Lockridge Device - Peter Lindemann

[john_g]

The good thing about inductive kickback is the motoring action it gives while ever it is flowing, almost doubling the motor power in some cases as in PWM circuits. Catching it is simple, a diode on the output side of the coil and a capacitor to store it Bedini style. Catching it and using it in the motor is slightly more complex.

You didn,t post a circuit so I cant tell you where to put it in your device but this is a simple way of doing it however you do need bipolar switching on your coil. Circuit Simulator Applet

The principal here is to subtract the recovered energy from the input requirement so if your motor requires an input of 100w and you can recover 50w you now only need the recovered energy plus 50w from the source for the next pulse.

If your motor was 70% efficient, you may get close up to 140% using PWM but now feeding the 50% recovered energy back to the input we have in effect 140w output for a 50w input.

Lets do the maths,

input to motor 100w
claimed Motor efficiency 70%
recovery 70% of 70% of 100w = 49w
Motor output 70w + 49w = 119
Capacitor efficiency on recovery 80% thus power available for supply = 39.2w
supply from battery 100-39.2 = 60.8w

COP 119/60.8 = 1.95

In truth, motors quoted at 70% efficiency usually is already under PWM and so their real efficiency is much less

input to motor 100w
real Motor efficiency 50%
recovery 50% of 50% of 100w = 25w
Motor output 50w + 25w = 75w
Capacitor efficiency on recovery 80% thus power available for supply = 20w (on a real test I got 17w from a 49% efficiency motor)
supply from battery 100-20 = 80w

COP 75/80 = 0.9375

Once we have a motor that is truly 70% efficient we can have a self runner with a very high efficiency generator on this circuit.

Hi Mbrownn

I noticed in Teslas patent 464666 that he used over the field coils an overwinding of fine wire, connected to a secondary field coil, again of fine wire, this using the inductive spike to further drive the rotor. Would this sort of arrangement increase the efficiency as you indicated above? Twice the turn for 1 input.

Regards

John

[mbrownn]

No, its a stock series wound 12 volt delco generator armature. It has 2 feild poles. I have added a starter feild coil in place of one of the generator feild coils. This brings up the rpm to a higher rate. But then i dont have the voltage. So going to change that back to the original generator coil. To see where my voltage is at. Then go from there. What rpm do you think we would need.

Ahh so effectively it is a Universal motor with a standard winding. The approach is different and is what my earlier posts are about.There will be little power in the brushed recovery when compared to the input.

This is how I originally thought the circuit would work Circuit Simulator Applet

Yes we do get an overunity in energy in the motor when compared to the input but the problem is the gain is in volts and a motor works on amps. the result was a motor that had low efficiency and produced a lot of heat. It could work if the rotor and stator was completely rewound with many more turns but the same resistance but of course we could not fit that in the frame.

Here you can see some of the experimental circuits I need to try with an impedance matching trifilar coil. this will convert voltage gain into the correct volts and amps for the motor but where do I tap the inductive kickback? ( I have placed diodes in the possible locations and not all will be used) the sim won't run it easily so only real testing will do and this takes time and money.

I don't have all the answers yet but I am working on it so while I am not posting too much about it you can see what I am up to.

This is the coil of armagdn03

Circuit Simulator Applet

If you want to give it a go I suggest two microwave oven transformers connected back to back as they can handle the power but be very careful we are talking lethal power here.

The frequency of the switching needs to be the resonant frequency of the combined secondary windings to get the voltage gain we are looking for.

[mbrownn]

Good morning
Atually both would be nice but but i think catching the inductive kickback would be the best.
Thanks
Bizzy

The good thing about inductive kickback is the motoring action it gives while ever it is flowing, almost doubling the motor power in some cases as in PWM circuits. Catching it is simple, a diode on the output side of the coil and a capacitor to store it Bedini style. Catching it and using it in the motor is slightly more complex.

