The Magnet Kicker Thread

[Mark]

Ok, I’m back, what a day.. yes faaat albert was here.. some sweet sounds thundering around the lake today

We are only able to remove the trigger coil if we have the LED in place, w/o the LED it will not self-oscillate. I think it’s feeding back to the loop.

Mark this is very cool, we separated the trigger long ago, and long ago we removed the EB diode, but we never did both at the same time. This spins out of control fast. And still charges well. We are not able to light the neon or any high voltage string of LED’s, it does light an incandescent bulb at a large cost on the front end. We are only running at 3volts. We have never gone this fast w/ 3 volts.

Here is a vid showing a small 3volt primary charging a 12 volt 3.6Ah w/ scope shots. Very cool double back h wave with a negative spike at the battery ring. We’ll keep plugging away, thanks for sharing…

‪No E-B diode separate trigger mod‬‏ - YouTube


Patrick

I haven't tried this particular setup on only 3 volts yet. I'm sure if you went up in voltage a little your neon would come on. If you have the right load on the spike the motor speeds up even more. You might be able to light that neon with only 3 volts if you play around with the timing a little.

I have a couple more things I'm going to try out and them I'll be adding 2 more coils for a coil shorting set up to see how that works.

Wish I had a scope, thanks for the video look.

Mark

[minoly]

I haven't tried this particular setup on only 3 volts yet. I'm sure if you went up in voltage a little your neon would come on. If you have the right load on the spike the motor speeds up even more. You might be able to light that neon with only 3 volts if you play around with the timing a little.

I have a couple more things I'm going to try out and them I'll be adding 2 more coils for a coil shorting set up to see how that works.

Wish I had a scope, thanks for the video look.

Mark

I'm sure my wheel or core is different in some way, I'll try a few other coils today.

@ 5 volts the RPM is 2500 w/ 12 magnets N,S,N,S.


Do you have 6 or 3 on your wheel? I just want to compare apples to apples.


I loaded it at 12 volts only for about 10-15 seconds to see if the neon would light, it did not. the wheel doubled in speed w/in those few seconds. and the transistor started to heat up. I dared not spin it up to its full potential, all I have holding those magnets in is some nylon tape I get the neon to light @3volts no problem when I switch to the normal SSG ckt using the trigger from the bifiler/power coil

I might cannibalize one of our 3PM's to match what you are doing a bit more. I suspect I do not have enough wire on that coil - 4.2ohms

Sure the increase in speed is fun and the fact that the spike is also increased is cool, as well as the SSSG (seriously simplified school girl) no EB diode. oh, did I mention the on time is decrease significantly... but - what interests me in this modification is that negative spike. I've been able to get that negative spike before, but not to the levels I see it now with this mod.
we'll keep experimenting w/ it and see if anything comes of it.
thanks,

Patrick

[Mark]

Minoly

I've have the 3 pole rotor all north. My 21194 has no heat at all may even be a little cold at times, I've checked it often. I never put more than 100ma into it. Best effeciency for light output and low input seems to be around 30-50ma. The 1.5 watt Lights of America light up at around 70 volts and get brighter and brighter as the voltage goes up. I get good light with 40-50ma input. 3 bulbs lit and with a bridge and cap holds at around 101 volts.

I'm doing some testing to compare the 21194 and 3055. Some slight differences but no heat out of the 3055 either. I think a NSNS rotor maybe causing your heat.

[Slider2732]

Thanks guys, learning a lot here from the input

Regarding the no trigger coil needed situation -
My thinking was that trigger coil capacitance was created and drained, such that that action somehow affected the MOSFET and switched it.

HOWEVER -
I removed the trigger coil completely and directly soldered the Gate pin wire to the positive power wire.
The LED doesn't light, but the circuit and rotor runs from 3V.
I've stripped other stuff off the circuit that wasn't being used and what is left is just the MOSFET and power coil.
Take a look at the pic

[minoly]

Minoly

I've have the 3 pole rotor all north. My 21194 has no heat at all may even be a little cold at times, I've checked it often. I never put more than 100ma into it. Best effeciency for light output and low input seems to be around 30-50ma. The 1.5 watt Lights of America light up at around 70 volts and get brighter and brighter as the voltage goes up. I get good light with 40-50ma input. 3 bulbs lit and with a bridge and cap holds at around 101 volts.

I'm doing some testing to compare the 21194 and 3055. Some slight differences but no heat out of the 3055 either. I think a NSNS rotor maybe causing your heat.

Nice slider, strip down and get basic. I like it. does it need the LED's feed back then to oscillate?


@Mark
So if I'm getting 2500 rpm with, let's just call it, 6 magnets - we can multiply that rotor speed by 2 to compare it to your 3pole - let's call it 5k rpm - with the coil I have on the CD spinner.

I cannibalized the 3PM kit and am attempting to replicate your experiment to the T. I still can not get the neon to light. do you mind taking a look and see what I'm doing different?

‪S SSG‬‏ - YouTube

thanks,
Patrick

[Slider2732]

Nope..doesn't need the LED either

I've found it to be stunning, how just a MOSFET and a coil will spin the rotor.
Here's the latest video to demonstrate that. It uses a triangular coil with no core, that's mounted sideways....
It took a few attempts to get down to 3V running and will normally fail at 4.5V, but I grabbed the camera while it was running at 3V. Very unreliable, but works. Multi-stranded coils, especially, work great and down to 3V.
Next tests will be with a battery, to see if A/C ripple is causing the MOSFET to switch.

