Solar Charging/Pulsing Circuit and Variants

[Farmhand]

Hi 7imix, It's good to hear that somebody can see from my poor explaination what I am trying to say. I don't want to take my time away from the self charger project. So I posted my idea to see if anyone thought it had merit, and maybe they would want to think on it aswell.

I have two very similar idea's in this area, this is one of them the other is not fully envisioned in my head yet, it's a bit more complicated and involves an oscillator.

I would like to try to acheive just the alternating arrangement without the switching to series to start with to gauge the improvement over a single capacitive discharge setup.

But people are free to do whatever they like with the idea, it didn't cost me anything to think it up. So I don't mind.

The hard part is making the circuit to work for me. If it can be done and a drawing posted, that would help a lot of people. Maybe.

The advantage of switching to series for discharge is obvious because a battery could be charged with a source voltage lower than the battery.

With my limited knowledge of componants and stuff and the double speak in a lot of patents it's difficult for me to know if it's allready been done.

Cheers

[7imix]

Thanks farmhand. I have a small solar panel I will use to do experiments in this area. I think the idea has real merit.

[Farmhand]

But are you charging the cap directly? Wouldn't paralleling output reduce output voltage? Would the solar output voltage still be enough to charge the cap? Or would the can had enough voltage to charge the battery?

Hi Sucahyo, at the moment if my battery is at 12 -13v my cap bank charges to 17 volts and dumps I have three 15 000uf 35 volt caps in paralell so it can dump 45 000uf from about 5 volts above the battery voltage. If I was to use 2 caps, charge them to 14 volts in paralell, then switch them to series to dump it would be dumping 15 000uf at 28 volts.

The paralell resistance is less than the resistance of one so it will charge them fairly easy and it does charge three now quite easily. when swapped to series the impedance of the caps is raised the voltage is raised and the capacitance if halved.

However I do realise that when the caps are switched to series it could cause problems for the solar output it would have nowhere to go, so the idea is to use two sets of caps so that when one set is switched to series the other set is being charged by the panels in paralell and vice-versa in an alternating arrangement.

I can't see any problem with the panels charging the caps or the caps charging the battery. The difficult part is to acheive the switching based on the voltage level of the caps and to acheive the decoupling of the charged caps from the panels before switching to series and dumping, and the decoupling of the discharged caps from the battery before recoupling to the panels for charging again.

The discharged caps need to wait untill the caps being charged are decoupled to discharge before the discharged caps are recoupled to charge, in an alternating arrangement.

It's very difficult to explain.

But basically one set of caps charges while the other discharges but before discharging the caps are switched to series.

I believe its already been done but it's patented. I will try to do it my way and make it public. I am curious why somebody with better electronic skills has not already made public a simple way to do this.

Seems to me that this method would very much improve the output of the panels.

It could be done in an alternating arrangement without the switching to series by just charging the caps to 17 volts or more which should still increase the output because when one is discharging the other charging, no time is lost, ie. the output is not interupted during discharge. However that won't work if the caps are charged to only 13 or 14 volts.

Cheers

P.S. Yes the caps are charged directly from the solar panels. No oscillator. Just caps and solar panels. For this particular setup.

If anyone has any idea's to achieve this, feel free to tell us the method. I will work it out eventually and make it public. So it might as well happen a bit quicker, I don't have unlimited time, but I will get to it sooner or later.

[sucahyo]

Sucahyo a solar panel is just restricted by more impedance I don't want restriction of free current I want as much current to flow and do work as possible i'm not paying for it. A lower impedance is what I want, it is easier for the panel to charge a lower resistance cap than a high one.

But are you charging the cap directly? Wouldn't paralleling output reduce output voltage? Would the solar output voltage still be enough to charge the cap? Or would the can had enough voltage to charge the battery?

[Farmhand]

Attachment is from Tesla patent 583953.

Cheers

[Farmhand]

Hi sucahyo and FRC,

Sucahyo a solar panel is just restricted by more impedance I don't want restriction of free current I want as much current to flow and do work as possible i'm not paying for it. A lower impedance is what I want, it is easier for the panel to charge a lower resistance cap than a high one. The efficiency out of the panel is not to be restricted, to get more power from a solar panel you would want more power to flow quicker. It's opposite to normal I don't want to restrict current flow I want to encourage it. Paralell to series is the right way. It's in one of Tesla's patents. Most people have it backwards. In my opinion. Thats why low ESR caps are better. Idealy when the caps are flipped from paralell to series they should be double the voltage of the battery.