You didn,t post a circuit so I cant tell you where to put it in your device but this is a simple way of doing it however you do need bipolar switching on your coil. Circuit Simulator Applet

The principal here is to subtract the recovered energy from the input requirement so if your motor requires an input of 100w and you can recover 50w you now only need the recovered energy plus 50w from the source for the next pulse.

If your motor was 70% efficient, you may get close up to 140% using PWM but now feeding the 50% recovered energy back to the input we have in effect 140w output for a 50w input.

Lets do the maths,

input to motor 100w
claimed Motor efficiency 70%
recovery 70% of 70% of 100w = 49w
Motor output 70w + 49w = 119
Capacitor efficiency on recovery 80% thus power available for supply = 39.2w
supply from battery 100-39.2 = 60.8w

COP 119/60.8 = 1.95

In truth, motors quoted at 70% efficiency usually is already under PWM and so their real efficiency is much less

input to motor 100w
real Motor efficiency 50%
recovery 50% of 50% of 100w = 25w
Motor output 50w + 25w = 75w
Capacitor efficiency on recovery 80% thus power available for supply = 20w (on a real test I got 17w from a 49% efficiency motor)
supply from battery 100-20 = 80w

COP 75/80 = 0.9375

Once we have a motor that is truly 70% efficient we can have a self runner with a very high efficiency generator on this circuit.

[Hiwater]

Is your generator star wound? How many poles does it have? I ask so that I can understand what you need to do with the circuit.


The ratio of turns could be anywhere between 2.5 and 5 to one but depending upon how we use the trifilar coil it could be different.

There may be a gain in the trifilar coil depending upon how it is used but at this stage I am not certain which configuration it has and where it is placed because I need to do testing.

No, its a stock series wound 12 volt delco generator armature. It has 2 feild poles. I have added a starter feild coil in place of one of the generator feild coils. This brings up the rpm to a higher rate. But then i dont have the voltage. So going to change that back to the original generator coil. To see where my voltage is at. Then go from there. What rpm do you think we would need.

[Bizzy]

I just need to clarify something here, Is it the Inductive kickback you are trying to catch or the generated forward emf that follows it?

A circuit would help

Good morning
Atually both would be nice but but i think catching the inductive kickback would be the best.
Thanks
Bizzy

[mbrownn]

Good morning everyone,
I follow this thread as much as I can and get quite a bit of infomration from it...thanks
As you may or may not know I am actively working on a Watson machine and am drawing to adding a coil to cath emf when when switch is opened.
This coil would be in series with one terminal of the swicth and the positive terminal of the battery.
My question is would you recommend a bi filiar coil or a simple mono directional coil?
Also should there be an iron core or air?
Thanks
Bizzy

I just need to clarify something here, Is it the Inductive kickback you are trying to catch or the generated forward emf that follows it?

A circuit would help

[mbrownn]

Mbrownn, I tried yestyerday using one extra positive brush on the commutatorwith a few bulbs as a load. It does remove just about all the armature reaction at about 3000 rpms. This was dome on a stock GM generator, with out any modifications.

As for a motorising side of the generator this can be easily done with a couple quick modifications. I have done this using other starter coils from another old starter. I havent done the modification with the stosk feild coils to see how they would function. Will try to do this sometime today. (NEW IDEAS CREATE NEW ENTHUSIAM)
The ratio of turns is what ever we want to make just so they will balance.The star wound armature, would have three balance coils for the armature. Thus the triffilar coil. working with alternators these balance coils bring the input down and out put up.
Removing the armature windings will be a challenge, can be done though.

Is your generator star wound? How many poles does it have? I ask so that I can understand what you need to do with the circuit.


The ratio of turns could be anywhere between 2.5 and 5 to one but depending upon how we use the trifilar coil it could be different.

There may be a gain in the trifilar coil depending upon how it is used but at this stage I am not certain which configuration it has and where it is placed because I need to do testing.

[FRC]

Nice to see you posting here. Sorry I can not answer your questions. I am sure
someone here probably can. I would also like to know what would be the best
answers for your coil questions.

