Lockridge Device - Peter Lindemann

[john_g]

The circuit looks very good. It could also be used with an unmodified motor to
collect the off pulse generating action of the motor into the small cap. This
would work with mbrown's approach.

George

George

Thanks for the comments, I need to buy some beefier caps before trying it out. How would you wire it to collect the off pulse in an unmodified motor?

Regards

John

[mbrownn]

Hi

I was after some feedback for the attached circuit, which I have had floating in my mind for a while, that may be in the same vein as the above. The idea is to use a large capacitor as an energy store, fed by a generator coil. The field windings are in series with a small cap. The small cap is charged when the motor fires, the "filling" current powering the coils (filling the cap). The small cap is then discharged through an inductor / transformer to return the energy back to larger cap. Switching via cam operated switches.

Any comments either way welcome about this.

Regards
John

You are thinking on the right lines, how to get more use out of the energy that is lost when it has passed through a motor. This is very relavent to a self running motor/generator.

The problem is in the fact that this small capacitor becomes an opposing voltage as it charges, reducing current in the motor and therefore power. If the capacitor was charged the other way round before the pulse, the increased voltage would result in more current and therefore a gain but how do we recharge that capacitor without drawing more power from the source?

With the recovery circuit you have to discharge that capacitor, you can regain most of the loss so it almosts cancels itself out. If this recovery was applied to a battery some gains could be made such as in a Bedini circuit, but unfortunately this type of gain requires time that we do not have between pulses.

I have looked at several similar circuits but so far all of them have resulted in a net loss in motor power and not a gain.

I have put your circuit in a simulator here with another variant Circuit Simulator Applet

Try playing around with things. The power in the motor is irrelevent as it is the current that produces motor power, so the goal is to reduce input power and increase motor current.

[mbrownn]

Here is a variant I have been playing with Circuit Simulator Applet

[FRC]

George

Thanks for the comments, I need to buy some beefier caps before trying it out. How would you wire it to collect the off pulse in an unmodified motor?

Regards

John

During the off pulse the motor would have to be disconnected from its power source ( by way of the cam or commutator) and reconnect to diodes going to the cap. Then reconnect to the power source in the pulse mode. the cycle would repeat continuously. It would need the correct timing and tuning. I think Mr. Brown is more the expert here than I am and could better answer this than me.


George

[mbrownn]

Hi FRC, I"m not ignoring you and your comments are valid. You are right he is not collecting the inductive kickback of the motor and you do have to disconnect from the source on at least 1 terminal to do so. I like the bipolar switching because not only did the original Lockrige have that but it allows you to place the inductive kickback in other parts of the circuit.

[john_g]

Thanks for simulation

mbrownn

Many thanks for doing the circuit and comments. I was attempting to find a way of having a measured charge to drive the motor, which could be changed as the motor was up to speed. Back to the drawing board. The inductive kickback from the coil could be collected by having an additional winding with the field coil and sent to the transformer ?

This may be of interest, from a 1920s radio book talking about rotary converters and more amps out than in, right hand page:

http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/3507099/book-scan1-jpg-february-1-2012-11-21-am-711k?da=y

Regards

John

[mbrownn]

You could get a precise amount of energy in each pulse this way but I think the disadvantages outway any advantage you might have.

When it comes to using the BEMF there are several ways to do it, normally it is just a diode across the motor allowing current to flow from the current out wire to the current in wire as in normal PWM circuits, then there is the Bedini style and the transformer method as you say and finally my method that requires bipolar switching and 2 diodes.

The transformer method has the advantage that it is totally isolated from the input and you can place this BEMF anywhere you want as well as stepping it up or down. My method is not quite as versatile because there is no step up or step down option but you can place the current in many more places than you can with the simple Bedini circuit. By the way I am not claiming to have invented it, just that I haven't seen that method used before and I did think of it myself although someone must have used it before.

Thanks for the link, the book is exactly right. when you take the efficiencies into account.

[Armagdn03]

No I am not , can you provide a link? The truth is I know nothing about inductors or how they are supposed to work, I just know that they can do very interesting things.

The next two paragraphs have big implications and it is what I have been looking for.

The reason I ask for a schematic is I want to clarify exactly the following.

Is there a capacitor on the input coil, if so how is it connected, series or parallel?

Is there a capacitor on the bifilar coil or is it shorted or open circuit?

Is the bifilar coil series or bucking?

Are the windings all in the same direction and does it matter if they are clockwise or anticlockwise?

