Understanding Battery Charge in Capacitive Discharge and SSG Chargers

[elias]

Hello everyone,

I thought that there hasn't been much discussion about the type of charge in these two systems going into the battery, so I decided to start this thread.

What is the real difference? The capacitive discharge chargers seem to convert the negative energy to positive before giving it to the battery, but the SSG circuit seems to give negative energy directly to the battery. What happens when one rotates batteries in the SSG circuit, which it is told not to swap the batteries? What is the difference? Does a battery charged with SSG put out negative energy?

I don't understand this difference quite well. Has anybody got better insight to this? I hope Peter would help us understand the difference.

Elias

[Sephiroth]

What happens when one rotates batteries in the SSG circuit, which it is told not to swap the batteries?

Does anyone know where the idea that you can't swap batteries on the SSG came from?! I keep hearing it said, though can't find a source.

Has John ever said we can't? I'm sure he cycles his batteries too...

What is the real difference? The capacitive discharge chargers seem to convert the negative energy to positive before giving it to the battery, but the SSG circuit seems to give negative energy directly to the battery.

I think there is very little difference... I heard (though am not positive) that John originally thought that a capacitor would be needed to convert the negative energy into positive energy before it could be used to charge the batteries but later found that the batteries could accept the charge just as well. It doesn't look like he uses capacitors in his recent models...

[elias]

I heard (though am not positive) that John originally thought that a capacitor would be needed to convert the negative energy into positive energy before it could be used to charge the batteries but later found that the batteries could accept the charge just as well. It doesn't look like he uses capacitors in his recent models...

According to the EFTV2 documentary Bedini states so: "The spikes are collected in the end and sent to the battery. We don't need capacitors anymore. We don't need to do that if we collect all the spikes and let the battery translate it"

But I still don't understand why it is stated in the SG groups not to swap the batteries. Why does the SG drain the battery faster than a conventional load?

[Aaron]

Forward Conversion

A long time ago, John called it Forward Conversion...taking the TIME CHARGE and putting it into a cap so that it could be available as normal power.

The potential involved in charging the batteries is literally from the TIME DOMAIN. Time itself is being used as potential. The time is stored up in the high voltage spike, which has almost no pulse width (time).

I believe the radiant can be positive radiant or the radiant can be negative radiant.

Lets say that you have the negative of the battery you're charging connected to the circuit and you are pulsing a charging source positive to the charging battery positive. The battery you're charging is an extension of a dipole with the negative potential from the source ALREADY sitting inside the battery you're charging. Then you are slamming the positive potential into this. Any resistance the positive potential encounters will have some dissipation or loss.

Lets say you have the positive of the charging battery connected to the positive of a cap bank. The battery you're charging is an EXTENSION OF THE DIPOLE that the cap bank is. That means that the positive potential from the vacuum is ALREADY available inside this battery you're charging. Now let's say you pulse the cap bank from the negative side to the negative of the battery you're charging. You then are slamming the negative potential into this battery, where the positive is already sitting. Any resistance the negative potential encounters on the way will cause more negative potential to come into the circuit at those points contributing and making a stronger separation in charge... stronger charge in the battery... and it didn't come from the capacitors, it came from the vacuum.

That is where the extra energy comes from when using the negative part of potential.

When I see references to radiant being negative energy, I really see the distinction that there are both positive and negative radiant energy. I hope this helps.

For battery swapping, etc... I believe batts charged with the radiant...either type... are best suited for powering resistive loads but I am not 100% sure of this. I know John has rotated batts in the past quite a bit...probably just testing, etc... I have done the same with great results.

[Schpankme]

Big Bang is dead

A long time ago, John called it [B][U][I]Forward Conversion ...

The potential involved in charging the batteries is literally from the TIME DOMAIN. Time itself is being used as potential. The time is stored up in the high voltage spike, which has almost no pulse width (time).

Aaron,

Time like Distance and Speed is simply a measurement. Here's how i read your quote:

o Time itself is being used as potential
o Distance itself is being used as potential
o Speed itself is being used as potential

My Batteries charge better because I'm tapping the DISTANCE DOMAIN.

My Batteries charge better because I'm tapping the SPEED DOMAIN.

