Help Please Understanding Reactive Power

[RAMSET]

Some of you may know we are working on an immersion heater
that is showing great promise .
We are trying to understand reactive power as it may apply to this application?

Is it possible to do 2KWH work on a 3Amp Fuse?

Is there a method in place to "SEE"/ Measure reactive power in our homes ?
Any help would be very much appreciated here... and beneficial to our entire community.



Thank you
Chet

[RAMSET]

Info like this is a good start

MileHigh
Quote

Older-generation electrical meters did not measure power factor, and hence could not measure the reactive power associated with an individual home. I am going to guess that modern home electrical meters can measure the power factor, and by extension the reactive power. All that you have to do is measure the phase relationship between the voltage and the current to measure the reactive power.
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Thank you MH

Comments please!

Chet
PS
Duncan Had said some very interesting things about Reactive power as it may apply here [or not] ...I'll have to look for that!!

[RAMSET]

http://www.mds975.co.uk/Images/radios/atu09.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-t...2520floyyd.png

http://www.rocketradio.co.uk/ekmps/s...mhz-1010-p.jpg

[quantumuppercut]

Some of you may know we are working on an immersion heater
that is showing great promise .
We are trying to understand reactive power as it may apply to this application?

Is it possible to do 2KWH work on a 3Amp Fuse?

Is there a method in place to "SEE"/ Measure reactive power in our homes ?
Any help would be very much appreciated here... and beneficial to our entire community.



Thank you
Chet

Let's say we have a ball and drop it from height H, the ball bounce back to the same height, the system is purely reactive. If the ball bounce back lower, there is some reactive, and if the ball doesn't bounce back, it's purely "resistive" in a sense.

The boiler is resistive if we treat the water as a resistive load. If there is reactive going on, then the system must contain inductance/capacitance. One can see the boiler as a coil.

It might be induction heating. If so, you're not alone. Induction heating is from magnetic energy. Now could it be that magnetic energy is free...

Steorn's CEO Posts Overunity Heater Video

"...The purpose of the test is to determine if the coil fed with a quantity of AC power, can produce more heat than the same coil fed with the same quantity of DC power. In the paper, the formula needed to calculate the total AC power is presented. The AC input and DC input is configured to be as identical as possible. Actually, the power input during the AC run was .9 (point nine) watts, and in the DC run it was 1 (one) watt. The fact that the input power during the AC run was slightly less than in the DC run actually biases the test against the AC run. This makes the results of the test even more significant.

In the first test, 1 watt of DC power is fed into the coil wound around the nickel core. The temperature of the coil increases until it reaches an equilibrium point of 36.1 degrees. This is the point at which the power lost by the coil via heat dissipation matches the electrical input power. Even if the input power stayed on for hours longer, the temperature of the coil would not increase above this temperature.

In the second test, .9 watts is fed into the same coil wound around the same exact nickel core. Obviously, this test took place a period of time after the first one, after the temperature of the coil has dropped back to its original value. The result of AC being fed into the coil is that it rises to an equilibrium temperature of 41.1 degrees. This means that in the AC test, the temperature of the coil reached a temperature five degrees higher than in the DC test.

The higher equilibrium temperature obtained when the coil was powered with AC, indicates an anomalous gain of energy. The gain of energy is unexplainable, because the input power in both tests were almost identical -- actually slightly less when AC was utilized. As the paper continues, the author indicates that resistive heating cannot be the case for the increased temperature in the AC test run..."

[RAMSET]

Oh wouldn't that be a pleasant surprise?

Uppercut
Thanks for that info...A Different way to harvest Energy!!
I certainly hope so!!
Thx
Chet

[Dave45]

Hey Chet
we have to design a system that is symmetrical using both fields
the way to do this is using the ccw and cw wound coils
eliminate bemf or rather catch it in the right way and put it to work instead of biting us in the but, causing heat.
Its on the horizon
we're close
dave

[nueview]

good description of the power grid. i was once told that there is a gain on the grid of power due to reactive energy and it can add up to 30%.
the new meters allow them to bill you for this power and sell it again great if you are the bill collector.
the problem as it is stated to me is more of a parasitic oscillation phase change.which accumulates charge locations on the power grid and then they travel till burned out or up.
the trick is keeping it on your side of the meter it took me 25 years to figure that out. the problem is it is not practicle for the average consumer to do.
the problem is breaking the field reaction opposition loop and the magnetic is always 90* out of phase so you need to cogenerate and feed back on itself.
Martin

[RAMSET]

I don't quite understand

Martin
Looking at the Boiler.. Could this be part of the reason for the COP values? { making things happen that the meter can't measure}

@
Dave
Thanks for the comments and encouragement .
I agree!!