If it is run at the resonant point of the secondary and the peak to peak resonance magnitude is provided by impedance, it makes sense how the impedance matching is done. I think you said that the output is AC and you rectify this with a diode, is the diode required to help maintain the gain in the secondary or can the output be fed directly to a universal motor which can run on AC or DC and can you use a bridge rectifier?

What if the motor had the same resonant frequency as the secondary?

No there is no capacitor on the input coil, but it is both inductively and capacitively connected to the secondary, this is just the nature of the arrangement. By being within the same space they are "connected" primarily inductively.

The reason that there is no capacitor is that the input coil does not need to be in resonance with the secondary. When the secondary is hit with its resonant frequency through the primary, the primary will see a HUGE impedance, and it will transfer its energy in the best possible way. You could think of the primary and the secondary as ONE coil, though they have no direct electrical connection, they are inductively coupled. When the secondary goes into resonance, the coils act as one.

The bifilar coil is in series, as Tesla would have wound it.

There is no difference in direction of winding. Both share the same magnetic dipole.

The output is AC and rectified, only because the load (motor) is a DC motor. If you can directly use the AC then by all means do so! If you had a universal motor which could take advantage of this, you would need to have the secondary, pick up coil and motor all resonate as one. Imagine a guitar, or musical instrument. Whenever you add something physically to it, you change it, and its resonant frequency. The instrument, and whatever you have on it all act as ONE. Therefore you need everything matched, this is very tricky many times. You could have each individual component matched, put it all together, and notice.....WHOA together they have a different resonance!

Hope this helps! Do not make it too complicated, build it for yourself. Very simplle

Have about 20 turns primary, secondary of arbitrary size, and pick up coil with taps on it (to tune). Throw in a rectifier setup and play, you will learn so damn much. Leave it this simple.

[FRC]

Armagdn03

You mention if using an AC motor, then the motor is also in resonance. With
the roto verter the motor and generator must be in resonance. Is it possible
to get a DC motor and DC generator in resonance also ? I hope I do not
sound too stupid for asking this.

George

[mbrownn]

No there is no capacitor on the input coil, but it is both inductively and capacitively connected to the secondary, this is just the nature of the arrangement. By being within the same space they are "connected" primarily inductively.

The reason that there is no capacitor is that the input coil does not need to be in resonance with the secondary. When the secondary is hit with its resonant frequency through the primary, the primary will see a HUGE impedance, and it will transfer its energy in the best possible way. You could think of the primary and the secondary as ONE coil, though they have no direct electrical connection, they are inductively coupled. When the secondary goes into resonance, the coils act as one.

The bifilar coil is in series, as Tesla would have wound it.

There is no difference in direction of winding. Both share the same magnetic dipole.

The output is AC and rectified, only because the load (motor) is a DC motor. If you can directly use the AC then by all means do so! If you had a universal motor which could take advantage of this, you would need to have the secondary, pick up coil and motor all resonate as one. Imagine a guitar, or musical instrument. Whenever you add something physically to it, you change it, and its resonant frequency. The instrument, and whatever you have on it all act as ONE. Therefore you need everything matched, this is very tricky many times. You could have each individual component matched, put it all together, and notice.....WHOA together they have a different resonance!

Hope this helps! Do not make it too complicated, build it for yourself. Very simplle

Have about 20 turns primary, secondary of arbitrary size, and pick up coil with taps on it (to tune). Throw in a rectifier setup and play, you will learn so damn much. Leave it this simple.

Thanks for the reply, the reason I asked about the capacitor is because I haven't figured out exactly how it is used on the Lockridge device and there are a number of possibilities.

When we pulse the primary we should be able to collect the inductive kickback and feed it to the source reducing the input and this may even increase the amount of energy in the secondary if I am right. This is where the first gain is, reduced input and possible gain due to the current in the inductive kickback of the primary. This would require that the primary has to be at a harmonic of the secondary.

If our universal motor is run on pulsed DC from the third coil and it is of the same resonant frequency, then the inductive kickback will add to sustain the current in the motor giving another gain. Two gains for the cost of one pulse or three times the current assuming no losses. I don't know but it may be possible to run the universal motor at the resonant frequency of the coils and maybe there will be a gain there, I don't know, but now you can see why I asked the question.

It does seem that this may be the coil we are looking for, every time I say that it reminds me of starwars "these are not the droids you are looking for" hehe.

