now, but I want to continue this until I get it perfectly in my head, as I am charging around 13 deep cycle batts and intend to start charging some golf cart ones. Thx again. I will be back.

[Hoppy]

Hi Littleremnant,

The 5 amps refers to the amount of current needed to run the charger, The charger outputs far less that the input in terms of conventional current. Normally about 50 - 60%, I'm not sure about JB's but all of mine do. Mart is correct is saying that a little current is still needed. My 135 Ah batteries normally require 20 amps to charge, but I am charging them with only a 800 mA input. The rest of the charging is done by the radiant. Now I too can run my coils at a much lower input current, but the charging rate sinks like the titanic. There is a happy medium to be found and each machine is slightly different.

Please correct me if I'm wrong people.


Cheers,


Steve.

Steve

I would generally agree with you and my experimenting suggests that the charge rate for a radiant charger is about equal to a conventional DC charger that is charging at the same current level as used to drive the radiant charger. This is providing that the input voltage to the radiant charger is the same as the DC charging voltage and that the charging batteries are the same type and capacity. The bonus available from a radiant charger is battery conditioning which can extend the life of a battery and increase its working capacity.

Clearly, varying the charging current varies the charge rate and although a battery manufacturer may recommend a big 20 Amp charger, this will be for a certain charge period and charge efficiency. Much smaller currents can be used if a longer charge period is acceptable. Generally speaking in conventioanl charging terms, the higher the charging rate the more efficient the charge process is in terms of energy expended for capacity gained for LA type batteries.

Clive

[dambit]

One for instance is this - In John's book he consistantly talks about NOT using current to push these energizers - yet he himself says that his small (six coil) machine runs on 5 amps. Wow! Now I have one machine that is a six coiler and I can get it to run way down on about 200-300 ma per coil if I want. Now 5 amps seems to me like a lot of "current". Am I wrong?

Hi Littleremnant,

The 5 amps refers to the amount of current needed to run the charger, The charger outputs far less that the input in terms of conventional current. Normally about 50 - 60%, I'm not sure about JB's but all of mine do. Mart is correct is saying that a little current is still needed. My 135 Ah batteries normally require 20 amps to charge, but I am charging them with only a 800 mA input. The rest of the charging is done by the radiant. Now I too can run my coils at a much lower input current, but the charging rate sinks like the titanic. There is a happy medium to be found and each machine is slightly different.

Please correct me if I'm wrong people.


Cheers,

Steve.

[theremart]

Good question.

Hi all. I am new to the forum, but have been reading it for at least a year. I have been building Bedini machines for about three years and have personally talked to Peter Lindeman many times and have also built some interesting machines - not quite like the pulse energizer. Peter is too busy to answer any questions at this time, so I thought I would see if I could find someone here to parlay with. I have many unanswered questions about my own machines that have never been successfully answered by anyone.

One for instance is this - In John's book he consistantly talks about NOT using current to push these energizers - yet he himself says that his small (six coil) machine runs on 5 amps. Wow! Now I have one machine that is a six coiler and I can get it to run way down on about 200-300 ma per coil if I want. Now 5 amps seems to me like a lot of "current". Am I wrong? And this statement I found in the forum
__________________
calculate the C-20 rate for your input battery. (Cold Cranking Amps / 20 = Ah of the battery; Ah / 20 gives you "C-20" rate)
as an arbitrary starting point, put a 680 ohm resistor in the base of the circuit (defined: "base resistor"), measure the input current.
adjust the resistance from there until the input current matches the C-20 rate or slightly less.
___________

Tell me if I am wrong - but the C-20 for a 115 amp hour battery would then be over 5 amps. How would you get a one coiler to run on 5 amps? I am missing something. Just for starters could someone explain this concept for me. I have a lot of interesting things to mull over here if someone will talk to me.

-----------------


Hi Welcome to the forum!

I also have struggled with this, and if I am getting the drift of what John is saying he is comparing conventional charge to this charge method. For instance on my 200 amp hour batteries they recommend over 20 - 50 amps of power to charge this battery to full charge. John's method of charging is FAR below this as a standard. So using the monopole method of charging the battery would not be using the same amount of current as compared to conventional charging, ( In his newly release video he does say it does take some current ) but in comparison to conventional charging it is way below that amount.

