Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect

[Guest]

[ Recovering motor energy while charging 6v storage ]

[Allen Burgess]

Bifilar coil capacitance.

@Farmhand,

Charge a spool wound series connected bifilar if you have one, just by holding the two wire leads to a pair of battery electrodes for an instant. Check the coil for a stored voltage charge with a multi-meter set to the Milli Volt range.

Try this experiment with a single wrap high inductance, and compare the capacitive charge results to the spool wraped bifilar. I can assure you the spool wound series wound bifilar acts as a capacitor, just like the Tesla spiral pancake.

This is a feature Thane Heins may not be aware of, but I can assure you'll find the capacitance there. I can also assure you that the bifilar will increase motor rotor acceleration, the output is double the voltage of a parallel wireing that has lower capacitance and rotor acceleration equal to a single wrap.

Combining a thin wire with the hi-voltage bifilar series wireing, maxamizes rotor acceleration as tested by me. Don't take my word for it. It's too easy to test for. Maybe someone else can help confirm this effect. This is very important, and completely understandable thanks to Thane's enlightened analysis. We should be able to graph this effect as Overunityguide did with RPM, coil charge and Ohmic measurements.

[Farmhand]

@Farmhand,

Charge a spool wound series connected bifilar if you have one, just by holding the two wire leads to a pair of battery electrodes for an instant. Check the coil for a stored voltage charge with a multi-meter set to the Milli Volt range.

Try this experiment with a single wrap high inductance, and compare the capacitive charge results to the spool wraped bifilar. I can assure you the spool wound series wound bifilar acts as a capacitor, just like the Tesla spiral pancake.

This is a feature Thane Heins may not be aware of, but I can assure you'll find the capacitance there. I can also assure you that the bifilar will increase motor rotor acceleration, the output is double the voltage of a parallel wireing that has lower capacitance and rotor acceleration equal to a single wrap.

Combining a thin wire with the hi-voltage bifilar series wireing, maxamizes rotor acceleration as tested by me. Don't take my word for it. It's too easy to test for. Maybe someone else can help confirm this effect. This is very important, and completely understandable thanks to Thane's enlightened analysis. We should be able to graph this effect as Overunityguide did with RPM, coil charge and Ohmic measurements.

This may be right, and you're test results are likely valid, my series connected solenoid coil measure's 4 x more inductance than a single winding alone or two in parallel. You may well be right about the increased capacity but in a solenoid the windings would end up on top of each other and at angles and such, seriously reducing the full possible effect or ballancing effect.

My contention was that a serial connected parallel wound flat spiral coil is kind of self inductance-self cancelling. In that because of the way it is wound there is a larger potential difference between the turns thereby a greater capacity. The coil becomes resonant in my opinion at certain frequencies. Because it is it's own tank. EDIT: not needing an external capacitor for resonance at a desired frequency or something.

I'm not sure this potential difference would be uniform in a solenoid like a pancake. But it will still work.

Also I have never doubted the effect is real.
But is it usefull ? Maybe
Is it really Thanes idea ? Dunno. No comment.
Can it be the vehicle for overunity ? Possibly.
Is thane aware of the Tesla coil for electromagnets ? I would guess yes.

NIKOLA TESLA - Google Patents

This patent also includes helice's, solenoids and any other coil.

So you are correct. Yes. In my opinon. As covered by Nikola's patent, this effect would in fact be present in a solenoid coil.

Cheers

[qvision]

When we say we want to beat, using your example, the 0.48 mS rise-time, do we want the magnet to have completely crossed the core in less than this time, or just reach TDC in less than this time ?

I am doing a quick spreadsheet to calculate the minimum RPM needed given a certain coil/load etc ...


QV.

[Farmhand]

OK i think I worked this out now.

A parallel wound, series connected coil the current flows the same direction so it is inductive but the capacity is increased because of the increased potential between windings.

A non inductive coil has the current flowing in adjacent windings in opposite directions and so is cancelling.

This I learned from the wiki link qvision just posted. My appologies posted on the previous page.

This one.
Bifilar coil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


It says the four kinds of bifilar windngs just below the picture there.

..

[qvision]

I've been thinking about calculating the minimum RPM needed for the effect to kick in and then testing it.

All of these values are for components i have lying around and the gen coil is probably highly unsuitable.

Coil Inductance L : 0.01756
Coil Resistance R1 : 19.2
Load Resistor R2 : 220

Time Constant = L/(R1+R2)

TC = 0.01756/239.2 = 0.0734113712 mS

So, to beat the rise time the magnet must pass over the core very quickly.

Rotor diameter is 150mm, magnet dia is 20mm and flush with outer edge of rotor so magnet centre point is 10mm in from from the outside so the effective diameter is 130mm and our effective circumference (the travel line through the magnet's centre) is Pi x D = 408mm.

Let's say the magnet has to pass over the core in 0.07ms, so it must travel 10mm in 0.07ms.

Mutiply by 1000 to get us to seconds and meters =

0.7 seconds to travel 10 metres (10,000 mm).

The circumference to travel is 408mm so 10,000 / 408 = 24.509

So it has to rotate 24.509 times per second.

RPM = 24.509 * 60 = 1470.54 RPM.

Damn ! I'm testing as i'm typing, if i rotate my rotor anticlock it only gets up to 1482, clockwise it's max is 1473.

Oh well !

Can someone double-check my maths ? I'll stick it in a spreadsheet and post a link.


QV.

[Allen Burgess]

Math.

@geotron,

Looks interesting. Can you upload a video? What's your rotor RPM at "Lenz Reversal"?