FRC, You can see above for my reason to do this.

I haven't started to work on that yet and may not get a chance for a while. It's not easy to do paralell to series the other way is easier. But I will try. I'm still conceptualising it in my head. I don't have a lot of knowledge of componants myself, and I know how frustrating it can be working with timers.

Could take quite a few headaches to work something out. The problem is if only one cap is used, when it is decoupled the panel has nowhere to put charge so time is lost and power output is restricted. That is what is happening in my setup to a degree I think, even though the cap is not actually disconnected to discharge it still seems to be restricting the panel output. A good simple way to pulse from caps is still needed, I don't think any one has come up with a simple untimed voltage level based cap dumper yet. They are all made complicated or patented.

I'll let you know if I think of something. I would like to use transistors and mosfets.

Cheers

[FRC]

Farmhand can you elaborate ?

Ok by removing D7 and placing the SCR 2 into the negative line so switching the negative, the pulsing is much better when using the oscillator, the current is much less restricted at high current levels and at an output level of 3 amps DC without the oscillator and the SCR continually conducting.
I then switch to "pulsing mode" the current pulses excede the DC current level by .5 amp or so.

I originally switched the positive because of the difficulty getting the SCR 2 to switch off and on but it seems it is not needed for it to do that to work.
And it acually works much better this way. Originally the way the main SCR was being switched was causing some restriction somehow. But it is still not good enough. Yet.

I feel there is still some restriction and conflict in there.

And I would like the pulsed current peak to be almost double the DC current. I think I can do this by Tesla's method of charging two cap banks in paralell and dicharging them in series.

I'm very surprised a simple method to do the charge in paralell and discharge in series has not been made public. If I can do it I will most likely make it public. Or maybe I won't. Depends. If it even looks like it's OU maybe I can make some money from it. Just kidding.

Is OU even possible when using free energy to start with ?

I think I will start to only use terms like a C.O.P. rating or input energy compared to output energy.

Cheers

I have been wrestling with how to cap dump a current source, and then allow
the caps to recharge. I have trouble understanding RC circuits, 555 timer circuits, tesla switch, etc. Mechanical is the only way I can think of that is simple. What do you mean by "do the charge in paralell and discharge in series" ? Can you explain. Thanks

FRC

[sucahyo]

I'm very surprised a simple method to do the charge in paralell and discharge in series has not been made public.

I think that because most circuit consume more with lower impedance load(parallel), usually resulted in worse efficiency. So most circuit have better efficiency charging in series.

If you can tweak your circuit to at least do not change efficiency with lower impedance load, then charging in parallel and using it in series is viable.

[Farmhand]

Ok by removing D7 and placing the SCR 2 into the negative line so switching the negative, the pulsing is much better when using the oscillator, the current is much less restricted at high current levels and at an output level of 3 amps DC without the oscillator and the SCR continually conducting.
I then switch to "pulsing mode" the current pulses excede the DC current level by .5 amp or so.

I originally switched the positive because of the difficulty getting the SCR 2 to switch off and on but it seems it is not needed for it to do that to work.
And it acually works much better this way. Originally the way the main SCR was being switched was causing some restriction somehow. But it is still not good enough. Yet.

I feel there is still some restriction and conflict in there.

And I would like the pulsed current peak to be almost double the DC current. I think I can do this by Tesla's method of charging two cap banks in paralell and dicharging them in series.

I'm very surprised a simple method to do the charge in paralell and discharge in series has not been made public. If I can do it I will most likely make it public. Or maybe I won't. Depends. If it even looks like it's OU maybe I can make some money from it. Just kidding.

Is OU even possible when using free energy to start with ?

I think I will start to only use terms like a C.O.P. rating or input energy compared to output energy.

Cheers

[Farmhand]

Still Going

Hi all, I just got a new panel so I removed the two little 10 watt panels to use elsewhere, now the setup i have is 70 watts. I discovered I have a lot of heat coming from my BT151 Thyristor so I think i'll need to do something about that.

Anyway my setup is still going stong even though it's getting warm.

Here's a video of how it regulates the charged battery's voltage in pulsing mode. Sorry about the extra storm footage at the end, i'll try to remove it.

YouTube - AlternateFarmhand1's Channel

I'm trying to think of a way to get a Power Mosfet, an IGBT or a Bipolar Transitor or pair or combination to switch by the rising voltage to get the same effect or similar. However I can't think of a way to do it without the oscillator. Any idea's ?