I can't thank you enough for your input here

[mbrownn]

You mention if using an AC motor, then the motor is also in resonance. With
the roto verter the motor and generator must be in resonance. Is it possible
to get a DC motor and DC generator in resonance also ? I hope I do not
sound too stupid for asking this.

George

I haven't given too much thought to the generation side of the device but as they were inside the same frame on the Lockridge device this may be very relevant.

[mbrownn]

Garrypm, on your first tests of pulsing a motor you should have seen how my diode arrangement reduces the input. The power of the motor is higher than when it is pulsed with no recovery but lower than when it is pulsed with a diode across the motor. I think this is the arrangement to pulse the primary of the trifilar coil.

I hope you are taking in the implications of Armagdn03's post.

I think the primary coil needs to have a resonant frequency significantly higher than the secondary although my statement about it being at a harmonic may be incorrect as my head is buzzing with thoughts at the moment. The third coil needs to be tunable so that we can find the resonant frequency of the motor coils. I don't know if the inductive kickback of the motor would be better fed back to the source capacitor or just across the motor like in PWM.

I think we are close but the hard part will be tuning everything

I need to find a signal generator.

[Armagdn03]

You mention if using an AC motor, then the motor is also in resonance. With
the roto verter the motor and generator must be in resonance. Is it possible
to get a DC motor and DC generator in resonance also ? I hope I do not
sound too stupid for asking this.

George

The short answer is no. If you consider general oscillation, it is a rotation around a zero point, where polarity reverses every half cycle. DC motors require constant polarity in one direction, if it reverses, the coils pull then push against the magnet, causing a zero net force in one direction.

Now a little food for thought....How can you have a one way tank circuit? One in which the polarity of the capacitor never reverses?

[Armagdn03]

Thanks for the reply, the reason I asked about the capacitor is because I haven't figured out exactly how it is used on the Lockridge device and there are a number of possibilities.

When we pulse the primary we should be able to collect the inductive kickback and feed it to the source reducing the input and this may even increase the amount of energy in the secondary if I am right. This is where the first gain is, reduced input and possible gain due to the current in the inductive kickback of the primary. This would require that the primary has to be at a harmonic of the secondary.

If our universal motor is run on pulsed DC from the third coil and it is of the same resonant frequency, then the inductive kickback will add to sustain the current in the motor giving another gain. Two gains for the cost of one pulse or three times the current assuming no losses. I don't know but it may be possible to run the universal motor at the resonant frequency of the coils and maybe there will be a gain there, I don't know, but now you can see why I asked the question.

It does seem that this may be the coil we are looking for, every time I say that it reminds me of starwars "these are not the droids you are looking for" hehe.

I can't thank you enough for your input here

The basic concept of this motor as I understand it is this.....

Run the motor at a low speed high torque point. This allows the motor to have minimal BEMF from the generator portion of the motor. This means that the pulses fed to the stator coils can be returned in the form of BEMF to be fed to a capacitor for the next pulse.

Note there are two BEMF's acting here. One refers to the counter EMF from the generator portion of the motor. The other is the collapsing magnetic field created in the stator from our pulses.

Does anybody have the graphs from the original lecture that Dr. Lindemann gave? This would greatly help me explain things.

This is a big balancing act in my opinion. The faster our motor spins, the more BEMF from the rotation we have and the less torque and greater speed we have. The slower our motor spins, and the less BEMF from the generator action happens, and we have greater torque and less speed. The Work done by the motor is greatest somewhere in between.

The size of the capacitor will determine the voltage across it after it collects the collapsed magnetic stator field. Large capacitor equates to smaller voltage across. Small capacitor equates to higher voltage across. Both will contain the same energy, but in different forms. We are trading capacity for voltage. Therefore, we want to choose a cap which is placing the voltage somewhat above the input pulse voltage.

This motor is going to have an optimal speed, an optimal capacitor size based on input voltage, stator inductance etc.

I do not think you will do well with an off the shelf universal motor. I would suggest going back and watching Lindemann's presentation once again. I do not have it, but was at the conference and have a very good memory.

This will have limitations also, you are not going to be able to load down this motor like a standard motor, a change in speed ruins everything! it will have a sweet spot.

[mbrownn]

The short answer is no. If you consider general oscillation, it is a rotation around a zero point, where polarity reverses every half cycle. DC motors require constant polarity in one direction, if it reverses, the coils pull then push against the magnet, causing a zero net force in one direction.

Now a little food for thought....How can you have a one way tank circuit? One in which the polarity of the capacitor never reverses?

I have done exactly that. Circuit Simulator Applet