If we find free energy, then what?

[blackchisel97]

@ Steve220Can I get 40 acre's in say, down town New York city? if so count me in.

You can have my share. Not interested in NY acreage even if someone would offer to pay me.

@Farmhand This is controversial however, I fully agree that we shouldn't have to pay "someone" because we were born here and own piece of land or any other property. They print in caps our first and last name on every piece of document therefore exercising an old law designed to govern vessels. As such we're no longer a "natural beings" but corporations, subject to all nonsense aimed at "milking" us and leaving with bare minimum to survive.
If we were able to achieve independence in energy field (and it is my strong belief we will) the consequence for every spiritual (not guided by greed, hate and unsatisfied hunger for absolute power) being will be enormous. I spent fair amount of time (years) trying to paint a picture of such change applied to my life. Picture is beautiful and I urge every one to do the same - imagine.
Such change, however uncomfortable for some doesn't have to result in economic collapse, which may be artificially created despite that anyway but will lead to much broader independence which has been slowly taken away from us.
It is just a matter of time and frequency


Vtech

[Farmhand]

And i agree with you, that we should discuss and consider the possible side effects. Definately.

Here is an example of how things are going.

Govt electricity networks charge double

To tell the truth that news article doesn't make much sense to me.

Maybe I read it wrong. If they privatise the whole system then what happens if they (private company's) go broke. Do we then have to pay someone to sell us power ? Or start selling it to ourselves again.

They are selling all the public assets that make profits. And cost's go up aswell.

eg. Our telephone company used to make lots of money. Billions every year. So the Government decided to sell it, funny thing is the people who already owned it "Australian Citizens" were given the first option to buy it from themselves. And they did The one's who could afford to that is.

Unbelievable. A company already owned by all Australians "TELSTRA" was purchased by some Australians. That smells a bit fishy to me. So instead of "all" Australians profiting, now only some do. This is but one example. There are many more. And they will not stop voluntarily.

Cheers

[Steve220]

Maybe

Yes I can also see a world where free energy creates a Garden of Eden, but I would not bet on it.

I do think that the oil cartels and the upper 1% of the population that is claimed to control the world will quickly shift gears and invest in / buy up other raw materials that are or will soon be in short supply.

The goal is control, no matter what the material is. Things that were once cheap will become expensive, scarce and in short supply. If you need it, they will control it. Oil or something else. Don't matter.

Free energy won't cause these people to slow down at all, just change the materials they control. And if it is really not in short supply, they will make sure it is in short supply to keep the price up.
Greed is greed no matter what the material is.
I do think we will still be getting ripped off as before, but from a different direction.

[Farmhand]

Yes I can also see a world where free energy creates a Garden of Eden, but I would not bet on it.

I do think that the oil cartels and the upper 1% of the population that is claimed to control the world will quickly shift gears and invest in / buy up other raw materials that are or will soon be in short supply.

The goal is control, no matter what the material is. Things that were once cheap will become expensive, scarce and in short supply. If you need it, they will control it. Oil or something else. Don't matter.

Free energy won't cause these people to slow down at all, just change the materials they control. And if it is really not in short supply, they will make sure it is in short supply to keep the price up.
Greed is greed no matter what the material is.
I do think we will still be getting ripped off as before, but from a different direction.

Excelent logic, I can't argue with that. Seems you have me stalemated !

Not to worry.

Free energy shouldn't be a problem then ! Checkmate !

Just kidding. Though it would seem to make sense too. The problem is not with having free energy, the problem is with the greed.

It is a catch 22 situation in some respects, and I guess most everything is, before one can give something, one must first take.

Cheers

[JasonD]

I believe the very first thing to start is to forge trusting relationships with people that are thinking the same way. For example I believe
-that abundant free energy is a reality
-We are better off working together than working separately
-There are more important issues at hand than money
-A plan to carefully introduce a free energy invention is more important than the invention itself
Truthfully this forum is a pretty good place to meet some people and get some of those relationship started, even if the site is a money making enterprise. A worker is worth his keep. And I am glad to see there is a least a handful of people who are thinking along the same lines.

This next thing to do is to organize, a little better, an open source model for inventing. How does that look? Any ideas? I believe there are 2 parts to any invention. First you have efforts that lead up into a working prototype, next you develop the prototype into a functional machine. I think most of us are trying to come up with a working prototype. So do we just throw ideas up onto a forum, or do we set standards for published findings, or do we put out bounties for experiments we need to get done, do we donate to help those needing supplies for material, do we release scheduled project plans and findings every 6 months as snapshots of how the project is, do we....(I could go on forever). Question is what does a open source model for inventing look like? Has anyone ever been part of an open source project before?

