How to turn plastic waste into diesel fuel cheaply

[d2006s]

JBII GLOBAL/Converting Waste Plastic to Oil

Converting Waste Plastic to Fuel - Plastic2Oil

and they are publically traded and currently at .71 cents.

the stock ran up to $7.70 in Dec. 2009 and now we wait for the announcement of the first fuel sales.

FYI

[dutchdivco]

Differentiating plastic types

Admittedly, I haven't called around in my area, to see what type of shredded plastics are available.Since some seem to be having trouble identifying the right plastic, I was wondering.There is a universal (?) system in place already.Don't even know what its called; a triangle with rounded corners, with a symbol in the center.Designates a recyclable plastic.Different symbols for different plastics. So, I was wondering if there is a symbol for the kind of plastic that is 'most desirable' for this project.i.e. the one that doesn't produce the thick glycerine? That might make it easier to communicate to a plastic source just exactly what kind of plastic I'm looking for? Just a thought,...Jim

[Savvypro]

Admittedly, I haven't called around in my area, to see what type of shredded plastics are available.Since some seem to be having trouble identifying the right plastic, I was wondering.There is a universal (?) system in place already.Don't even know what its called; a triangle with rounded corners, with a symbol in the center.Designates a recyclable plastic.Different symbols for different plastics. So, I was wondering if there is a symbol for the kind of plastic that is 'most desirable' for this project.i.e. the one that doesn't produce the thick glycerine? That might make it easier to communicate to a plastic source just exactly what kind of plastic I'm looking for? Just a thought,...Jim

Resin identification codes (see: Resin identification code - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)


Based on the info provided by Jetijs in the first post of this thread:

Polyethylene outputs paraffin type fuels - the resin identification codes to look for is:

1 (PETE or PET - Polyethylene terephthalate) <- This may not be usable (has oxygen in the chains), can someone with more knowledge about the process confirm
2 (HDPE - High-density polyethylene)
4 (LDPE - Low density polyethylene)

In another post, it was stated that HDPE and LDPE could be used. But I'm not sure about Polyethylene terephthalate.

Polypropylene outputs liquid fuel (Diesel, Petrol etc - but no paraffin) - the resin identification codes to look for is:

5 (PP - Polypropylene)

The attached image is a screen capture of the table (showing the codes) on the wikipedia page I linked to above.

[dutchdivco]

Thinking about a square or rectangular door,....

Wondering how one would go about making one? Maybe 2 strips of steel, about 2" wide, milled or cast so that, in cross section, they would form the angled lip. Could be mitred and welded to make 2 frames; one to weld to the tank, one to the door.Boltholes, every 2 inches in one piece, would line up with tapped, (threaded) bolt holes in other piece. That way, you could bolt 2 strips together, THEN miter cut 4 'sides'.(When you unbolt, you have 8 pieces, that weld up into 2 frames, that fit each other and bolt together.Weld up 1 frame. Then, bolt the 4 pieces of the other frame to it, and weld them together. Then unbolt the 2, weld 1 to the tank, and the other to a square or rectangular piece of steel, to make the door.
If only someone else had encountered this challenge before, and come up with strip material like this!Maybe for making wood stoves, or something?
Jim

[unhippy]

Hi Jetis....i just stumbled onto this forum thread....very cool!!!

hey Jetis when you run cracked polyethylene through the reactor for the second time to try to recrack the paraffin/waxy semisolid, you said that you get about half the amount of liquid become diesel...what happens to the half that doesn't turn to diesel...does it return to a wax form as the liquid out of the reactor cools to below 30C and just need to be skimmed off?....

or is there some other thing that needs done to separate the wax residue from the diesel that i have missed reading

i'm interested in having a go at building a test rig to have a go at this myself but have to be able to run it on HDPE and LDPE because its the easiest plastic waste to get hold of here....polypropylene isn't collected for recycling here and getting enough to make any realistic amount of fuel would be a real PITA

Cheers

[Jetijs]

Resin identification codes (see: Resin identification code - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)


Based on the info provided by Jetijs in the first post of this thread:

Polyethylene outputs paraffin type fuels - the resin identification codes to look for is:

1 (PETE or PET - Polyethylene terephthalate) <- This may not be usable (has oxygen in the chains), can someone with more knowledge about the process confirm
2 (HDPE - High-density polyethylene)
4 (LDPE - Low density polyethylene)

In another post, it was stated that HDPE and LDPE could be used. But I'm not sure about Polyethylene terephthalate.

