Luc Choquette Fraud Dispute

[mikrovolt]

you guys need to physically get together and draw up an agreement.
If it comes to money then stock (paper ownership) is issued so that later
if the business grows then equitable means can be established. the intellectual property is clearly community until reasonable efforts to include the parties involved. Believe me it all works out the same.

[Aaron]

@Mark

What I care about most is, if we can't build one ourselves, where can we buy one. Isn't that the end objective here. You know why I don't care about the legalities. Because I dont have anything invested into it. I dont have any time or money invested. Dont kid yourselves, it always boild down to the money in the end if you think about it.

You are seriously, intentionally, doing a very good job at ignoring the
MULTIPLE times it has been stated what with OR without this patent,
is that there isn't any restrictions on personal use!

Just to highlight:
"I don't care about the legalities. Because I dont have anything invested into it. I dont have any time or money invested."

Yes, exactly! You have nothing to lose and therefore is very easy
for you to have an opinion about it.

On the other hand, myself and my partners DO have a LOT of money,
time, and effort setup that we have invested with THIS exact
ignition method amongst several other pieces of the puzzle.

Luc's choice to falsely claim to be the inventor and take an oath on
top of it in order to file a patent to "protect" my circuit for open source
builders is not only one of the most pathetic excuses I've heard in my
life but has an intent, within the patent itself, to block our ability to
manufacture my own invention.

Luc made such a poor choice to assume what he did and he cannot
escape the consequences no matter how far he runs and neither can
Karthi.

When you do have something to lose, when you do have substantial
time, money and effort involved in something, then maybe, just maybe,
your opinion of the matter will carry some weight.

You say so yourself that you don't care because you have nothing
invested! Yeah, no kidding.

[Mark]

Exactly my point!! If I had my MONEY involved I would feel differently! Because its ALL ABOUT THE MONEY! GET IT!

[thedude]

you guys need to physically get together and draw up an agreement.
If it comes to money then stock (paper ownership) is issued so that later
if the business grows then equitable means can be established. the intellectual property is clearly community until reasonable efforts to include the parties involved. Believe me it all works out the same.

I agree in principle on this mikrovolt. However my experience with indulging in deeper business relationships with someone who has betrayed your trust could very well be an example of the parable Aaron uncharacteristically quoted. I will uncharacteristically site it as well.

"Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces." (Matthew 7:6)

I have felt this way, being a floor layer in a relatively small town that might employ a maximum of 10 independent sub-contractors, I am often forced to team up with another flooring college with whom i have a long history with. I bring this up because in more than 25 years in this trade i've had to do so repeatedly with particular individuals on larger commercial jobs that i'm unable to complete on my own. It has been my experience that once the milk of trust is soured, it very nearly never is repaired and tends to lead back to very similar issues repeatedly. I've literally had deja vu like experiences which were not deja vu at all but more like watching a rerun of an episode of the gong show playing over again and again each time i forget the trouble of the past.

I don't say this lightly. I'm a big proponent of, "Forgive and forget". But in the business world, I'm not very optimistic about what measure of success this old motto really has. Ultimately this is Aaron's to decide, what measure of deception is excusable and which is not. Clearly not all partys are purposely violating trust in this case, and in that case, yes. I do agree that a face to face would have to be done to really come to some resolution whereby a productive outcome could be achieved.

I'm now thinking a bit about where i keep losing all my pearls!!! Lol!

@Aaron - Thanks Aaron for the respect. I say these things in your support, as i realize that the very domain name i host is literally riding on the coat tails of your immediate membership base. Not once did you ever indicate offence to this activity on my part. I was quite concerned that i had offended you (paranoid of this even) and offered to retract my objectives and perhaps even donate the domain, to which, if my memory serves, you were more than gentlemanly. Worked out and i hope i didn't crush too many of your toes. You showed poise and fairness then and every time i've read one of your posts.

[Aaron]

all about the money?

Exactly my point!! If I had my MONEY involved I would feel differently! Because its ALL ABOUT THE MONEY! GET IT!

All about the money? ALL money and all other investments between
myself and my partners were ALL done without every having any concern
about having our project's items patented!

Why in the world would anyone with any kind of decency have a problem
with anyone being concerned that their investment money could all be
at risk because someone tries to steal credit for something that wasn't
theirs while trying to block anyone from doing anything commercial with
it, therefore flushing a good portion of the investment money down the
drain???

Your claim it is "ALL ABOUT THE MONEY" is complete and utter nonsense!