‪The simplest pulse motor ?‬‏ - YouTube

[Mark]

Nice slider, strip down and get basic. I like it. does it need the LED's feed back then to oscillate?


@Mark
So if I'm getting 2500 rpm with, let's just call it, 6 magnets - we can multiply that rotor speed by 2 to compare it to your 3pole - let's call it 5k rpm - with the coil I have on the CD spinner.

I cannibalized the 3PM kit and am attempting to replicate your experiment to the T. I still can not get the neon to light. do you mind taking a look and see what I'm doing different?

‪S SSG‬‏ - YouTube

thanks,
Patrick

Looks like you have it right to me. Do you have an air core for the trigger coil? If you have a core remove it, that will also cure your heat problem so you can get rid of the pot if you want.

I haven't tried a neon yet so not sure if it does light up. Do you have any 1.5 watt Lights of America Led bulbs? Those work better then anything I have found so far. I think because they are a capacitive load instead of a more resistant one.

Was just running mine on 4 volts and about 20ma, 1460 rpm with no load. With a load of 28 leds it pulls the rotor down to around 1000 rpm and the leds start to flicker but are pretty bright. If I hook up a Lights of America bulb the rotor it speeds back up to 1460 but with very little light output.

EDIT: I just found an old 110-125 volt red neon. It DOES light up, its not bright or anything but it is lit!

[Slider2732]

Now I can start to move upward to your work with this sort of circuit Mark, because i've stripped out to an end point - the main focus of the thread being to keep to the simplest of systems.


We can't get simpler than this:
JUST A COIL

The line hum remaining in the power supply is all that is needed to run a rotor around. The frequency matching is done by hand, when spinning up the rotor. That intuitive spin that is often needed on pulse motors, to kick the thing into operation is the same thing used to start this one.
In this case, it's a 7 stranded multi-strand coil, running on anything from 3V upward at the exact same rotational speed all the way.
It's a motor that uses DC to create an electromagnet and AC for the frequency

Check it out -

‪Pulse Motor - Just a coil‬‏ - YouTube

[Slider2732]

A concept is forming now - which may have holes in it of immense size !
This raw motor is probably to be called a Hum Motor.
The final circuit need only be started by an AC source, or indeed a simple inverter circuit...like this one for battery operation: How to Build An Inverter? The Ultimate Circuit of a Mini Inverter
The BEMF is collected from the powered coil and pickup coils.
The AC ripple is constant, by the switching of the coil and magnet interaction, one supplying the other by conventional pulse logic. The AC collapse of the powering coil has to be kept 'alive'.
We can know the rotation speed and many folks will already know what speed my motor is chugging at I would think, but I don't.
We know what would be needed to be generated, based on the minimum requirement to power the rotor at its set speed.
The AC to DC conversion should happen at an end isolated point and feed back in to the coil, with the AC component overlayed.

For the raw 7 strand coil as above, my meter says 3V is 23mA (at 4.5V is 35mA).
Rotation speed *appears* to be around 400RPM. Apologies all the way for the inexact figurings.

Could an OU motor really be so simple ? I have no idea but am enjoying this

[Slider2732]

Rounding the day off, by having some fun with this Hum Motor.

Here we have a coil that is positioned strangely and a simple Ed Leedskalnin type PMH powering the rotor around...the end of the video is perhaps worth watching
Running voltage was 6V.

‪Hum Motor - having some fun‬‏ - YouTube


Not shown on the video, was an experiment just now, where the rotor will run by using a trigger coil from a disposable camera:

[totoalas]

Mag Hummm Motor

Thanks Slider
MY ROTOR IS ALIVE AND KICKING

cheers

totoalas



‪Mag HUMM Motor 090811.avi‬‏ - YouTube

[quantumuppercut]

Could an OU motor really be so simple ?

I'm with the Why not nation. lol

[minoly]

Rounding the day off, by having some fun with this Hum Motor.

Here we have a coil that is positioned strangely and a simple Ed Leedskalnin type PMH powering the rotor around...the end of the video is perhaps worth watching
Running voltage was 6V.

‪Hum Motor - having some fun‬‏ - YouTube


Not shown on the video, was an experiment just now, where the rotor will run by using a trigger coil from a disposable camera:

Is this where we're at... ok, I'll bite... now try plugging it into your phone line, then you can have it "free"

[Slider2732]

LOL Patrick...well really I was impressed by yours and Marks work, but just wondered how simple that simple could be as an understanding of a start point.
Initially, a good reliable solution for my workbench Energy Saver, with the minimum of parts and therefore fuss.
Then use a few Muller gen type tricks and see where things may go from this concept.

@totoalas
I had no idea you are imtotob on YouTube hehe

[Mark]

I spent a little timing playing with the coil shorting. Unfortunately I do not see any advantage to coil shorting. You can collect a higher voltage but the overall power is lower (with my simple set up anyway).

Minoly were you using a core in your trigger coil? I just ran my set up on 24 volts while charging a 12 volt battery and still had no heat (just a little bit warmer the ambient). Which has me puzzled because almost every other time I've used 24 volts I always have heat! When jumping from 12 to 24 volts on the fly the rotor actually slowed down so I thought for sure the tranny would be hot but it wasn't. Amp draw was 120ma.

Mark