[blackchisel97]

Yes I can also see a world where free energy creates a Garden of Eden, but I would not bet on it.

I do think that the oil cartels and the upper 1% of the population that is claimed to control the world will quickly shift gears and invest in / buy up other raw materials that are or will soon be in short supply.

The goal is control, no matter what the material is. Things that were once cheap will become expensive, scarce and in short supply. If you need it, they will control it. Oil or something else. Don't matter.

Free energy won't cause these people to slow down at all, just change the materials they control. And if it is really not in short supply, they will make sure it is in short supply to keep the price up.
Greed is greed no matter what the material is.
I do think we will still be getting ripped off as before, but from a different direction.

I understand your concerns and your points are valid. However, when I said to "paint" the picture for yourself I meant to look around and see how your life could change if you don't have to buy energy. In every aspect of your everyday life. Do you see the way you can be taxed for not being connected to the grid? If you try to see what you need rather than what would be nice to have you may realize that you don't need much to be comfortable. We're constantly bombarded with media selling us tons of stuff we can live without.
Few years ago I had a piece of land, 10 goats providing dairy, garden providing nearly everything we needed, river supplying fish which I either baked or smoked. I was making my own hard white cheese, butter, marinates, jams and baked my own bread. Goats paid for themselves and maintenance (I was selling their kids ) and kept my lawn nicely trimmed. I had own deep well and wood cooking stove. I remember an ice storm and blizzard pounding for a few days (no electricity, of course) and listening to the forecast, untroubled. I estimated my need for electricity to be comfortable was under 800W. I don't use dryer, dishwasher nor TV. I know, this isn't an option for everyone (especially those who own a flat in NY and marinate for couple hours a day in the traffic on GW Bridge). Also, people in big cities have much less options to become independent and self sufficient but this "energy shift" will be an option and solution for many, living away from metropolies, working low paying jobs and worrying about every penny they have to spend to pay bills. I'm not deeply concerned about those who own 40 acres of NY and make more in one day than I make per year,
Those who control power sources control the world and nations, governments
and enslave the rest of us manipulating the tag for each KW. Slight fluctuation of frequency will result in additional 5 - 15 dollars per month, per household. Not much and almost impossible to detect by average person. This has been going on for too long and too many people suffered while trying to change the way we live by providing us with cheaper energy. We owe them more than just gratitude.


Vtech

[Steve220]

I agree

"A plan to carefully introduce a free energy invention is more important than the invention itself"

I do think this is important for sure.

[Steve220]

I see

Ok my picture is more in black and white than color I guess.
The state I live in is already trying to figure out how to tax electric cars that don't pay a fuel tax to pay for highways. I would guess the same would be for electric service that you would not have also.

Someone is going to pay the existing tax one way or the other. Of course the tax is a small part, so if you have free energy, the tax that is added on to something else to make up for it would be small so you may not notice. So that is a plus, may be. I do agree that you can get by with less, I know I do.

With free energy, I would expect to see prices drop on some but not all items. Some items may shoot up in price. Over all may be lower. As I said before, I expect to see most raw material prices take a jump as they are quickly bought up by the upper 1% to make up for the loss of oil income.
Fuel prices for your car would really drop, creating more driving, more pollution, for a few years until electric cars come on line.

I still think people will have to go to work to pay bills as before, but would have more spendable income thanks to free energy, to buy junk they don't really need. So larger land fills and recycling centers will be needed.

There may be more free time, or may be not, don't know. Some people don't do very good with free time on their hands and get into things they should not be doing. The tourist industry could see a big increase.

I do expect the economy to improve, but remember it will be because any saved money from free energy will be spent on more cars, bigger homes, expensive vacations, junk you don't need. not saving. Money must be put in circulation to make a difference in the economy.

I would expect the population to increase as ecomomics play a important part in starting a family. Of course, you need a home, a car and all. So there will be an increased load on the enviroment, city services, highways, increased driving, traffic, more urban sprawl and all, even if you have electric powered cars.

So planning for increased growth due to free energy is important also.

No, I don't think it would be all that different than now for most people, except you may have some extra money at the end of the month, if you don't spend it on something else.

Here is something else, just like a raise in pay at work, after a while you don't even notice. Same with free energy, after a while you won't even notice.