George

[Bizzy]

Coils

Good morning everyone,
I follow this thread as much as I can and get quite a bit of infomration from it...thanks
As you may or may not know I am actively working on a Watson machine and am drawing to adding a coil to cath emf when when switch is opened.
This coil would be in series with one terminal of the swicth and the positive terminal of the battery.
My question is would you recommend a bi filiar coil or a simple mono directional coil?
Also should there be an iron core or air?
Thanks
Bizzy

[Hiwater]

Mbrownn, I tried yestyerday using one extra positive brush on the commutatorwith a few bulbs as a load. It does remove just about all the armature reaction at about 3000 rpms. This was dome on a stock GM generator, with out any modifications.

As for a motorising side of the generator this can be easily done with a couple quick modifications. I have done this using other starter coils from another old starter. I havent done the modification with the stosk feild coils to see how they would function. Will try to do this sometime today. (NEW IDEAS CREATE NEW ENTHUSIAM)
The ratio of turns is what ever we want to make just so they will balance.The star wound armature, would have three balance coils for the armature. Thus the triffilar coil. working with alternators these balance coils bring the input down and out put up.
Removing the armature windings will be a challenge, can be done though.

[erfinder]

This is a circuit I would like to try if I could get hold of a Delco Remy generator with a star wound rotor.

On the sim we appear to be at a COP of >1 although there are no friction and iron losses. It is based around the specs of a 12v motor, remember power in the motor does not lead to torque, it is current, so this motor consumes 12w per amp in the coils at 12v and its output will be in proportion with the current. The power consumption is approximately 28w with a supply of 26 watts The relay setup is to try and simulate what a commutator would do but in reality it is the coil with the highest current flow that would switch off and dump back to the source not the lowest as in this sim, this would another gain.

The lowest transformer is just to simulate the losses in the trifilar coil and actually does not give any gain in this sim. Note how we have in effect three transformers making up the motor, the one with the relays represents the rotor and the two step up transformers are the field coils. I believer this is close to the original setup but don't have a unit to experiment on, If anyone has such a unit I will work with them to develop this.

The load felt by the motor is also based on ampere turns this motor would be at stall condition so a gain from the trifilar or somewhere else is needed. In reality the inductance and reactance would increase in the motor under load potentially giving a gain in recovery as the rotor and field coils are in oposition.

Circuit Simulator Applet

Please give me your thoughts.

garrypm, have you had chance to test the coil and recovery setup yet?

Do you have skype?

[mbrownn]

Origional Lockridge type device.

This is a circuit I would like to try if I could get hold of a Delco Remy generator with a star wound rotor.

On the sim we appear to be at a COP of >1 although there are no friction and iron losses. It is based around the specs of a 12v motor, remember power in the motor does not lead to torque, it is current, so this motor consumes 12w per amp in the coils at 12v and its output will be in proportion with the current. The power consumption is approximately 28w with a supply of 26 watts The relay setup is to try and simulate what a commutator would do but in reality it is the coil with the highest current flow that would switch off and dump back to the source not the lowest as in this sim, this would another gain.

The lowest transformer is just to simulate the losses in the trifilar coil and actually does not give any gain in this sim. Note how we have in effect three transformers making up the motor, the one with the relays represents the rotor and the two step up transformers are the field coils. I believer this is close to the original setup but don't have a unit to experiment on, If anyone has such a unit I will work with them to develop this.

The load felt by the motor is also based on ampere turns this motor would be at stall condition so a gain from the trifilar or somewhere else is needed. In reality the inductance and reactance would increase in the motor under load potentially giving a gain in recovery as the rotor and field coils are in oposition.

Circuit Simulator Applet

Please give me your thoughts.

garrypm, have you had chance to test the coil and recovery setup yet?