@qvision

Your math looks pretty solid, but 1473 RPM'S is really retarded. Try a no bearing 1/2 inch diametric tube spinner on a small ball bearing. Get a cheap laser tach from Harbor Freight or on e-bay for $35. The bearingless spinner should easily travel ten times as fast as your rotor, and the propulsion effect should be imediate and help center the rotor. Real cheap and easy soloution.

[qvision]

@ AB, excellent idea, i already have a cheap tach and a 20 x 20mm diametric tube magnet plus carbon rod for the axle !

Thanks AB

[qvision]

I'm wondering by how much we need to beat the rise-time, i guess there's an optimal point, would we want to be at TDC at half the rise-time ?

[Shadesz]

Does it make sense that the 'potential for lenz' starts at the moment the magnetic field begins to influence the coil? This would mean that the timer starts before the magnet reaches the coil. This field size can be figured out by using a field calculator like this one... K&J Magnetics - Magnetic Field Calculator

Anyways, I haven't looked at your numbers closely enough to tell, but I just want to make sure I understand it right. when we are calculating the distance that the magnet must travel we need to include in that the "reach" of the magnetic field. Correct?

[qvision]

@Shadesz

I suppose we must include the reach of the field since, as you say, as soon as current is being induced and a load is eating it up then the CEMF begins.

I took AB's advice and hooked up my diametrically-magnetised cylinder magnet in an effort to get higher RPM's, it spun at 27,000 RPM and was still rising a little when i switched it off !

I'll do some more tinkering to see what works best, assuming i can get delayed Lenz.

*EDIT

Also, this is nice and simple in that the RPM adjusts the response to the reach of the field, i wonder what kind of window we have ? We have to get all these variables plotted and 'function-ised'.


QV.

[antony27]

Hi Marisuvic,
I think your setup is not accelaration under the load or shorting. Because, voltage of driver coil is increasing when under the load or shorting.. Think that..

[Farmhand]

This is not looking good as far as the regenerative acceleration is concerned from what Iv'e seen of Thanes video's.
First I say I don't care for the Law of whatever but there is more to it than that. Laws or no.
There are a few of us who think there is something very wrong with the picture.

In This Town We Obey the Laws of Thermodynamics | Ottawa Ske

Not the least of which in my opinion is the way he is using the motor at well below it optimum RPM and voltage, the usefull load is neglegable, and most striking of all is he is using hundreds of watts to power a couple of watts load. Also the effect looks to be caused by the load or short being too low a resistance for the generator to sustain. No reasonable load actually producing an output. A short is not an output. No energy is removed from the system by a short circuit except for losses, unless the rotor is somehow loaded to use the energy the generator coil is producing and using as a motor coil, if it even is. A short would simply circulate current in the coil.
A load is just a partial short really.

Short the coil on the DC side of a FWBR. And see what happens.

I'm calling bunk until at least I see some usefull load being run. OR some input - output figures that are better than 70 watts in 2 watts out.

Even the Dr Habash from the Uni says more testing.

Thane says he is breaking the laws of Physics then he contrdicts himself apparenty.

Anyway I think the Bi toroid is suspect too. The way it is presented reeks of not everything is presented and avoidance of the difficult questions.

I'm not big on laws of any kind. But every fibre of my body is telling me this is not right. And I am an amature. Something is wrong. With both devices and the way he demonstrates them.

I just lost interest. I tried to look at it from different viewpoints but I can't get past the enormous overhead created and the tiny load. With no attempt to load the rotor mechanically or with low impedance coils to get some output. Very difficult to get OU from a generator with no output to speak of.

No more annoyance from me, I promise.

I think if it OU show it, or don't claim it.

Input-output figure's for all OU claims. If people doubt it and you actually do have OU. Don't sweat it because you will get the last laugh.

Cheers and good luck everyone. I hope I'm wrong.

[qvision]

@ Farmhand, some welcome insights there. Hopefully when Mr Heins unveils his 'infinite range' electric car engine then we will know more.

I've been trying to get the effect using a single diametric magnet, i've tried all the way from 28,000 RPM down to 1,470 RPM in steps 250 RPM without any success.

Perhaps it is to do with rotor geometry, either side of a cylinder magnet is like two very close together magnets ?

Having said that, treebeard did it with a spherical magnet so ...

Anyway, lots more testing to do but sleepy time now


QV.

[toranarod]

I've been thinking about calculating the minimum RPM needed for the effect to kick in and then testing it.

All of these values are for components i have lying around and the gen coil is probably highly unsuitable.

Coil Inductance L : 0.01756
Coil Resistance R1 : 19.2
Load Resistor R2 : 220

Time Constant = L/(R1+R2)

TC = 0.01756/239.2 = 0.0734113712 mS

So, to beat the rise time the magnet must pass over the core very quickly.

Rotor diameter is 150mm, magnet dia is 20mm and flush with outer edge of rotor so magnet centre point is 10mm in from from the outside so the effective diameter is 130mm and our effective circumference (the travel line through the magnet's centre) is Pi x D = 408mm.

Let's say the magnet has to pass over the core in 0.07ms, so it must travel 10mm in 0.07ms.

Mutiply by 1000 to get us to seconds and meters =

0.7 seconds to travel 10 metres (10,000 mm).

The circumference to travel is 408mm so 10,000 / 408 = 24.509

So it has to rotate 24.509 times per second.

RPM = 24.509 * 60 = 1470.54 RPM.

Damn ! I'm testing as i'm typing, if i rotate my rotor anticlock it only gets up to 1482, clockwise it's max is 1473.

Oh well !

Can someone double-check my maths ? I'll stick it in a spreadsheet and post a link.


QV.

I have a question.
where was it posted about the core materials that increased inductance by 3 times? there was a post about Amorphous Metal. metglass.

good work.