My Motors got me to Tap into Radiant Energy

[marxist]

for pcb of John Stone's monster driver at OSH Park use the following link:
OSH Park ~ John Stone Monster Driver V5.1
or
OSH Park ~ Profile for sampojoe

PS: Thanks to all of you
and
PS2: the board's description on the osh park website could be more extensive - I mean there IS the space ;-)

[warrensk]

Thank you!

I just put an order in for 3 boards...excited to get them!

@johnstone....

Just for clarity.....

This circuit is designed to be switched by an external signal source....the signal is fed into an opto....5 volts peak to peak will be sufficient for the input right? If I go higher than this could I risk blowing the opto?


I would like to get the circuit to operate around 30 khz-35khz max...will the circuit as designed be best for this range? If there are any components (like the Fets) that need to be changed for operating in this region your advice would be much appreciated!

Thanks!

-Warrensk

[GChilders]

lm7805 problem

@JohnStone
John I have populated stage A and stage B of two of
the monster drives that I have received.While testing
I had forgotten that jumper that cornboy had discovered
and I got the same readings on both boards. Everything
seemed perfect on both boards up to the output pin of the
lm7805. When I went back and reread the forum posts and
knew that the jumper was missing I put the jumper in the
first of the two boards and everything was now perfect. I
am using two 9 volt alkaline batteries in series to get
about 17.8 volts. At the input and ground pins when this
power source is hooked up to k8 on the first board it reads
17.8 volts. At the diode almost the same about 17.78 and
on the other side of the diode about 17.12. It remains
about the same on the input pin of the 7812 and at the
output drops to about 11.88. There is very little difference
between the input pin on the 7805 and the output pin of
the 7812, then it drops to 4.87 on the output side.
Everything seems good and I feel I have a winner here.
I do the same on the other board, put a jumper in and
here I have a problem. The reading between the ground and
input pin at k8 drops to 3.88 volts.I remove the jumper and
test at all points and the reading is practically the same
as the first board until I come to the 7805 where the ground
pin is reading the same as the input pin and the output pin
is .02 volts lower than the other two. I shut everything
down and looked to see if there were any bridges between pins
that might be shorting out and could find none. I had
thoroughly cleaned the boards with alcohol in case there
were problems and everything looked clean. Suspecting
it could be a bad pcb or bad lm7805 I decided to run a
wire soldered to the ground pin and the ground of the k8.
I had the same results. Is there anyway to check if the
lm7805 is bad in situ? What do you suspect the problem is?
Any help is appreciated. I will set this board aside and
continue populating the other until I here from you.

Cheers

Garry

[GChilders]

jumper

Are the jumpers permanently soldered in or just temporary.

Cheers

Garry

[sampojo]

Re: warrensk

I just put an order in for 3 boards...excited to get them!

@johnstone....

Just for clarity.....

This circuit is designed to be switched by an external signal source....the signal is fed into an opto....5 volts peak to peak will be sufficient for the input right? If I go higher than this could I risk blowing the opto?


I would like to get the circuit to operate around 30 khz-35khz max...will the circuit as designed be best for this range? If there are any components (like the Fets) that need to be changed for operating in this region your advice would be much appreciated!

Thanks!

-Warrensk

Hi Warren,

I noticed you were Building a quad stator motor On the other thread. You will need one Board per stator. You might be short one. Are you using the arduino to control the pulse action? It uses the 5v I think. Haven't assembled mine yet. More fun building my big motor... I think I saw where the Arduino could do 200khz somewhere. Trying to pulse once per commutator are we? I figured it out once on the imperial setup, I think it came in around 90khz. I would look at the FET specs for rise times. But this would be all low rf, pretty easy for most electronics, my guess. But lets see if you get a rise out of John S. I think Machine was looking at pulses within pulses too somewhere. The frequencies that Ufo likes for RE, that he demos with all his work are much lower. It has made me wonder if there is a characteristic of tapping RE at lower freqs that is better. And it would seem to me that the resonance freq of a motors coil needs to be figured out, and a motor built to run around that freq. You might need 2 duty cycles, time on per segment, and then if you still wish to follow the basic pulsing scheme of this thread for an assym motor after that, you would long pulse one brush set for a few revs, then switch to the next brush set... sounds like a lot of resonance possibilities.

[sampojo]

Re: jumpers, Garry C.