My Batteries charge better because I'm tapping the TIME DOMAIN.

My Batteries charge better because I'm tapping Radiant Energy.

Big Bang is dead,

- Schpankme

[Aaron]

Time

You're exactly right, it is how YOU read my quote, which may or may not have any basis in MY reality.

Why don't you start by defining what YOUR definition of time is since you feel it is simply a measurement like speed or distance. Define exactly what time is a measurement of.

[elias]

A long time ago, John called it Forward Conversion...taking the TIME CHARGE and putting it into a cap so that it could be available as normal power.

The potential involved in charging the batteries is literally from the TIME DOMAIN. Time itself is being used as potential. The time is stored up in the high voltage spike, which has almost no pulse width (time).

I believe the radiant can be positive radiant or the radiant can be negative radiant.

Lets say that you have the negative of the battery you're charging connected to the circuit and you are pulsing a charging source positive to the charging battery positive. The battery you're charging is an extension of a dipole with the negative potential from the source ALREADY sitting inside the battery you're charging. Then you are slamming the positive potential into this. Any resistance the positive potential encounters will have some dissipation or loss.

Lets say you have the positive of the charging battery connected to the positive of a cap bank. The battery you're charging is an EXTENSION OF THE DIPOLE that the cap bank is. That means that the positive potential from the vacuum is ALREADY available inside this battery you're charging. Now let's say you pulse the cap bank from the negative side to the negative of the battery you're charging. You then are slamming the negative potential into this battery, where the positive is already sitting. Any resistance the negative potential encounters on the way will cause more negative potential to come into the circuit at those points contributing and making a stronger separation in charge... stronger charge in the battery... and it didn't come from the capacitors, it came from the vacuum.

That is where the extra energy comes from when using the negative part of potential.

When I see references to radiant being negative energy, I really see the distinction that there are both positive and negative radiant energy. I hope this helps.

For battery swapping, etc... I believe batts charged with the radiant...either type... are best suited for powering resistive loads but I am not 100% sure of this. I know John has rotated batts in the past quite a bit...probably just testing, etc... I have done the same with great results.

Thanks for the explanations.
Do you mean that the simple SSG circuit charges batteries with negative radiant energy and the capacitive discharge charger charges with positive radiant energy? Now what will be the difference in the output of those batteries charged by either type? I mean current flow is current flow, or is there any difference between the current flow of batteries charged with different type of Radiant energy?

[Aaron]

positive and negative potentials

Thanks for the explanations.
Do you mean that the simple SSG circuit charges batteries with negative radiant energy and the capacitive discharge charger charges with positive radiant energy? Now what will be the difference in the output of those batteries charged by either type? I mean current flow is current flow, or is there any difference between the current flow of batteries charged with different type of Radiant energy?

Hi Elias,

Either way, I believe the batteries are being charged with both positive and negative potential at the same time. However, depending on where it is triggered, you can take advantage of one or the other.

With caps, if you are connected at negative and you pulse on the positive, you're utilizing more of the positive potential and it won't be as strong. If you are connected at the positive and you pulse on the negative, you get a stronger charge. This is what I have found over and over.

When one cap terminal and one battery terminal are connected to each other, the battery is an extension of the capacitor dipole. Negative is connected, then the negative potential at the terminal at the capacitor is ALREADY fully filled in the battery as well as the battery is an extension of this. Then pulse on the positive, the positive moves into this situation.

If you're connected at the positive, the positive potential is ALREADY fully filled in the battery from the cap and you pulse on the negative, the negative potential smacks into this situation. But in this situation, any resistance, etc... it meets causes MORE to enter the circuit...you don't get this full effect if you pulse on the positive.

When I have charged on the negative side, I can get my batteries to a higher voltage than any other way.

Current is current if the amounts of current are equal.

In normal closed loop situation, there is always a ratio of radiant to current... (radiant:current or Heaviside flowrude electron gas). When you start pulsing, even in sloppy circuits, this ratio starts to charge to more radiant and little less current. If you have ultra low capacitance, high voltage discharges at high frequency, you will be charging with super high radiant but not enough current to get the battery in real charging mode (the fluffy charge that doesn't really pull a load).