Polypropylene outputs liquid fuel (Diesel, Petrol etc - but no paraffin) - the resin identification codes to look for is:

5 (PP - Polypropylene)

The attached image is a screen capture of the table (showing the codes) on the wikipedia page I linked to above.

Hi Thank you for this info. As far as I know numbers 2, 4 and 5 work just fine, number 6 should also work fine.

Wondering how one would go about making one? Maybe 2 strips of steel, about 2" wide, milled or cast so that, in cross section, they would form the angled lip. Could be mitred and welded to make 2 frames; one to weld to the tank, one to the door.Boltholes, every 2 inches in one piece, would line up with tapped, (threaded) bolt holes in other piece. That way, you could bolt 2 strips together, THEN miter cut 4 'sides'.(When you unbolt, you have 8 pieces, that weld up into 2 frames, that fit each other and bolt together.Weld up 1 frame. Then, bolt the 4 pieces of the other frame to it, and weld them together. Then unbolt the 2, weld 1 to the tank, and the other to a square or rectangular piece of steel, to make the door.
If only someone else had encountered this challenge before, and come up with strip material like this!Maybe for making wood stoves, or something?
Jim

I don't know about that, it needs to be tested.

Hi Jetis....i just stumbled onto this forum thread....very cool!!!

hey Jetis when you run cracked polyethylene through the reactor for the second time to try to recrack the paraffin/waxy semisolid, you said that you get about half the amount of liquid become diesel...what happens to the half that doesn't turn to diesel...does it return to a wax form as the liquid out of the reactor cools to below 30C and just need to be skimmed off?....

or is there some other thing that needs done to separate the wax residue from the diesel that i have missed reading

i'm interested in having a go at building a test rig to have a go at this myself but have to be able to run it on HDPE and LDPE because its the easiest plastic waste to get hold of here....polypropylene isn't collected for recycling here and getting enough to make any realistic amount of fuel would be a real PITA

Cheers

Hi, we usually pour off the fuel as the reactor is running, the fuel is hot at this time and if there is wax in it, it is dissolved. But as soon as the poured off liquid fuel cools down, you can see some wax forming. The wax can then be easily separated from the fuel using a coarse filter. There are methods on how to elliminate the wax from forming, but I don't know anything more about that.

[wrtner]

Converting Waste Plastic to Fuel - Plastic2Oil

and they are publically traded and currently at .71 cents.

the stock ran up to $7.70 in Dec. 2009 and now we wait for the announcement of the first fuel sales.

FYI

I can't find them.
On what stock exchange are they being quoted?

[wrtner]

Am I right that most domestic electric ovens go up to 500 deg F but
no higher. If a higher voltage were put in, with some risks all round
(the electonics would need to be separated from this voltage) would
this be cheap way, starting with a cheap secondhand oven?

Could we not use one such cooker, and arrange a pipe out of the
back to take vapour to a condenser?

[Savvypro]

I really like this idea, my hats of to you Jetijs.

First one can store the raw material without too much concern for safety, compared to storing liquid fuels. If I had the space I’d buy a couple of old 20ft shipping containers and just jam pack them till I’d have trouble closing the doors. Should keep one going for a while, without worrying about the cost at the pump.

Secondly, what one produces could be said to be almost pure fuels without any of the additives that the oil companies add - some which prevent the use of high mils per gallon tech.

An addon project would be to try putting together an engine which could utilise this unadulterated fuel to its full potential. An engine that could do 200 miles to the gallon (be it US gallons (≈ 3.79 L) or UK ones (4.55 L)), would really make the container store go a long way.

I wonder how much electricity one could generate on a generator (the engine turned into a generator), that efficient. Selling the unused power to the grid could make the whole project self funding.