[FRC]

Turion

I tried the first part of your procedure with two good batteries and unmodified
12v motor. I actually tried two bad batteries. As you said the voltage on the bad battery climbed way up at first. The motor did not ever run. Trying with
the second bad battery I tried using a second smaller 12v motor as a load on the bad battery, and was surprised to see it running quite well even though
the bad battery only showed 9v on the meter at this time. The bigger 12v
motor did not run this time either. I checked the voltages on the good batteries
after and they had barely dropped. As mbrown suggested, I think you have a kind of Tesla switch setup with this configuration. Even though not successful
the results are still interesting. Will try to do further experimentation and see what happens.

George

[mbrownn]

Mbrownn. On a regular Gm generator. The standard brushes are already in the advanced part of the commutator for generation. Seems to me that the original brushes would have to be moved back to make it motorise first. then put our extra set of brushes for the gen side or just have two wide primary brushes contacting two segments of the commutator for the motor and gen action. Another way would be to have just two primary brushes on one wide commutator bar utilising both the motor and gen action.

motorising these generators and connecting one 12 volt bulb to the gen to make it glow will decrease the rpm considerably. Also these generators need to be run in a clock wise manner for them to generate. Then the residual magnetisim will work for us when the power is removed to let them coast. This allows the generator side to kick in, to be used in the charge cycle. But on the charge cycle armature reaction comes in to play defeating our main purpose that is to keep the armature moving ahead.

Excellent, you are thinking about how it really works.

Yes we would have to move one pair of brushes from the optimum generation position to the optimum motor position. the second brushes need to be in the position to collect the inductive spike and can also generate after the collapse has ended. During the coasting period generation will occur but not only because of residual magnetism, remember we have the field coils and trifilar coil which I haven't got into yet.

The generator output has to be less than the power in the motor but up to half that power, less losses, is recycled in the form of inductive kickback. Yes the generation is the load but at the moment we are talking about the rotor, the source of the motor function and the energizer for the generator field coils. This power can also be stored in a capacitor in the source line, If there were no losses it would be 3 to 1 in the rotor.

I cant simulate the commutator accurately but this sim should give you the Idea of the three brush setup for the rotor. To simulate the four brush setup we need another contact on the relay. Circuit Simulator Applet

mbrownn. with a 4 brush system, do you think that at least two of the brushes would remove the armature reaction. It may very well be that this will come in to play here. havent got that far yet, to check it out.

By motorising these generators and continually adding bulbs to the charging circuit the generator will continue to decrease in rpm untill it wants to turn the other way. if the generator is at a higher rpm it doesnt effect it as much with 3-4 bulbs connected.
We should be able to add bigger feild colis to get out more voltage out. Or find some on to rewind these armatures for 110 volts. This kind of summarises what i have been up to when time allows.

Yes, two brushes remove the armature reaction or it could be one brush plus a motor brush but this would mean that we have different thickness brushes.

Yes we have bigger field coils on the generator section and will have to limit the load so that we do not overcome the motor action, it's a balancing act.

I don't know what the ratio of turns is, at this stage, between the motor field coils and generator field coils but remember there will be transformer action too, between the motor and generator field coils, it gets quite complex. I don't know the voltage yet either, this will have to be determined by experiment.

Remember we need the star wound rotor for this, It wont work with the modern ones. I cant get the old Remy generator here so I will have to enter the rotor winding competition at some stage Does anyone have any tips on removing the rotor windings?

I am working on this and my my variant that uses a standard motor at the same time but the truth is they are completely different machines and what works on one does not work on the other, so let me know if you need clarification on which device it is I am talking about in other posts.

[Hiwater]

mbrownn. with a 4 brush system, do you think that at least two of the brushes would remove the armature reaction. It may very well be that this will come in to play here. havent got that far yet, to check it out.

By motorising these generators and continually adding bulbs to the charging circuit the generator will continue to decrease in rpm untill it wants to turn the other way. if the generator is at a higher rpm it doesnt effect it as much with 3-4 bulbs connected.
We should be able to add bigger feild colis to get out more voltage out. Or find some on to rewind these armatures for 110 volts. This kind of summarises what i have been up to when time allows.