Are the jumpers permanently soldered in or just temporary.

Cheers

Garry

Garry, Here is what I found about those jumpers, one is in place inside the board, and two are not. You will definitely need exterior jumpers for the blank ones. Details are posted in my post on pg 82 post 2435

[warrensk]

boards per stator....

@ sampojo,

I was going to run the two motor coils in parallel and have the two generator coils in series into my radiant energy circuit....I have a hunch if the radiant side of things gets a good resonant connection with the earth something interesting might happen....

I am running my my1016 (16 pole) on one pwm that runs at 13 khz in this fashion and am getting good results. I will be using the arduino to control the monster driver's pulses to the motor at its best frequency for radiant output. For now I will stick with 3 pcbs, if anything I will want to pulse just the 2 motor coils separately.

For FETS:

We are mainly looking for FETs that close within 50ns correct?

Thanks for your input guys,

-warrensk

[JohnStone]

....
I do the same on the other board, put a jumper in and
here I have a problem. The reading between the ground and
input pin at k8 drops to 3.88 volts.I remove the jumper and
test at all points and the reading is practically the same
as the first board until I come to the 7805 where the ground
pin is reading the same as the input pin and the output pin
is .02 volts lower than the other two. I shut everything
down and looked to see if there were any bridges between pins
that might be shorting out and could find none. I had
thoroughly cleaned the boards with alcohol in case there
were problems and everything looked clean. ....

Hi Garry,
sorry for late answer. I have to solve some private problems.

- Regarding jumpers: All three need to be steadily mounted. Unfortunately this reveison was sent to Oshpark. Soon later - nor knowing of Oshpark - I found a way to omit 2 jumpers. So we refer to this PCB with 3 jumpers.

- In general these PCBs are difficult to solder. I used max. heat for getting solder flowing well on gold plating and covering the pads - of course short time only!!!!!

- Please do not confudse GND at opto input and GND K8. They are not the same.

- I am confused on what jumper you put in and out. Please elaborate on this

-Your report suggsts that the 7805 has no GND potential. Cornboy suffered on same problem when starting with building monsters.

- Have you your ICs set on sockets? Can you remove them for test?

- As last emergency measure you can cut 5V output track going to C1, in order to get regulators stand alone.
JS

[Cornboy 555]

Are the jumpers permanently soldered in or just temporary.

Cheers

Garry

Hello Garry, i found same problem with regulator, until i realised there were jumpers, all three marked jumpers must be installed, permanately!.

You can solder them underneath if you wish.

Sorry for delayed reply.

Warm Regards Cornboy.

[JohnStone]

....
This circuit is designed to be switched by an external signal source....the signal is fed into an opto....5 volts peak to peak will be sufficient for the input right? If I go higher than this could I risk blowing the opto?


I would like to get the circuit to operate around 30 khz-35khz max...will the circuit as designed be best for this range? If there are any components (like the Fets) that need to be changed for operating in this region your advice ....

1. Yes it is a driver - Monster pulser is not the appropiate name ...

2. The input needs to be calculated to be 10...20 mA. Depending on your generator output (arduino) you should adapt the input resistor being mounted on PCB and connected to posts (see circuit diagram).
If calculatiig please regard the input LED at opto eats up 1.6V. For 5 V gen. you shall calculate 2.4V left for resistor.
Depending your gen. and pulse polarity you can connect it (i.E. to Arduino):
- Generator output - resistor - opto - GND - GND Arduino
- 5V (from Arduino) - resistor - opto - generator output
additionally: GND - GND Arduino

3. The overall limiting factor for frequency is the opto only. It will perform about 20 kHz (calculated from datasheet) if using SFH617A-1. But components often are far better than data sheet. fortunately I added that IC for edge shaping those bad opto edges.
All other parts might go up to MHz range.
I designed this circuit for FAST switching edges in order to foster radiant. But I did not intend to make use of high frequencies. Therefore I used this cheap and slow opto.


I hope this helps
JS

[asollid]

Radiant Purple

Does anyone know where i can get a neon strong enough to survive the beautiful Royal Purple for more than a few seconds? I love to look at it and dont like having to shut down the circuit just because the neons self -destruct. I have been using the small bedini neons and have run out of them. Or is there some way to separate the RE completely from the hot orange- some sort of filter? Or would the RE destroy the neon even if it was completely isolated from hot current?

