Peter Daysh Davey Water Heater Query

[daemonbart]

Generator!

Hi AM!

I will try to help you, I was lucky to have most of the parts allready

I will have to look into this better in a few days, I use mosfets, n and p channel. I found them from older inverter heatpumps.

But I can come back with more info

Kind rgds D

I have been having a lot of trouble with accessing energeticforum recently.

So, back to the topic, D, are you feeding the output of the signal generator in to an audio amplifier by any chance?

The reason for my questions is I am working on a variable frequency inverter for this project. My reason is that I will need high voltage, goo amount of power and controlable frequency.

Regards

M

[Cherryman]

I uploaded a vid about the "acoustic" vibration:
In the beginning you can clearly hear it vibrate against the container. (Pump up the volume)
VibrateSeq1.mp4 - YouTube

I Also am uploading two vids of the "foam" effect I described earlier, although nobody reacted I uploaded two little vids about it anyway. In the vid above you can clearly see it "violently " boiling in the end, but not the foam effect.. In the two below you see the foam effect.
Not on vid, but the foam went over the top once as well.
(Properly just the normal boiling stages of water, but good to experience myself)
It only occures with water pre-boiled a few times. (Less oxygen??)

Foam boiling - YouTube

Foam boiling2.mp4 - YouTube

[AhuraMazda]

Cherryman, thankyou for posting the videos. very interesting. There seems to be a lot of agitation in the water but not much heating am I right? The agitation stops as soon as you switch off the circuit. There is not much/any steam after. Did you do any temperature readings?

Also, the foaming to me seems to want to turn clock wise! Would you like to share your setup?

[Cherryman]

Steam

Hi AM,

I uploaded a vid where you can see the steam better,
The temperature of the water in and above the apparatus is around 99 Celsius, I got 100c a few times , but that could also be my meter. Depending on the on time, the whole water at the bottom also gets around 97-98 degrees.
If you look carefully you can see in this vid I loose about a cm of water in those 100 seconds.
Water level at start was a little more then a cm above the cup, at the end it is at the same level.

Steam 01.mp4 - YouTube

My setup is the most simple one you can imagine.

A SS drinking cup, with inside half of a SS pepper cup.

The inside spacing is around 10 mm at the bottom and 9 mm at the sides.

Hooked up straight to the mains ( ~220V 50 Hz )

I'm not claiming anything, so far I have an efficient and fast heater.

[PhysicsProf]

Good discussion! I've been thinking about a variable-frequency inverter also -- I suppose we all have. Is there any way to take an off-the-shelf inverter and modify it for variable freq, within a small range anyway? What "locks" the frequency in a "cheap" inverter?

I'm enjoying your vids Cherryman, and appreciate your response:

@Prof,


Hi prof,

I did some testing on water adding, and concerning the Amp draw as well, I think it is wise to not let the watter flow straight between your electrodes, at least not at full throttle.

So your tube in a tube looks good, one side closed or restricted water flow. Creating a kind of funnel. ( I hope I make sense ;-)

Your real water flow going true the middle and/or the outside, keeping the space between electrodes "superheated" or around 100C

When I add cold water, I get the best results as I let it "lift"along the flow, adding it near or inside the core will shoot Amp draw up.

PS. I added a drawing of my design. Not showing the rubber spacers.
One spacer at the bottom (1cm) and 4 at the top of the inner tube to prevent shorting.

About "resonance" My device is pretty solid, but does vibrate in all. You can hear the vibrations at start-up quit good, maybe I try to film it.

[Cherryman]

Good discussion! ....

...

You think it is a good discussion? I don't see any relevant discussion. First it (in general) was begging for replicants and information sharing.. But now there is a smell of a useful device everyone seems to hide out and wait.

I Posted a few vids, observations, questions, and the response is almost zero. Besides you, a thumbs up and good assistance with the formula, I did not see anyone really participating in even the minor questions.

So I start to wonder why I'm even bothering.

People seems (that might include me) to be becoming more and more itchy in this subforum.
Besides that I have a hard time connecting at all to this forum the last two weeks (Aaron?)

Can't help the feeling someone is smelling $$ (And I don't mean someone special, it just has a strange feeling to it ) Yes, I know about the open source and patenting stuff, and that could be important. But to me it is delay, withholding of information accomplished as group effort.

And until nothing is proven, why not share results, setups etc?
If anyone, like Lidmotor, Davro for example (sorry Sirs , in the electronics department of the forum, .. would stop posting as soon they find something interesting, it would be a quit place around here.

