How to best use BEMF

[garrypm]

Hi,

Can some of the more experienced show how to best draw off and utilise BEMF?

Garry

[Joit]

It maybe helps when you first figure, what BEMF is.
It is mainly the counterforce in the Coil, when you put a Load on it.
This can cause more Heat in a Coil, because there is suddenly more Energy at one Place.
So you may need to figure out by yourself, what the right Style for a Coil is,
the forces from Energy running in and deplete are allways pretty equal in the Sense from bringing Energy in and out again, because the Losses are mostly allways at the same Points. Or you can find a Method to put the Load on the Coil when the Energy is after full energizing from the Coil, but then you have lesser Power for the Load.

[mbrownn]

I dont know of a way to collect BEMF, I wish i did.

[garrypm]

Thank you both for the replies.

I remember watching one of the lost videos of a guy that created a magnet
piston motor and he was able to light an incandescent bulb from the bemf
using a 12v battery. Wish I could remember his name.

Thanks

[Shadesz]

Play with this

and this

[Joit]

I dont know of a way to collect BEMF, I wish i did.

Actually you can say you can collect the BEMF, when you collapse the Field at the Coil and catch the Energy there.

[Farmhand]

Actually you can say you can collect the BEMF, when you collapse the Field at the Coil and catch the Energy there.

No I think that is a common misconception. The collapsing field induces EMF and
it is opposed by it's own BEMF. We can harvest or recover the energy in the
field and use that induced EMF to produce current.

See the link and Quote in this post.

http://www.energeticforum.com/156411-post13.html

As far as I can tell the very moment EMF is induced there is also BEMF to
oppose it "always" as a Law of Nature.

[Joit]

No I think that is a common misconception.

I think in general, there is a misconception about BEMF.
You cannot collect something, what is actually only a Jam.
I do orientate me here at the higher Density in the Coil, and the Field what collapse. The Energy, what goes back there, is, what counts, and since its rectified, more or less, it does not matter, what kind of Energy it is, because its the Amount, what comes at the End out at the Lead, and no matter, if it has Eddy Curent or its a opposing Stream.
And thinking like that about a Problem cause more Problems, as to think about the Solutions, because its not like that, when you understand what now exactly happens, that you can transfer it then to any real Devices.
I got my Doubts anyway, if you really can figure it out exactly, because in non of this Considerations is the Enviroment involved, where you dont know, how much it is involved into this Processes, IE. stressing the Aether or Plasma, what is around us.

[Farmhand]

Well Joit, I agree, the thing that really matters is powering our loads for our
comfort and our freedom from the crazy prices for energy.

I am only learning, I don't profess to be extra smart or anything like that, my
main concern is to understand things properly myself. If someone says
something that makes more sense to me than what I already believe then I stop
believing what used to make sense and believe what does make more sense to
me now. That's learning for me. And I will never stop learning.

I just hope people don't take my posts as inflammatory. I call it as i see it, but I mean no harm.

I think we need to be able to say what we think, some things are not worth
an argument though. Some things i think are important enough for debate.

I only started to really deeply think about Lens and try to understand it
because of the interest in it, I don't actually have a problem with Lens's Law,
but it is interesting to think around.

Cheers

[mbrownn]

Electro motive force is a force that causes a current to flow, BEMF opposes a current in a motor and actually has no current itself, it is an impedance. It occurs in a coil when a coil is moving magnetic fields or vice versa. It is to do with the interaction of moving magnetic fields.

Inductive kickback is to do with field collapse, a subtle difference.

BEMF occurs at the time we are passing current through a coil, inductive kickback occurs after we switch off the current.

It makes sense that the impedance of an inductor to being charged is BEMF because a magnetic field is moving during this time as a result of current flow we put in. It also makes sense that inductive kickback is generated EMF as a result of the movement of the collapsing magnetic field but this does not explain the transient spike.

So with a pulsed coil we have double the energy in it to what we put in, less losses due to ohms law, plus the transient spike.

The transient can be explained by this excerpt from a book that I am writing.

"When an electron enters into a wire we create a negatively charged pole. By the Laws of attraction, anything positively charged will be attracted and anything negative will be repelled. When that electron leaves, the wire is for a moment, charged positively by what has been attracted and so the reverse law of attraction happens. It has been proven by experiment that some of this positive charge can be used to charge batteries and capacitors but yet little or no current flows. This is a second source of energy to be found in a pulsed coil. This must not be mistaken for the inductive kickback caused by the magnetic field collapse. Inductive kickback cannot be of a higher potential (voltage) than the power that created it. The higher voltage measured on inductive kickback is actually this second input. It is only momentary spike whereas the inductive kickback lasts a much longer period of time and has current. By creating very short pulses it has been found that these spikes have at least 97% of the energy that charged the coil when charging batteries."

It does not seem possible to separate out BEMF at this time unless something can be done to break lenses law.

For any of this to be true about a coil it gives us another problem. Where is the magnetism coming from? It cannot be electrical energy that has been converted into the magnetism as we can account for all the energy consumed by our circuit. It has to be a "free" byproduct . So now we have 4 times the energy in the system to what we put in plus BEMF which we cant get at yet.

By just working with two of the additional energies to what we have put in to a pulsed coil, a self running motor is possible as I have postulated in my threads. The magnetism and the current generated by the field collapse. The radiant can be collected by use of a bucking coil in addition to this.

Please correct me if I am wrong about any of this.

[Joit]

"When an electron enters into a wire we create a negatively charged pole.




.........Inductive kickback cannot be of a higher potential (voltage) than the power that created it. The higher voltage measured on inductive kickback is actually this second input. It is only momentary spike whereas the inductive kickback lasts a much longer period of time and has current. By creating very short pulses it has been found that these spikes have at least 97% of the energy that charged the coil when charging batteries."