[GChilders]

problem with lm7805

@John Stone
The jumper that I put in on both boards to test the voltage regulators was the one located between the lm7812 and the MIC4452YN. The main thing
is that this made one board work properly and the other board did not. The input voltage on the k8 connectors dropped to 3.8 volts when this jumper was installed. The jumpers that I used in this case were temporary bread board jumpers that I use for the Arduino, to jump between breadboards and the Arduino. When I pull out the jumper the voltage returns to 18 volts, when I read between the 12V pin and the ground pin on k8. I did not use particularly high temperatures and kept the soldering iron on the gold pads for approximately 1 to two seconds, at a temperature of 350 Centigrade using .032 solder. Then when the problem with the jumper occurred I thought that the solder had not wicked down the pin in the center of the 7805 and resoldered it. I may have left the heat on it longer than was proper and did repeat because the solder still did not wick to the other side.
Reread the two sides of the 7805 and still the same. It was at this point that I remembered the jumpers. Anyway I am sure that the one 7805 is good. The other may be bad from too much heat, and no I did not use sockets so it will be difficult to pull them out. I had not used either of the jumpers that are to be used with the SFH617-A3. So you think that the 7805 is Bad?

Cheers

Garry

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Warrensk...

@ sampojo,

I was going to run the two motor coils in parallel and have the two generator coils in series into my radiant energy circuit....I have a hunch if the radiant side of things gets a good resonant connection with the earth something interesting might happen....

I am running my my1016 (16 pole) on one pwm that runs at 13 khz in this fashion and am getting good results. I will be using the arduino to control the monster driver's pulses to the motor at its best frequency for radiant output. For now I will stick with 3 pcbs, if anything I will want to pulse just the 2 motor coils separately.

For FETS:

We are mainly looking for FETs that close within 50ns correct?

Thanks for your input guys,

-warrensk

Hello Warrensk,

I have been working lately on a new way to wind , or may I say, to "Internally Connect" a dedicated Asymmetric Generator (to "Drive" another Asymmetric Motor...)...if you wanna hold on till I disclose this new concepts in order to start winding your Radiant Generator...

In the meantime...go over the two new posts I have loaded on my other Thread...


Warm Regards


Ufopolitics

[warrensk]

Radiant Generator

Thanks UFO,

The new posts are very illuminating! I will wait eagerly for a wiring diagram and follow the newly disclosed info....It is great you understand what he was doing!


-Warrensk

[GChilders]

Section C Monster Drive

@JS
Hi John,
I am sorry to bother you with all of this as you are obviously busier than you were before. I finished populating section C on the board that was working properly. I think that I bridged pin 3 and four with solder before that I should. I tried connecting an led to k1 pin 4 and k1 pin 2 and the led would not pulse. So after I reread your instructions I decided to do the rest of the tests as I know the Arduino was pulsing and lighting the led when I had connected it directly to the Arduino. I have a stable 4.88 volts at output of lm7805 and also at pin 4 of SFH617A-3. I have a pulsing signal at pin 3 but the voltage seems to vary. The high pulse seems to be 2.55 volts then drops to 0 and then the pulse goes up to about 1.6 and then drops to 0 and then it repeats this pattern. It varies a few hundredths of a volt but the pattern seems consistent. I also get the same pulsing pattern at pin 9 of the 74hc132n which is not installed but from the pad that pin 9 would mount to. When I connect the led between pin 3 and 4 of the sfh617a-3 the led pulses properly. btw I installed 330 ohm resistors for both r1 and r2 as the tutorial recommended for the Arduino. If you think that this voltage is too high I could increase the resistance to a higher value.
Back to the problem with the 7805 on the other board do you think that the 7805 is damaged internally, and is there in way to test that?

I did not understand this comment.

As last emergency measure you can cut 5V output track going to C1, in order to get regulators stand alone.
JS

???

PS Thinking that the fluctuation could be the Arduino signal I checked the Arduino directly and indeed the voltage is fluctuating in the same way as the sfh617a-3. I changed Arduino and uploaded the test program and changed the battery as it was down to 8 volts. The voltage continued to fluctuate in the same pattern but now the voltage on the high end was even higher at times as high as 4.5 volts. and the 1.6 and so on.

I think I may need to put in higher value resistors, maybe 480 ohm or 1K??


Cheers

Garry