If this whole heater idea works, it has the simplicity of being easy replicated, patents or not, for home use anyone could make it for a few dollars.
And if it would really deliver "free" energy, or let's say above COP, then combined with the simplicity, no patent will be able to stop it, or prevent people from using it.

The only real problem would be the government aka (tax) law.

Anyway for Me it is about having a good time, fun with discovering and experimenting AND sharing, results, questions etc. The idea I might contribute a small part and the hope someone around the world comes out with something without delays, stories or other stuff.

Let's be clear, I do hope it works, and I give all the credits tho those hardworking pioneers here and else.

And yes I do still like too play around with it, but the fun of sharing in this forum is starting to disappear.

Regards C'man

[boguslaw]

Cherryman

Is your many times boiler water still so fast heated when its temperature is back to 20 degrees celsius ?

I'm still trying to get thing resonate at 400Hz. My theories were posted here. I believe it is simple device : a motor of strange type.

This is how it works : by sonic vibrations of hot electrode ,water is agitated at 50Hz and struck neutral electrode which is the essense and must vibrate at higher octave very sharply and this has to be strictly such frequency to produce standing waves around the circumference of hot electrode so 50Hz vibrations are smeared around the circumference of it (the best shape seems to be ball). The effect is like running a motor at 24000 rpm and cavitation occur inside beer can or ball or other hot electrode shape. The lifetime is limited to wall of hot and neutral electrodes durability because this is transverse vibration of walls metal exactly like in bell.

In essence it is EXACT replication of tibet singing bowl energizing.

[MonsieurM]

And yes I do still like too play around with it, but the fun of sharing in this forum is starting to disappear.

Regards C'man

Cherryman, you doing good by us all...and yes you are making a difference by showing others it can be done

the fun part has indeed just started for your experimentation...

Thank you for Taking the First Step

[Cherryman]

Hi Boguslaw, Tnx for replying.

I'm not gonna dispute you on the theory behind it.

Do have a question: what is the "Hot" electrode as the input is AC?

I can tell you what I think after my observations, but then keep in mind my device is not tuned and perfected as the other ones around here:

- The metal is not heating the water, the water itself is heated by the effect occurring between the electrodes, This also explains the immediate stop and go, (If the metal was heated it would after cook a little)

The cavitation part I think has merit, I see some strange wearing of my SS cup (strangely enough on the outside). Besides cavitation the vibrations could cause some metal fatigue added too it as well.

Finally about the shape:

I did some particle testing ( as shown a few posts back) And I think a tube or similar type shape is better. With a ball shape you focus on one point, this point can not get much hotter as 100 Celsius, so you have all energy focused in one place. This way you could overpower the spot. With a tube shaped device you get a larger heating area, so you will be able to heat faster. Of course the price for more area could be input power, so we will see ;-)

About the temp rise. I will see if I can do one more video from 20 to boiling in a larger jar, with temps and Amps.

Peace, C'man

[Cherryman]

Superheated droplet?

See this at the two second mark, a drop shoots out the top, and "explodes" on the ground, you even hear it "pops"

Superheated water? Or energized water wich I can pour in my car? ;-)

Warning: Shortest Youtube clip ever ;-)

SHW1.mp4 - YouTube

As for replicators, wear glasses and do not stand too close! Thats why I use the camera. If you might have fabricated a super heater, you do NOT want to be hit by a gulf of superheated water jumping out your test-setup while you a looking in it.

[PhysicsProf]

C'man: In the US, one wire from the mains is 'hot' AC, and the other is grounded. I don't know what they do in other countries.

You inspired me to get going with real testing of my own, Cherryman.
(Also Chet, Slovenia, D-bart, Mr. C, etc!)

Attached are the 5 metal "bells" -- I found some at the local thrift store!

Then I selected two of them, and arranged them in a nested system like we have been talking about. The two I selected ring audibly with tones close to B and B-flat (below middle C), so close to 240 Hz.

Yes, I want to drill them and attach the wires more permanently (and safely). I will be using gloves when running at 110 V, and goggles or glasses.
DaemonBart also noted some strange behaviors in the water....
Hmmm... video tomorrow hopefully. Gotta run this evening!

[Cherryman]

@PProf,

Great! Your setup in the 2cnd picture is exactly what I have, although the measurements will differ. I hope you do not forget to put a spacer at the bottom too! ;-)

Looking forward to your vids and findings, Have fun!