I have a non sensitive gate SCR an S6025L, I think i'll try it and see what happens, i'll use thicker wire connections and try to think of a better way to trigger the gate, ie. right amount of current.

Cheers

[Guruji]

moonlight

Hi Guruji,


No I haven't been able to get anymore than that either, Apparently if the trigger is inverted, it can work like that, I tried it but I think I may have done something wrong because my transistor got so hot at 12 volts input it burned a blister on my finger when I touched it. Post #61 in the thred below has the patent number for that setup. I got it to work but it got very hot at 12 volts I think i did something wrong, I guess I must have. Do you have your setup working ?

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...battery-3.html

Seamonkey you are a very helpfull, Thank you that looks good. I haven't had a chance to build the cmos desufator yet but I am very close to starting the circuit I have the 4001 chips, when I start I don't stop till I finished, so I can keep my mind on the job.

Got another big battery online now.

For those reviving old batteries with a radiant spike device , I noticed that if there is any trace of electrolyte on the top of the battery it conducts the radiant puses outside the battery from one terminal to the other, I was measuring 9 volts on the plastic case inches from the terminal, both probes at once. So what I did was washed the battery with soapy water and rag then scrubbed it a bit with baking soda in solution, problem solved now no voltage reading outside of the battery. I think it making problems for the restoration of that battery.

Cheers

Hi Farmhand no I'm using a JT to pulse my battery and needs about 150ma least to oscillate maybe I will try the stingo now but as I said 0.3v are too low to work with.

[Farmhand]

Hi Guruji,

Hi Farmhand so in moonlight do you manage to run the oscillator? Cause yesterday I tried to see what voltage is coming in full moon and it was only 0.3v measured on my panel

No I haven't been able to get anymore than that either, Apparently if the trigger is inverted, it can work like that, I tried it but I think I may have done something wrong because my transistor got so hot at 12 volts input it burned a blister on my finger when I touched it. Post #61 in the thred below has the patent number for that setup. I got it to work but it got very hot at 12 volts I think i did something wrong, I guess I must have. Do you have your setup working ?

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...battery-3.html

Seamonkey you are a very helpfull, Thank you that looks good. I haven't had a chance to build the cmos desufator yet but I am very close to starting the circuit I have the 4001 chips, when I start I don't stop till I finished, so I can keep my mind on the job.

Got another big battery online now.

For those reviving old batteries with a radiant spike device , I noticed that if there is any trace of electrolyte on the top of the battery it conducts the radiant puses outside the battery from one terminal to the other, I was measuring 9 volts on the plastic case inches from the terminal, both probes at once. So what I did was washed the battery with soapy water and rag then scrubbed it a bit with baking soda in solution, problem solved now no voltage reading outside of the battery. I think it making problems for the restoration of that battery.

Cheers

[Guruji]

farmhand circuit

Hi Farmhand so in moonlight do you manage to run the oscillator? Cause yesterday I tried to see what voltage is coming in full moon and it was only 0.3v measured on my panel

[SeaMonkey]

An innovative capacitive voltage doubler
pulser circuit, principally for battery desulfation,
has been developed by Mark at the Desulfation
Forum. See it here:

Voltage Doubler Pulser

With just a little modification it would lend
itself well to a Solar Charging application.

As is, it is an efficient self-powered desulfator
for keeping lead acid batteries in top condition.

[Farmhand]

Hi Inquorate, Thanks mate, I was inspired by a drawing you posted here somewhere actually, showing a relay cap pulser, and you also posted the method for the SCR as well I think in that same thread, very helpfull. And so while I was trying to devise an alternating relay pulser, I decided it was too difficult and decided to go this way.

Mine is still working very well, it will take some tuning of the setup to work in different ways. But it works. Though I get the feeling it does restrict the energy flow a bit at higher throughputs. At lower throughput it improves the flow in my opinion. Well thats the idea.

So has anyone had any success with it yet? Anyone tried a different switching method?

Totoalas I havn't had a chance to rewire the battery swapper yet, but I think it will work ok, on mine I used 5v relays with a 100 ohm fixed resister in series with a 5.6v zener diode the 5k trim pot and the relay coil (the 100 ohm fixed resister is not shown on the drawing and is probably not needed anyway).

The theory is the 5v relay has less resistance than a 12v one so the 100 ohm resister is to make up for that. I'll rewire mine test and edit the drawing when I get time.

Cheers all