On inductive discharge...

[ren]

I have been pondering a question that has bothered me of late. I am looking for a conventional answer as to why I got the results I did. I already know the unconventional answer, but Im wondering if there is a rebuttal to it.

Let me explain the test I performed.

First test apparatus.

Single quadfilar coil, 8 pole all north rotor. SG circuit x 3, each power strand @ 1.2 ohms AWG 18. Charging a 1120uF capacitor. Circuit draws no more than 1 amp dc @ 12v input. The capacitor will only fill up to 140v, if the capacitor is lower in capacitance it will fill higher, but I was using the same capacitor on both tests to make it uniform.

So 12v @ 1 amp fills cap to 140v.

Second test apparatus.

3 coil hexfilars, 3 pole all north rotor, SG circuit x 18, 2.2 ohms per strand AWG 19. Charging same capacitor as above with the SAME input, 12v, 1 amp MAX. This capacitor will fill till the limit of the cap (and maybe higher) 400v, yet the input power is identical to the first test.

So my question:

Is there a currently accepted scientific answer for this. Ive butted heads with people in the past that say the inductive discharge is ONLY dependent on the CURRENT flowing through the coil upon switch open and the speed at which the switch opens. Nothing else, its as straight forward as that, or so they say.

So, how is it that two identical current draws can charge a capacitor to two different levels? Does this not lend credibility to Bedini/Krons concept of parallel network paths? Because the only real difference between the two devices as listed above is one has 6 times more parallel strands, they both use the same switching device, and both operate at 12v, 1 amp.

Im interested in your responses.

Regards

[citfta]

Hi Ren,

As you may know I am not a skeptic. I have seen too many strange things with my SSGs and my window motor and Tesla Switch. Things that are not explained by "conventional theory". There is one more thing you need to include to make your observations more convincing. Does the cap in the second setup charge as fast as the cap in the first setup. Or in other words are you trading voltage for current? I know as well as you do that our windings in a normal SSG are 1 to 1 so there is no real transformer action to cause a change in current and voltage. But the skeptic might say that some kind of transformer action is causing the second circuit to produce more voltage and less current. So a measure of how fast the second circuit charges the cap as compared to the first circuit might convince them there is something else going on that conventional theory doesn't explain. Just my 2 cents. I always look forward to your posts. Thanks for sharing your observations.

Carroll

[ren]

Hi Carrol,

Thanks for your response.

I dont entirely follow your question, yes there is no conventional transformer action as the windings are all 1:1. The skeptic might jump onto the fact that the two rotors are different in this case. Thus the speed at which the first rotor runs is alot slower than the second, partly because it is a single coil unit and partly because its diameter is twice as large. But it does have 8 magnets, thus 8 triggerings per revolution, as opposed to the other rotor @ 3 triggerings per revolution. So to be completely fool proof one would have to examine both coil arrangements on an identical rotor I guess. Frequency aside, I am trying to focus on the fact that both circuits draw identical amounts from the same source voltage, yet one is capable of charging the capacitor to 4 x the voltage of the other. If I run less power strands on this second unit then it cannot, the addition of power strands switching in unison increases its capabilities.

To answer your question which Im sure you already know the second circuit charges the capacitor up MUCH faster. This could be in part to a faster frequency however. It would be good to have a "1 shot" mode, where one could pulse one coil configuration once, and measure just how much one pulse can deliver to the capacitor. The capacitor needs a certain amount of current to charge it to this level I thought. Im sure there would be a mathematical equation to figure this out. So what is it about the second circuit that allows it to push this cap to a higher voltage? The cap is full, it is not a "fluffy" charge which could happen if it was pushing more voltage and less current like you suggest? (you can see the second example on my cap discharge video, charging the capacitor/s in question to over 300v). Regardless, the inputs to both circuits are identical, only the frequency differs.

Some people might come out and say that 18 x 2.2 ohms in parallel will have a lower impedance than the 3 x 1.2 ohms, which is kind of what I was hoping for, as I have a long standing argument with a douchebag that there is NO impedance related phenomena within the SG circuit (silly I know).

So is it impedance related or is it something else?

Regards

[blackchisel97]

To me it is perfectly fine and in line with Kron and stressed by John Bedini as well.
Is there a currently accepted scientific answer for this? I don't know. I guess it depends what science is willing to accept atm. They had a problem with Aether and later came up with ZPE so they didn't have to admit the simple fact staring them in the face
I see the coils acting like a compressing and decompressing spring with inlet valve around the Bloch Wall perimeter. Valve with ability to regulate itself and let the gas in, This is responsible for hv spike. To me appears (based on my experience) that inductance matters just as shape and number of windings on the coiled spring will affect the effect. Even if we use same current (analogy to same pressure on the spring).