.....
For any of this to be true about a coil it gives us another problem. Where is the magnetism coming from? It cannot be electrical energy that has been converted into the magnetism as we can account for all the energy consumed by our circuit. It has to be a "free" byproduct . So now we have 4 times the energy in the system to what we put in plus BEMF which we cant get at yet.

So far you write on a Book seems you have to keep the Term Electrons to keep it plausible.
I can agree with BEMF as an Impedance too.

Inductive Kickback.. when i understand it right as the Spike at breaking the Energyflow in a Coil.
I made lately a Coil, where i get constantly 135 Volt Spikes from it, no matter, if i apply 5 or 12 Volts on it. When i now charge a Capacitor with it, it dont raise to the Potential, but it raises in small Steps IE, 2 Volt Steps, depending on the Ammount from the Spikes, not the Potential. So first is Capacity Charged, then the Potential. Because the Capacitor will charge at last up to ~135-140 Volts.
And the Potential from the Spike is way higher, then the Input is.
I wound the Coil few Times in different Ways, but still got 135V.
Later, i changed the Core to a other Material, solid Black sand Core, and the Spikes raised to 145 V, so it seems more like, that it depends at the Capacity from the Coil and Core, the Amount at the Kickback is a Cause from the Capacity in a Coil and the resulting Potential in it.

Magnetism mainly is not a Byproduct, it is the driving Force in a Circuit, but you can recycle unused, 'not disturbing Areas', at it, and increase therefor the Efficience from it, like placing another Inductor close to it, or, like someone posted allready, make a torroid Core with 2 opposite Coils on it, power with the one a Lamp, and over the second Winding anything else.

[mbrownn]

Thanks for the feedback

As I see it those spikes 135v are the radiant. I would expect you to be able to measure current charging the cap until you get to supply voltage then the current will almost disappear even though the cap still charges.

Increasing the permeability of the core increases the inductance of the coil and so its impedance. It is interesting if we do get higher voltage with higher inductance as to how it happens.

I would like to know how the magnetism relates to power in a coil, can we measure the power consumed by the magnetism? I know there is a correlation but can we separate out the power consumed from the power consumed by resistance and impedance.

If it were the case that power is converted to magnetic force and vice versa then it would make sense that the field coils in a generator would experience a weakening of magnetic force under load when I think the opposite occurs but I could be wrong. Even in a generator, the more current there is drawn out of it, the more magnetic forces there is. Magnetic force is created by the current flow, both in a generator and a motor and not consumed by it so where does it come from?

It is true that the effect of varying the inductance of a coil does have an effect on magnetism. The truth is I don't understand it and hope someone can explain it simply to me. I think Peter has a book on the subject so I will have to get it.

[garrypm]

Thanks for all the comments.

I should have been more precise in my request -

If I power a coil then disconnect, I would like to use the spike created
by the inductive collapse.

Wish I could remember the youtube of the guy that was interviewed demonstrating
his motor/generator. It had 4 solenoids and he showed it running on 1, 2, 3 then all 4 powering an incandescent from the collapse of the coils. All running
on a 12v battery.

Thanks

[mbrownn]

Thanks for all the comments.

I should have been more precise in my request -

If I power a coil then disconnect, I would like to use the spike created
by the inductive collapse.

Wish I could remember the youtube of the guy that was interviewed demonstrating
his motor/generator. It had 4 solenoids and he showed it running on 1, 2, 3 then all 4 powering an incandescent from the collapse of the coils. All running
on a 12v battery.

Thanks

The simplest circuits I know are Bedini circuits and the easiest is this one http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...-must-see.html and http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tor-video.html

More of his stuff can be found on his forum here Imhotep's Lab Interactive FAQ - Index page

Instructions can be found on this website here Imhoteps Labs

There are many ways of doing it, so if you can remember more info about the video maybe I can help you more.

[wayne.ct]

Start with a Joule Thief circuit

Hi,

Can some of the more experienced show how to best draw off and utilise BEMF?

Garry

I know BEMF is technically the wrong term for what you are asking, but try to understand the joule thief (JT) circuit and you will, I think, start to make some progress in capturing the return energy from a coil. I have found, and I think you will also discover, that conventional electricity and magnetism works quite well when you start out. When you get very short input pulses and higher energy levels is where you REALLY start to approach free energy. The problems at that level are interesting and not trivial. See, for example, the work of Joseph Newman. Some of his copper coils weigh tons.

Now, in broad terms, this is what you do. Use a transistor or MOSFET to momentarily attach a battery to a coil. A few volts (1 to 24) and a few turns of copper wire (20 to 100) on a cardboard tube (1/2 to 1 1/2 inch diameter) are plenty to see the effect and get started.

Remember that once you get a current started in the coil it will want to continue to flow in the SAME direction. Attach a diode and a resistor to the coil so that when the current from your bettery is shut off the diode will direct the current through the resistor. This will be your LOAD.

Now, CAREFULLY compute the voltage, current, resistance and power that you are drawing from the battery. Use careful calculations or an oscilloscope to determine, measure, conceptualize and understand the PULSE WIDTH and frequency of the pulses of energy you are giving to the coil. This will pretty much characterize the power input side of the equation.

Lastly, consider the power being delivered and consumed by the LOAD. Notice that the output will be related to the input but EVERY factor will be different. You will have a different voltage, current, resistance, power and even PULSE WIDTH. Only the frequency will be preserved and even that can be strangely modified with over-tones and sub-harmonics.

If you are looking for FREE ENERGY, like most of us in these threads, then you will also want to do energy calculations. Be careful what you report, though, because you will get the FULL treatment if you make claims that you can't back up.

Good luck and I hope this helps you in some way. I will be looking forward to hearing more from you.