Chet

[Aaron]

kill a watt meter

Kill a Watt meter can measure power factor of any appliance you plug in.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000RGF29Q?ie=UTF8&tag=maimounas-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B000RGF29Q

I don't know the max load it can handle though.

[RAMSET]

Yes We have Quite a collection of those..........

Aaron
Thank you
Its this part of Martin's Statement that I would love to understand a bit more.

Quote:

the trick is keeping it on your side of the meter it took me 25 years to figure that out. the problem is it is not practicle for the average consumer to do.
the problem is breaking the field reaction opposition loop and the magnetic is always 90* out of phase so you need to cogenerate and feed back on itself

-----------------------------------------------
Trying to understand what this actually means .. I don't speak "phase"
Nor do I understand how this can be done?
And if its "Stealing" I am not interested at all!!

I was just wondering, can we build things that we perceive to be OU but in reality we could have stumbled upon a device/concept that is doing what Martin describes above??
Or
?

A little more info would be good ,also let it be clearly understood I am not calling Martin a thief......
Thanks
Chet

[Aaron]

power factor

Measurements can be deceiving if the power factor is off - that is true that some see ou when the measurements don't account for this. You can easily correct it with a cap. But if you're running a straight resistive load in your device, then you are already at a perfect or near perfect power factor and that isn't an issue.

I believe if you measure the draw with a kill a watt meter, you will be seeing accurately what it is drawing and how much you are paying for it - since you can enter how much you pay per kwh to your power company.

Power meters don't really measure kwh - that is just how we get billed - they really measure kvar - we get billed for power we're able to use but we also get billed for power we can't use. We're all getting ripped off by the power company like this but there isn't much we can do. If every inductive load in our home is power factor corrected, then we're really just paying for what we are really using.

You can see this about power factor in the home http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...ave-money.html there is some other threads can't find them now.

Don't worry about "phase-ology" - bringing the horse up in front of the track so they're in synch so to speak, they are then power factor corrected to 1.0. The horse pulling the train along the track while off line from the track, that is then they are out of phase. It is as simple as this:

[Farmhand]

There are two definitions of reactive power from two sources in the post below.

http://www.energeticforum.com/160758-post8.html

Cheers

Oh yeah, the thing about reactive power is that you can't get reactive power
without first applying "real power" which goes through the meter turning it
forward, I think when the reactive power goes back it turns the meter back.
However the real and reactive power both contribute to the current in the lines
and incur losses so if reactive power is used it should be paid for.

As I see it reactive power is just the unused portion, and power factor
correction saves current on the lines therefore losses which reduces the
amount of real power needed and reduces current effects on the grid
equipment which reduces the cost to provide the power.

After all the power company had to pay to make the real power. Why should we
be able to convert it to reactive and use it for free. ? If no real power goes to
the appliance then no reactive power there either.

Some old welding machines can turn a meter backwards. Possibly because of the massive coils and spark gap.

Here's a link I just found.
CR4 - Thread: Have you heard of Electric Power Saver Reverse or kWh reverse?

Maybe not the best link so here's another one.

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1247937

I have heard of many cases of this happening.

..

[Farmhand]

I connect a fluro desk light (22 watt) with ballast to a 1000 watt pure sine wave
inverter and the light destroyed the inverter quite quickly. It got very hot, one
IC exploded and one resistor is black.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Is that normal or was there a fault in the inverter ?

It is a dangerous thing to happen because the current kept flowing as the
smoke increased, it would have caught fire if I didn't witness it.

Now I have an expensive enclosure some parts and a couple of thick leads.

Cheers