Vtech

[citfta]

Hi Ren,

I guess I didn't phrase that very well. What I was trying to say was that a skeptic might say that there was a difference in transformer action which could cause the second setup to charge with a higher voltage but lower amperage. In which case the second setup would charge the cap to a higher voltage but would take much longer to get there. You have now explained that not only is it getting to a higher voltage but it is getting there quicker too! As you earlier posted what you have defies conventional theory. I was just trying to help you clear up any questions a skeptic might have.

C ya, Carroll

[Shanjaq]

Is there some way to make use of the inductive discharge Immediately after it goes into the capacitor? Why is it necessary to pulse Several Times, fill the cap, then dump it at an arbitrary time? Seems like it'd be a bumpy ride

[ren]

Hi Ren,

I guess I didn't phrase that very well. What I was trying to say was that a skeptic might say that there was a difference in transformer action which could cause the second setup to charge with a higher voltage but lower amperage. In which case the second setup would charge the cap to a higher voltage but would take much longer to get there. You have now explained that not only is it getting to a higher voltage but it is getting there quicker too! As you earlier posted what you have defies conventional theory. I was just trying to help you clear up any questions a skeptic might have.

C ya, Carroll

Yes Carroll, thats how Im trying to approach this. How would the skeptic answer this question?

Shanjaq, you are making use of the inductive discharge BY storing it in the capacitor. If you want the capacitor to fill to a higher voltage than the source input of a single pulse then you must employ a transformer where the turns ratio is not 1:1 AFAIK.

Regards

[Shanjaq]

Shanjaq, you are making use of the inductive discharge BY storing it in the capacitor. If you want the capacitor to fill to a higher voltage than the source input of a single pulse then you must employ a transformer where the turns ratio is not 1:1 AFAIK.

Regards

What if you charge an inductor until it saturates, then interrupt the charging current, which causes the inductor to discharge into Any Available Capacitance? The resulting potential in the capacitor being determined by its capacitance relative to the inductance. If you need 4kv in one pulse, just interrupt a 1-amp current through a 10mH inductor and provide a 1nf capacitor! Discharge that 4kv through another 10mH inductor and it will saturate exactly as quickly as the previous one discharged...

[Stephen Brown]

Resonant States?

Ren,
You said "frequency aside".
Do you believe that one coil my be achieving a resonant state and the other my not. Since we're asking the question, I have pondered this same idea. Why some coils will give much better performance than others in certain setups.
You seemed to discount the resonant frequencies of the two coils. Have you explored that part of the setup and not strictly voltage/amperage.
If so, tell me your observations so that I can set this part of the equation aside?
We know that each specific coil will hit it's resonant frequency and put out 4 times as much energy depending on it's oscillation speed and voltage.
I have always felt this was a factor in some of my machines but I have never specifically set out to prove it through observation.
Since this is a brainstorming of ideas. You've set me to thinking. I fear this is going to drive me crazy until it's answered.
For my part, I now have a signal generator on the way as part of the answer to my own question. Determine the resonant frequency of a given coil and set up an SSG simply to match that speed and voltage. Then observe.
Has this territory been covered already from your point of view?
Let me know what you think.
Stephen Brown

[blackchisel97]

@Stephen Brown I've done that and my results were comparable to the coil tuned to the sweet spot. I didn't fully explore various duty cycles. It was sort of sudden urge to know and to find out. After that I have moved on and actually never employed this finding in any of my builds.
This is also covered by John Bedini patent.


Vtech

[Stephen Brown]

Resonant States.

@Stephen Brown I've done that and my results were comparable to the coil tuned to the sweet spot. I didn't fully explore various duty cycles. It was sort of sudden urge to know and to find out. After that I have moved on and actually never employed this finding in any of my builds.
This is also covered by John Bedini patent.


Vtech

blackchisel97
Upon investigating this further, I now think that a coil that is "Running" within an SSG build, be it magnetically triggered or Solid State is by definition in a resonant state.
I think that my be different than "running at the sweet spot" for a given setup. Weight of rotor, batteries, input voltages, resistor sizes, bulbs in the base circuit all must contribute to where this sweet spot lies.
I think my first post was a question regarding whether one coil might be closer to running at the sweet spot and therefore would show better performance than the other coil that was further from it.
Tell me if you agree with any or all of my statement and if you think any of this address's Ren's question at the beginning of the thread.
Sincerely
Stephen