The method I am starting to do is to use the Bedinin method to de-sulfate the battery, then use conventional charging to charge the battery using a trickle charge. This seems to be the best of both worlds. It seems I loose alot of energy to use a Bedini type charger, but, in using the Bedini it improves the batteries so I have found it best to rotate between a low conventional charge which has very little heat given to the batteries, and use the Bedini to clean up the sulfate on the batteries. If you look at the conventional chargers Bedini sells this is what they do. They rotate between conventional charging and the Bedini charger.

Size does matter, if you think about it you don't charge a AA battery the same way you would a 12V battery. The same is true about Golf cart batteries and standard car starting batteries. You have to adjust to the thickness of the lead in the batteries..

Bedini does seem to scale up with the bigger the battery the more the transistors.

I am not an expert at this, like you have have experimented with all different types of setups to find what makes sense to me. There is a wealth of information here as you state you have read thru the forums.

I hope this helps, and wished John or Peter here would correct me where I am off track

Cheers and thanks for joining in!

[Littleremnant]

Need a lot of answers

Hi all. I am new to the forum, but have been reading it for at least a year. I have been building Bedini machines for about three years and have personally talked to Peter Lindeman many times and have also built some interesting machines - not quite like the pulse energizer. Peter is too busy to answer any questions at this time, so I thought I would see if I could find someone here to parlay with. I have many unanswered questions about my own machines that have never been successfully answered by anyone.

One for instance is this - In John's book he consistantly talks about NOT using current to push these energizers - yet he himself says that his small (six coil) machine runs on 5 amps. Wow! Now I have one machine that is a six coiler and I can get it to run way down on about 200-300 ma per coil if I want. Now 5 amps seems to me like a lot of "current". Am I wrong? And this statement I found in the forum
__________________
calculate the C-20 rate for your input battery. (Cold Cranking Amps / 20 = Ah of the battery; Ah / 20 gives you "C-20" rate)
as an arbitrary starting point, put a 680 ohm resistor in the base of the circuit (defined: "base resistor"), measure the input current.
adjust the resistance from there until the input current matches the C-20 rate or slightly less.
___________

Tell me if I am wrong - but the C-20 for a 115 amp hour battery would then be over 5 amps. How would you get a one coiler to run on 5 amps? I am missing something. Just for starters could someone explain this concept for me. I have a lot of interesting things to mull over here if someone will talk to me.

[Guruji]

perplexed on coil

Hi guys any help please.I have a bedini motor which works fine with a bifilar coil.When hitting the battery terminals for the first time the neon lights up showing BEMF.I think this is normal.
The thing is when I tried another pulse coil instead of the primary on the bifilar the neon is not lighting up.
Why is this happening?
Thanks.

[dambit]

Hello,

in reference at your excel diagram I have some questions.
The side where you are calculating the charging joules corresponds to the battery being charged. Is that correct? Then how you calculate the average resting voltage? Measuring the voltage every "x" time? and then do the average? Why you use the average to do the charge input and not the end resting voltage? In reference to the charge time, is the time that the battery takes to go from the starting voltage to the terminal voltage?
Talking about the discharging joules, it that corresponding to the primary battery? How can be possible that the circuit absorbe more or less current from one time to another (1amp to 0.625amp)? I deduced that the discharge time is the time to get the primary battery from the starting voltage to the terminal voltage (you have choosen when to take the mesurement).
I know in advance that I'm wrong in many of my intuitions and I would like that you explain me where I'm wrong and how to do the mesurements correctly.
Which type of circuitry are you working with? Have you taken in account the mechanical energy? In my case if I have a fan I should be taking in account that energy, is that correct?

Hi Pcurrius,

Ok. The charging joules calculation section is all the data that has to do with charging the battery. ie how much measurable energy is being put into it, how long it takes to reach a certain voltage etc.

The average resting voltage is simply the average of the start resting voltage and the end resting voltage. As I do not have a battery logger I just do this. It may not be as accurate but it's pretty close. I use the average resting voltage to do the watts calculation because thats how I was told to do it. If I am wrong I am happy to change it.

Yes, the charge time is exactly that. The amount of time it took for the battery to reach the termination voltage.

The discharge joules is the amount of energy used while discharging the charged battery. The reason the discharge load changed from 1 amp to 0.625amps is because I used a different light bulb to try and match the c20 discharge rate. For that particular battery 1 amp is too high.

Now, I have not taken into account any of the mechanical energy developed by my energizer. This is because I am measuring the COP of the battery and not the device. The energizer I used for this series of tests is a single coil with five windings and a trigger winding. The pic attached will show you.

I hope that was helpful to you. I have since started doing some tests on a flooded wet cell (car battery) and so far I am having better results with that than with the gell cell I used for this series of tests.