[Farmhand]

The demand for electrical appliances will Sky-Rocket so if we can design and build stuff we should be OK for a job. And in demand. I would hope.

That would be one good thing but then the demand for the raw materials will also sky-rocket.

I think this is what you are getting at Steve in some ways, I see, and it make's sense. There is an inverse to every thing, seems like insurmountable odds. But simple free energy would help. Maybe it is a good thing most device's are very low output.

Cheers

[Farmhand]

I believe the very first thing to start is to forge trusting relationships with people that are thinking the same way. For example I believe
-that abundant free energy is a reality
-We are better off working together than working separately
-There are more important issues at hand than money
-A plan to carefully introduce a free energy invention is more important than the invention itself
Truthfully this forum is a pretty good place to meet some people and get some of those relationship started, even if the site is a money making enterprise. A worker is worth his keep. And I am glad to see there is a least a handful of people who are thinking along the same lines.

This next thing to do is to organize, a little better, an open source model for inventing. How does that look? Any ideas? I believe there are 2 parts to any invention. First you have efforts that lead up into a working prototype, next you develop the prototype into a functional machine. I think most of us are trying to come up with a working prototype. So do we just throw ideas up onto a forum, or do we set standards for published findings, or do we put out bounties for experiments we need to get done, do we donate to help those needing supplies for material, do we release scheduled project plans and findings every 6 months as snapshots of how the project is, do we....(I could go on forever). Question is what does a open source model for inventing look like? Has anyone ever been part of an open source project before?

Hi Jason, we seem to have swamped you're post Sorry

You're idea's look all good. Very good questions to think about.

Cheers

[Steve220]

Ummmm

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That is nice, but I don't know what this has to do with free energy.

[boguslaw]

Are you sure that free energy could be joined together with money ? What if that's forbidden ? Do you really know how fuel tax is used ? Shouldn't it be used for repairing roads ? Think about it. I see that all the time every year , when the same holes in roads are repaired again and again and again and again... yet I'm sure there is a way to fix it for 10 years at least.Though such methods are not used because money goes elsewhere...

[Steve220]

Taxes

Right now the state I live in is already working on ways to tax electric cars. Thinking way ahead for sure on this one. Driving a electric car that is powered by free energy is not going to be tax free.
I would think it would be difficult to tax sometihing that is free, but I am sure a way will be found. Some kind of use tax or similar. Kind of like being charged extra for a un listed phone number. It is not in the phone book, yet you pay extra for this.

As far as where tax money goes, federal, state, local, every one has their hand out. I agree, fuel tax should be used to repair roads, but I do wonder where it really goes. I see the pie charts that show how the money is spent, but......

[blackchisel97]

Right now the state I live in is already working on ways to tax electric cars. Thinking way ahead for sure on this one. Driving a electric car that is powered by free energy is not going to be tax free.
I would think it would be difficult to tax sometihing that is free, but I am sure a way will be found. Some kind of use tax or similar. Kind of like being charged extra for a un listed phone number. It is not in the phone book, yet you pay extra for this.

As far as where tax money goes, federal, state, local, every one has their hand out. I agree, fuel tax should be used to repair roads, but I do wonder where it really goes. I see the pie charts that show how the money is spent, but......

Just look at all conflicts around the world and military involvement, military research and covert operations. Trillions, not billions.
Funny you mentioned pot holes. Every time driving through MA I was thinking (while cleaning spilled coffee) why do they patch asphalt with concrete and concrete with asphalt, especially on overpasses. Only Bronx Expressway was comparable. I guess if they would try to do everything to last it will create serious unemployment issue.
If I would convert my car to electric or have alternative energy source I see no need for anyone (whom I don't trust) to know about. Same rule applies to any aspect of my personal life.


V

[boguslaw]

Just look at all conflicts around the world and military involvement, military research and covert operations. Trillions, not billions.
Funny you mentioned pot holes. Every time driving through MA I was thinking (while cleaning spilled coffee) why do they patch asphalt with concrete and concrete with asphalt, especially on overpasses. Only Bronx Expressway was comparable. I guess if they would try to do everything to last it will create serious unemployment issue.
If I would convert my car to electric or have alternative energy source I see no need for anyone (whom I don't trust) to know about. Same rule applies to any aspect of my personal life.


V

Yes,you got it. It's all about "fictional" jobs.Sorry, I couldn't find good word.
Today is a good thing to employ a lot of people to work on the same issue over and over again instead of fixing it permanently. That's why old washing machine has worked 30 years but new one is broken after 2.
We are wasting resources.Why ?