You say that in a way that implies that is all that anyone cares about here.
"ALL" about the money means that nobody cares about any integrity,
any principles, any ethics, any massive amounts of personal time
invested, etc... countless things you seem to think you just need to
throw out the windows without having any respect for them because you
just want to lump everything into one big greedy claim.

By inferring that everyone here has an issue because it is all about the
money is a slap in the face of everyone that is NOT concerned "ALL
ABOUT THE MONEY" but it is easier for you, who has never invested any
time or money into any of this to point the finger.

[Mark]

Aaron

You still don't get it. You keep assuming that I'm against you when I'm not. I dont have any problem with someone protecting their investments.

I don't know who the rightful owner is. But lets just assume it IS you. Now someone is trying to patent your invention. Steal your invention and make big money off it. THEY are doing it for the money Aaron. This doesn't have to be about you. You can have all the best intentions and someone else can step in and make it about the money. You can analyze this situation anyway you want but it always ends up being about the money. Why are you so offended by this truth? Its just the way things are like it or not.

[Aaron]

forgive

I'm a big proponent of, "Forgive and forget". But in the business world, I'm not very optimistic about what measure of success this old motto really has. Ultimately this is Aaron's to decide

I was quite concerned that i had offended you (paranoid of this even) and offered

I am too but I believe the forget isn't a literal forget to have no memory
of it but just means to move on.

And with this wisdom, that I think it is wisdom...

"Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me."

The oldest root (that I can find) - and it isn't from the Bible.

"For Who deceives me once, God forgive him; if twice, God forgive him; but if thrice, God forgive him, but not me, because I could not beware.
[1611 Tarlton's Jests (1844) 11]"

Even though that is three times fooled point is, if it happens again, it
is my/our fault because we did not beware. We can only do this by
preserving in our memory so that we know who to avoid or what to do
differently next time. We can only learn by our mistakes if we remember
what happened of course.

I can forgive them but that doesn't mean there aren't things that still need
to be wrapped up.

-------------------------

With your website, I was just glad someone was doing it. I had considered
it but you already got the ball rolling so no need and it apparently has been
a very welcome addition as far as I can see!

[Aaron]

@Mark

Aaron

You still don't get it. You keep assuming that I'm against you when I'm not. I dont have any problem with someone protecting their investments.

I don't know who the rightful owner is. But lets just assume it IS you. Now someone is trying to patent your invention. Steal your invention and make big money off it. THEY are doing it for the money Aaron. This doesn't have to be about you. You can have all the best intentions and someone else can step in and make it about the money. You can analyze this situation anyway you want but it always ends up being about the money. Why are you so offended by this truth? Its just the way things are like it or not.

That makes perfect sense when you qualify your statements but when
stating them in a blanket way that it appeared, that seems to apply to me
too.

I apologize I misunderstood you.

Anyway, these two people who claim to be such champions for open
source have a lot of conflicts in their statements - I just hope everyone
can see them. First of all, for two people to be such protectors of
open source, why would they want to patent something to begin with.
And for two, when they dissolved the company that was the patents
assignee, why did they reassign it to themselves instead of simply letting
it lapse - and then someone says it was being redirected to them
for "safe keeping". lol

Claiming a patent is necessary to protect open source is the same thing
in the story 1984 when someone holds up X amount of fingers and tells
the person that they see a different number of fingers.

[Aaron]

prototype requirement

I am sure since you are so well versed in Patent law, filing for a patent for a non existent device is illegal and is downright a fraud. (This is another reason why this patent application should die as I do not want to commit fraud!)

Tell me again why you want this patent application to be continued after knowing these facts!

I never claimed to be well versed in patent law. I have QUOTED IP attorneys,
the USPTO laws, articles from legal organization, etc... that spell out what
I have said in plain English.

And with the ionization detection circuit - just because there are other
similar circuits - doesn't mean anything. There are a LOT of patents
for water filters - doesn't mean there isn't room for other ideas on water
filters.

Let me quote you not just the law, but quotes from even more patent
attorneys to prove that you refuse to stop misleading people here with
your ridiculous concoctions - in regards to your "non-existent device":

First of all, the "device" is called a prototype for your information. And
you claim that a prototype is needed to have a valid patent claim. You
furthermore claim that not having an actual prototype is, let me quote
you: "illegal and is downright a fraud."

And you fail at yet another feeble attempt to make yourself look like
such a righteous angel that you don't want your hands dirtied by
being associated with a patent application that has no prototype.

So...

---------------

"A prototype is not required to file for a patent, but I recommend them before filing." - Kafantaris Law Group

---------------

DO YOU NEED A PROTOTYPE PRIOR TO FILING A PATENT APPLICATION? | NEUSTEL LAW OFFICES, LTD
Do You Need a Prototype to Patent an Invention?