Cheers,

Steve.

[Pcurrius]

COP calculations

Hello,

in reference at your excel diagram I have some questions.
The side where you are calculating the charging joules corresponds to the battery being charged. Is that correct? Then how you calculate the average resting voltage? Measuring the voltage every "x" time? and then do the average? Why you use the average to do the charge input and not the end resting voltage? In reference to the charge time, is the time that the battery takes to go from the starting voltage to the terminal voltage?
Talking about the discharging joules, it that corresponding to the primary battery? How can be possible that the circuit absorbe more or less current from one time to another (1amp to 0.625amp)? I deduced that the discharge time is the time to get the primary battery from the starting voltage to the terminal voltage (you have choosen when to take the mesurement).
I know in advance that I'm wrong in many of my intuitions and I would like that you explain me where I'm wrong and how to do the mesurements correctly.
Which type of circuitry are you working with? Have you taken in account the mechanical energy? In my case if I have a fan I should be taking in account that energy, is that correct?

That's what I was thinking, copper is much easier to work with that brass. The only reason I am considering brass is because it holds up better in a salt water environment that copper. This charger will end up on my boat.

Cheers,

Steve.

P.S. I have attached some preliminary data on my conditioning process if any are interested. It's still early but it looks good. Turns out the c20 rate of discharge is the most efficient.
The data shows the that the extra energy is definitly in the battery, not the device.

[Druide]

Thanks for the nice words Michel. I've just got tooooo many irons in the fire right now. But I plan on building a coil winder soon. Right now, I'm taking care of, what I call, *naggers.* These are projects that got started and were left for one reason or another. Usually, I run into a snag on one project which takes ALL my time to figure out a solution.

Keep up the good works.
Warren
..

I know what you mean, I have so many irons in the fire too, some of them were there for so long that they have completely melted down... Sometimes, it's however possible to cast them in entirely new projects !

Michel

[mrbreau]

[QUOTE] Thanks Warren ! I've found that it's more tricky to twist wires together than to wind them on a spool. I've build a wire winder like the one on the Erwin's Work Shop Erwin's Work Shop Web page, not as sophisticated as Erwin's one, but using the same principle. It's much more easier this way than to wind it by hand, like I did with my first coil (and having got a few blisters on my fingers...)

Having build a Imothep/Bedini SSG fan that works just fine with small batteries, I was also thinking of using the HDD motor the same way, but I guess that it must be so tiny minuscule in there that it's a job for a Lilliputian !

Michel [END QUOTE]

Thanks for the nice words Michel. I've just got tooooo many irons in the fire right now. But I plan on building a coil winder soon. Right now, I'm taking care of, what I call, *naggers.* These are projects that got started and were left for one reason or another. Usually, I run into a snag on one project which takes ALL my time to figure out a solution.

Keep up the good works.
Warren
..

[Druide]

DRIIDE?

I LIKE your setup. Maybe one day I'll get there with coils like yours. One thing I'll have to learn is how to wind the coils properly. So far, my coils have been a disappointment. They work but not the way they should.

I'm still with the bicycle wheel for now but I have a kajillion hard disks to work with when I can get around to them. The big fascination for me is how to convert the hard disk motor to also produce some electricity. It is the challenge more than anything.

Keep up the good works.

Regards
Warren
..

Thanks Warren ! I've found that it's more tricky to twist wires together than to wind them on a spool. I've build a wire winder like the one on the Erwin's Work Shop Erwin's Work Shop Web page, not as sophisticated as Erwin's one, but using the same principle. It's much more easier this way than to wind it by hand, like I did with my first coil (and having got a few blisters on my fingers...)

Having build a Imothep/Bedini SSG fan that works just fine with small batteries, I was also thinking of using the HDD motor the same way, but I guess that it must be so tiny minuscule in there that it's a job for a Lilliputian !

Michel

[Druide]

Nice Druide,

Setup looks good, those coils look pretty long or is it the angle of the camera. Any charging stats yet?

Cheers,

Steve

[mrbreau]

Nice!

DRIIDE?

I LIKE your setup. Maybe one day I'll get there with coils like yours. One thing I'll have to learn is how to wind the coils properly. So far, my coils have been a disappointment. They work but not the way they should.

I'm still with the bicycle wheel for now but I have a kajillion hard disks to work with when I can get around to them. The big fascination for me is how to convert the hard disk motor to also produce some electricity. It is the challenge more than anything.

Keep up the good works.

Regards
Warren
..