Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[Zooty]

Going back to the device in question and the effects we are trying to reproduce. Romero stated that we need to get the rotor to speed up under load before moving on and that this could be done with many configurations. It would seem that magnet spacing and coil types can vary somewhat and still create this effect. We have seen it with magnets all facing one direction and alternating nsns. We have seen it with ferrite and iron cores. There has to be something in common here. One of those i think is core saturation. If we look at Romero's replication, we see 6mm ferrite x 15mm long. The magnets are 20mmx10mm neo's capable of saturating those cores no problem. Maybe the magnets on top are there to reduce saturation to near 100% The closer to full saturation, the better the effect. Obviously this is combined with the low impedance/high inductance of the coil. Again guy's i am just speculating from what i have seen.

[142857]

so, it's not going to "self run".

then

besides wind, which already seems to have a pretty good method, what are some valid uses of a "lensless" generator?

[minoly]

like any number of bedini threads, this one seems to have strayed from the path, in that there doesn't seem to be very much emphasis on what the actual intended goal was.

Can anybody concisely explain what the ultimate aim of this device is?

Think about it.

49845065 I feel your pain, I too am not one that enjoys reading for the sake of reading.

To keep it all in perspective, I look at each of these threads as a bit of history in the making, everyone has a story, many lives and thinkers intertwining. innovation will have a difficult time rearing it's delicate head if too much attention is paid to structure. this is a fantastic thread and some excellent work has been accomplished. it's all here in these pages and anyone's for the taking if they have the gumshoe.

Patrick

[142857]

like any number of bedini threads, this one seems to have strayed from the path, in that there doesn't seem to be very much emphasis on what the actual intended goal was.

Can anybody concisely explain what the ultimate aim of this device is?

Think about it.

[Shadesz]

Newbie question...

Is a cycle time considered the time it takes for the magnets effect to start and stop affecting the coil? Or is it the time it takes for the start of one cycle to the start of another cycle? Just trying to get my head around basic terminology. Thanks in advance

[quantumuppercut]

Nice,

I just thought of something that may see the delay/phase shift . We can compare the time of a complete cycle vs RPM. If they are in phase, then the ratio time/RPM must be constant. We can plot this out by sweeping RPM and graph it.

[marxist]

It's good to know if there is a time delay in materials.

Yes, there is.
The way Physicists "explain" this in tech jargon is:
Reluctance of a material depends on the permeability of the material.
An when we look up Permeability (electromagnetism) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia we find:

...While at low frequencies in a linear material the magnetic field [in that material, i.e. in the core] and the auxiliary magnetic field [that is the field of the magnet] are simply proportional to each other through some scalar permeability, at high frequencies these quantities will react to each other with some lag time

And such an interaction with delay (or call it phase shift), can lead to an effect like in the old movies, when the stage-coach with the big cart wheels leaves the town in the Wild West.
The eye reacts with delay to the images and at a certain rpm of the coach's wheels, one can clearly see these wheels spin backwards while the coach actually moves forward.
The spinning backwards may be VIRTUAL (and not "real"), but how can you know what is real? You get nausea.
Please note: You know reality, because you can observe it. And you can clearly observe the wheels going backwards. Imagine you are a magnet with limited intelligence. What would be your reality? What would you react to? To the "virtual reality" which you can clearly observe, i.e. measure? Or to "real reality" (which is nowhere to be seen)?

[quantumuppercut]

Good point about polarization and delay model.

I think they define reluctance similar to resistance. Magnetize material have low reluctance compare to air and vacuum. They didn't mention anything about time though. It's good to know if there is a time delay in materials. I'm pretty sure it does. If we say it's the speed of light, I don't think the rotor speed we're having now will cut it. So if we going to model this way, the delay time must be a lot.

[marxist]

... Do you think that ferromagnetic material speed up magnetic flux or rather slow down ?

Hi boguslaw,
I don't know.
But I think the speed-up effect is not primarily related to the "propagation speed" of the magnetic flux in a coil core.

I think what helps us and what causes the speed-up effect, is that it takes time to polarize and then reverse-polarize a ferromagnetic core. I think physicists call this "reluctance". A ferromagnetic core "is reluctant" to change its polarity (when forced to do so by a passing magnet).

With an air core or vacuum, polarization of the core would happen "instantaneous". And this is why we need ferromagnetic cores - if my understanding is correct.

In other words: with a ferromagnetic core, there is a DELAY between the cause (= the passing magnet) and the effect/reaction (= polarization of the core).

If the rotor speed is high enough and just right, then there is just the right delay that the Lenz-force speeds up the rotor instead of slowing it down.

[boguslaw]

Hmm...
Light speed is maximum in vacuum, that means matter slow it down.
Do you think that ferromagnetic material speed up magnetic flux or rather slow down ?

[elias]

laminates are less than 0.35mm in thickness and are much appropriate.
My next test will be done with magnets that have double thickness thus more magnetic flux to them, thus yielding to more voltage per RPM, as I recall Muller was using one inch thick magnets.

[toranarod]

Rod, can you test this with a ferrite core, I want to know if this effect is related to Iron cores or not. thanks, I have a rotor with 16 15mm dia magnets on it, going to use that for my newer tests.

I am on it.

need to find the right size core

[elias]

Rod, can you test this with a ferrite core, I want to know if this effect is related to Iron cores or not. thanks, I have a rotor with 16 15mm dia magnets on it, going to use that for my newer tests.

[elias]

Nothing new, of course this might be because my magnets are large. The welding rods must not differ that much from laminated Iron plates.
You provided to final proof, so thank you for that, that motivates us. will be doing some tests.

[toranarod]

Rodney,
I have tested a bunch of welding rods as a core, but they do heat up, and drag the rotor, the core is about 40mm in diameter, a pretty large core, and the magnet is 45mm in diameter. The welding rods are 2mm welding rods. I even used some straight clips as a core, but it made no difference, they did heat up.
Thanks

Hello Elias
My internet is down somebody near my home dug up the fiber optic cable.

thanks for the info about the welding rods. I was going to give them a try.
That is the most easily available material.

I have been working for a living the last few days and not had time to start my motor generator. Its on my mind and I will makes some changes.

have you had any more advances with your motor? anything new to share?