It would be a good project for me when I setup my machine shop, to learn how to use the equipment (I’m looking at buying a lathe, mill and few other machines - if anyone has any gear/equipment recommendations - let me know).

[kcarring]

I would imagine a high quality used kiln would work for this. If found broken, and cheap, you might mod it and repair to your needs and have 90% of what you need, affordably. Kilns get very hot. Way hotter than needed.

Pottersweb.net

[Gdez]

Do you think you could just pour concrete in around the chamber as an insulator?

[dutchdivco]

Hi, we usually pour off the fuel as the reactor is running, the fuel is hot at this time and if there is wax in it, it is dissolved. But as soon as the poured off liquid fuel cools down, you can see some wax forming. The wax can then be easily separated from the fuel using a coarse filter. There are methods on how to elliminate the wax from forming, but I don't know anything more about that.[/QUOTE]
Heres a link to a way to filter and dewater WVO, (waste veg. oil). Don't know if this would be relevent/adaptable to RPO (Recycled Plastic Oil?) but might.

Tried to find a link to a description of a cold process way to seperate the parrafin/glycerine. I think the guy who described it was named john Galt.

You have a barrel, with a smaller (say 10gal. ) bucket above it.There is a pipe, that acts like a drain for the bucket, and runs almost to the bottom of the barrel.You pour the oil thru a filter, (Denim jeans leg, sewed shut) and into the bucket, introducing it slowly.The oil enters the barrel near the bottom. The heavy stuff stays there, the lighter oil rises to the surface. About 2" below the top of the barrel, there is a pipe running out from the side and down to a lower tank.This way the 'light' oil is 'drained off', as you add more material at the 'other end' (10 gal. bucket). Its said to be a 'cold' system, only because the oil doesn't have to be heated, either before pouring it in, or during the process.jim

[wrtner]

It seems to me that there are two processes which might
be better served with two machines.

1. a heater to heat plastic to 400 deg C for 4 hours, presumably
rendering it to a dark heavy liquid.

2. heat this liquid to a different preferred temperature to distil
off the diesel and give a useful gas as well.

It might be easier to separate the functions since they are
fundamentally different

[dutchdivco]

Respectfully disagree

Actually, there is another way to look at it; What we are doing is heating solid material, (shredded plastic) in an oxygen depleted environment, to where it not only melts, but changes from a solid, to a gaseous material.This gaseous material is then run through a condenser, to cool it, which causes some liquids, ( a mixture of 'diesel fuel' and 'gasoline') to precipitate out.i.e. turn into a liquid.There is still SOME gaseous material left, after cooling, (similar to a propane/butane).
Next step; We reheat the liquid precipitate to a lower temp, so that the 'lighter fractions' i.e. "gasoline" once again vaporise, and this vapor is then run through a condenser, so it precipitates into a liquid, and has been seperated from the 'Diesel".
Third step, we run the remaining vapor through a "bubbler", which causes any remaining "Gasoline" type fractions to pricipitate into a liquid, and then seperate the "gasoline" from the water.
And, finally, we use or safely dispose of the remaining Butane/Propane type flamable gas.
Throughout the various steps, we are dealing with a heat, producing a gaseous material, which must be collected and piped using an "airtight" system (which is why an old oven might not be a good place to start, unless, like Jetsys system, you place an air tight reactor INSIDE the oven, and simply use the oven in lieu of the 'kiln' he and his team built.)
Anyway, you could do it as completely seperate processes, or design a system that uses the 'waste heat' from the first step, as a heat source for the second step. Or, using the same heat source for all steps requiring heat.Either use less insulation for a lower temp, or route less of the heat to reactor requiring lower temp. Its all a matter of how you design the system. It seems to me like jetsys system was an attempt to do it as an integrated system, and simply needs to be improved upon.There's no reason it can't be done as an integrated system, just needs tighter controls on the temperatures, and a little tweaking. Jim

[wrtner]

That is a phenomenally useful post, Dutchdivco.

What are we left with? A tar like substance?