"Many inventors wonder if they need a prototype prior to patenting an invention. The simple answer is "no'. A prototype is not required prior to filing a patent application with the U.S. Patent Office." Neustel Law Offices


(And please don't try to say a prototype is required after either LOL - they
can be helpful for examiners but are NOT required to grant a patent)


-------------

The only requirement I can find that requires a prototype be built other
than some private purchase deal or whatever is for the Boy Scout
Inventing Merit Badge!

Preliminary Requirements for Inventing Merit Badge*|*Scouting News

And I quote: "7. Build a working prototype of the item you invented"

Perhaps you had a local Scout Troop confused with the USPTO.

[Ordo_Ab_Chao]

Keep up da fight!!!

Hello Aaron,
I have been following this for a while...a LONG while

I am actually a returning member, my alt username was radiant_1, Humble_servant...and we we're in that skype channel hosted by David in D.C. (before you started this forum)

I was one of the first to replicate YOUR single capacitor version. I got great results with a 2500uf capacitor ...a little too great

Remember we had a disagreement on the mode of operation? Anyway......

I can vouch for the fact that Luc's circuit was definitely different, and that he was excited about your simplification.

I also want to say, don't even sweat the little stuff, I agree that since a patent has been filed for your invention, you should be on the damn thing. Screw all the people whining...you deserve recognition and compensation, since it is going to be used to make money under someone elses name....GET IT! LOL

[Vickers]

Hmmm... Tough call. Greed and ego.
I mean the system does not actually work at all if trying to run a car engine on water alone.
But the novelty of that big spark will sell millions of units to teenage boy racers all over the globe.
Their conventional plugs wont last long hence the need for Aarons tungsten plug, but even tungsten don't last much longer.
So there will be a huge market for replacement plugs.

Maybe aquapulse should supply the spark and Aaron supply the plugs.

Shake hands, have a beer, and get on with saving the planet.

[Aaron]

plasma ignition

Hmmm... Tough call. Greed and ego.
I mean the system does not actually work at all if trying to run a car engine on water alone.
But the novelty of that big spark will sell millions of units to teenage boy racers all over the globe.
Their conventional plugs wont last long hence the need for Aarons tungsten plug, but even tungsten don't last much longer.
So there will be a huge market for replacement plugs.

Maybe aquapulse should supply the spark and Aaron supply the plugs.

Shake hands, have a beer, and get on with saving the planet.

Thanks Ordo!

@Vickers - actually, there are some limited successes in proving that
if this ignition has enough joules in it per blast that it can indeed run
an engine on water. It is not good for the engine but it proves it can
be done but not practical in my opinion. This is why the interest in the
NH3 & N2O production from air, water and electricity, which is what
was done on the real water cars and with the proper fuel, the plasma
does not have to be as strong.

I believe it is not merely a novelty but to each their own. It demonstrates
a few profound concepts that most people won't agree with but the
tests reveal everything that I predicted would happen.

The Tungsten plug development or the "nascent plug" was not mine.
That was Rosco's team. I did however find ways around it in different
applications. However, on small discharges, that DO make a difference,
off the shelf non-resistor plugs will last long enough to make it worthwhile.

And if it is for all out racing applications, nobody is going to care if a plug
lasts for one race - anything to slice off the time just that one extra bit.

I cannot comment on anything new at the moment, however it was already
stated a couple times that I was willing to offer something that would
be inclusive of everyone, including Luc despite what has happened.

Arvind was the only one that expressed interest and the others decided
that a win-win was not a favorable course of action at that time at least.
Perhaps I am mistaken and they actually want to explore their options now,
but neither of them have indicated that to me. I haven't closed the final
door yet and am always open.

[Aaron]

big blast

I got great results with a 2500uf capacitor ...a little too great

I'd say so - that is a tad bit big! lol

[Ordo_Ab_Chao]

A lil big...

@Aaron
It actually worked perfectly for what I did. I got rid of the spark plug all together, and tested some "3 electrode" combos It's also great for electromagnets.....hint hint
Everything anyone could ever need is throughout this forum....just gotta put it all together.

Anyway, good luck with your endevours. I hope it works for all who deserve credit

[Aaron]

3 point and electromagnets

I got rid of the spark plug all together, and tested some "3 electrode" combos It's also great for electromagnets.....hint hint
Everything anyone could ever need is throughout this forum....just gotta put it all together.

Yep, I'm glad there are others that have seen it