Lets say you have an empty balloon, lets say it is full of negative charge. Inflate your lungs and blow hard into this balloon. You meet resistance and there is a loss and it takes more to fill the ballon.

Lets say the balloon is already full (positive terminal from cap and batt connected)..., put the balloon to your lips and suck the air out as hard as you can. You moved the same volume of air roughly compared to the first example, but it took a lot less work to do so (for you the operator).

That isn't a perfect analogy, but gives you the idea that working with the positive or negative potentials do act different.

[elias]

Thanks Aaron

I thought to project some of my thoughts here:
I was thinking that maybe using larger gauge wire in SSG for charging is somehow like large capacitors with lower voltage in capacitive discharge chargers, and smaller gauge wire (thinner wire) is like using small capacitors and high voltage.

Smaller gauge wire has higher impedance and is unable to charge the batteries so well, small capacitors don't have enough force to move the ions of the battery just like the small gauge wire. Larger gauge wires increases charging efficiency very noticeably!

[Aaron]

wires

To connect batteries, etc... you want wires like you connect to your battery in a car...really big and thick.

You also want wires, etc.. to be STRAIGHT LINES and RIGHT ANGLE turns to be optimum for how the radiant likes to move...it doesn't like curves.
I'm not sure you'll see a difference doing this, but it is optimum.

[elias]

To connect batteries, etc... you want wires like you connect to your battery in a car...really big and thick.

You also want wires, etc.. to be STRAIGHT LINES and RIGHT ANGLE turns to be optimum for how the radiant likes to move...it doesn't like curves.
I'm not sure you'll see a difference doing this, but it is optimum.

Thanks, I will consider this in building my new energizer.

[Ewhaz]

I just finished my self oscillating unit and started my tests.

I know there is a certain amount of time that must transpire before I can see any cop=1<

I just had a few questions about what look for and what to expect

First, when I begin charging the battery.. it begins climbing. I take a reading right off the terminals without taking it off the charger. It gets up to X voltage, but when it's removed it drops slightly. Am I looking for the voltage its charged to (IE on the charger) or the voltage it drops to after removed?

Second, I know a certain amount of time must transpire before the batteries/ system get conditioned and begin putting out cop of greater than one. What am I looking for when this begins to happen, and what kind of time are we talking about for batteries to become conditioned?

Both the batteries I have are 8ah lead acid batteries.

Thanks in advance.

[Aaron]

dip in voltage

Hi Ewhaz,

When I charge my batts with the SG, the voltage climbs and climbs and then I see a little dip in the voltage. This happens even when the SG is still charging. At that point, I stop charging it...when I see the little dip in voltage.

[Jetijs]

Ewhaz,
as for conditioning the batteries, in many places there is said that you need at least 10 charging/discharging cycles to see some positive results. Of course that depends on the condition of the battery. The more cycles the better
Good luck!

[Jetijs]

Hi everyone
While several of the parts for my attraction motor are being machined, I decided to do some experiments with the Bedini cap pulser setup. I always wanted to try this out. My setup has a rotor with 12 double stacked magnets on it, N pole facin outwards. The coil is trifilar with about 500 turns of gauge 24 wire. The transistor is the MJ21194, base resistance is 200 ohms and I am using 1k 20w pot. The third winding goes to a 4A 1000V bridge rectifier. There are eight 10 000uF 60V caps in parallel connected to the bridge rectifier. Thats 80k uF cap bank The positive lead of the cap bank is connected to the charging battery bank consisting of three 12V 7Ah batteries in parallel. I am pulsing those batteries on the negative lead using a solid state relay rated for 250VDC and 70A. The relay is switched using a 555 timer circuit which gives it a short pulse every 6-7 seconds. This allows the caps to fill to about 15V before they are pulsed to the batteries . There is also a LED in the 555 circuit board, that flashes at the same time as the SSR, this way I can easily adjust the pulse width and the frequency. The primary battery is also a 12v 7Ah. The current draw from the primary is about 250mA. So far everything seems to work very good. Here are some pictures:











A weird thing is that the voltage on the primary battery has risen from 12.50 to 12.53V after about 30 minutes of SSG running time. Maybe my cheapOmeter is wrong. Will see what happens next
I will keep you informed about how it performs.
Thanks,
Jetijs