C'man

@BogusLaw

Started the test. Fresh water at 17 degrees, to boiling. Now I have to let it cool down, unfortunately my room is not cold enough to get the 17 Celsius back, but I will see what it will be in the morning, and restart the test.

I do know 2cnd time boiling gives a different effect, amp draw seems different to.
As for the Singing bowl, some of them telling/reporting water has "memory" as well!

Edit: First part of processing on youtube now, a boring 8 minutes and don't mind my English! ;-) FreshWaterV1500CC - YouTube


Edit 2: Prof, I can not see the material U use for the spacing, it looks like plastic or rubber hose. Be aware the heat will soften it, and could loosen up your inner cup. It will not get above 100C but I had some LEGO deforming, and some soft rubber like material getting way to soft. I now use hard rubber. Also the force while full boiling are quite aggressive, in some of my clips you can see the whole setup jumping around.

My two cents : Do not start drilling too soon, as holes do not easy grow back. Try some (stable) other ways first. Also the clamps at the cups will alter your "resonance" frequency, but I did not let that bother me. My device as a whole is rather solid due to the pressed in spacers.

[Cherryman]

About the tiny white bubbles in my previous video, I called it Hydrogen or else, I think it is else;

I think it is mostly excessive oxygen being worked out of the water. It seems to manifest primarily with fresh tap water and after that not returning anymore, not even the next day or way less if I recall well.

As the heated layers are very clear visible floating on top of cooler layers.. It almost looks like oily behavior. So Maybe the water depleted from its excessive oxygen is behaving more like a dens fluid. At least visible.

So we are creating "Heavy" light water.. Wonder if there is a market for

We will know more in the morning when i will film the startup of the same water again.

Edit:

Another strange observation, If you look at the water level at the starts and end after the first boiling (around 6:50 ) The water level has risen a cm. Thats curious, of course a tiny evaporated, a tiny got spilled, but still a cm in height. And I did not move jar or camera. Well hot things have a tendency to grow, but nice to see.

[PhysicsProf]

Yep, having fun -- thanks, c-man.

OK, sunset here -- too dark for good video. But 120 ml of water went bubbling/boiling? in 10.5 seconds. Some steam evident. I had done prior testing, so the temps to start were as follow:

Inner bell: 117 F
Between bells: 129 F

Now, after about 30 seconds after shut-down, I remeasured the temps and found:

Inner bell: 145 F
Between bells: 152 F

Sorry, will switch to degrees-C... but the point is, was this boiling really, and the temp afterwards dropped rapidly -- or was the bubbling due largely to electrolysis?? If electrolysis, why does it take 10 seconds to get to bubbling instead of immediately? Hypothesis: boiling water occurred. Comments welcomed.

Bells in a pyrex graduated bowl, bottom bell sits on the pyrex glass -- but surrounded by air for these tests.

[Cherryman]

Yep, having fun -- thanks, c-man.

OK, sunset here -- too dark for good video. But 120 ml of water went bubbling/boiling? in 10.5 seconds. Some steam evident. I had done prior testing, so the temps to start were as follow:

Inner bell: 117 F
Between bells: 129 F

Now, after about 30 seconds after shut-down, I remeasured the temps and found:

Inner bell: 145 F
Between bells: 152 F

Sorry, will switch to degrees-C... but the point is, was this boiling really, and the temp afterwards dropped rapidly -- or was the bubbling due largely to electrolysis?? If electrolysis, why does it take 10 seconds to get to bubbling instead of immediately? Hypothesis: boiling water occurred. Comments welcomed.

Bells in a pyrex graduated bowl, bottom bell sits on the pyrex glass -- but surrounded by air for these tests.

Haha Great! Playing with heat and power,



The inner Bell is filled with water too? I assume it from your post.

I think it really boiled, and yess you lost heat as quick as well.

The boiling occurs probably at the closest distance, do you have even spacing? Lets say a cm ring boiles .. you have the bubbles, but all the other water is still much cooler. So try finding your boiling point and even out your spacing as much as you can.
Second
The metal acts as a rapid cooler, to the outside air, a large area with little water. As you only heat very locally the water between the two at the closest point. The water in the inside is slowing the heating down because its get heated after the other water has heated the inner bell, and the inner bell gives it to the inside water only after longer boiling and it reaching 99 degrees, it will act neutral. Before that, it will also cool you down rapidly after you turn the power off. The volume off the inner bell, is quite a lot in comparisment with the water between the two.

C'man

Edit: Of to sleep now, be safe!