Plasma propulsion / Lifter / EM Antigravity Mini AirCraft

[serfer5]

voltage multiplier

did a test with a voltage multiplier attached to L1 ( main coil ) slayer circuit, i had two 3/4 inch sparks then the circuit goes out and the transistor gets hot, will try again later

[sucahyo]

but the power supply that i built used a voltage multiplier that was made of diodes and capacitors and thus a strait DC output, I actually had to discharge the power supply after every use

You use voltage multiplier with DC input?

[serfer5]

You use voltage multiplier with DC input?

obviously not directly, you use an inverter circuit like the one here Simple High Voltage Generator: Low Voltage DC In, up to 30 kV Out , i put 24 volts dc into the inverter circuit and the output was about 5kv ac, this 5kv ac was put into the voltage multiplier to get about 45kv dc. works very nice.

[Harvey]

this particular thuster video made a lot of people think because the time to charge the plates was too long for what would have been expected, what you cant hear in this vid is the moment the power is turned on there is no sound then just before it starts to move there is an increase of hissing noise.

I can't explain it my self

I would expect that the hissing sound begins when the dielectric breaks down, and in this case the dielectric could also include the surrounding air as the field stretches outward from the charged plates in all directions. But if there is breakdown, then there is also current flow, or charge distribution into the air.

Those videos out there that show a plasma forming between the plates; that indicates a conductive medium, the plasma. So current is flowing through the plasma and this means that a magnetic field must be forming around that current. But it also means that power is being converted in the plasma. So the charges that leave the one plate, leave with a large velocity like gas from a jet. but they release energy in the plasma as light and the formation of a magnetic field and therefore lose kinetic energy. So a differential occurs when they strike the other plate with less force than they left the first. So this could be an action - reaction phenomenon but it required the dielectric breakdown before it occurred?

If so, then the object would be to provide a good plasma between the plates that converted as much of the power to light as possible so that the kinetic energy of the charges is fully consumed in the plasma by the conversion. This could provide a strong push off the first plate with virtually no impact with the second.

It would seem then, as well, that an array of SMT resistors could be used in place of the plasma where 100% of the charges could be converted to heat (IR light) but would that reduce the kinetic energy of the charges to zero?

Where is the best place to read up on the theory behind these capacitive thrusters?

[serfer5]

the only two site i would recommend would be blaze lab and JLN The Lifters Experiments home page by Jean-Louis Naudin and check out the links at the bottom of the page.

I would expect that the hissing sound begins when the dielectric breaks down, and in this case the dielectric could also include the surrounding air as the field stretches outward from the charged plates in all directions. But if there is breakdown, then there is also current flow, or charge distribution into the air.

Those videos out there that show a plasma forming between the plates; that indicates a conductive medium, the plasma. So current is flowing through the plasma and this means that a magnetic field must be forming around that current. But it also means that power is being converted in the plasma. So the charges that leave the one plate, leave with a large velocity like gas from a jet. but they release energy in the plasma as light and the formation of a magnetic field and therefore lose kinetic energy. So a differential occurs when they strike the other plate with less force than they left the first. So this could be an action - reaction phenomenon but it required the dielectric breakdown before it occurred?

If so, then the object would be to provide a good plasma between the plates that converted as much of the power to light as possible so that the kinetic energy of the charges is fully consumed in the plasma by the conversion. This could provide a strong push off the first plate with virtually no impact with the second.

It would seem then, as well, that an array of SMT resistors could be used in place of the plasma where 100% of the charges could be converted to heat (IR light) but would that reduce the kinetic energy of the charges to zero?

Where is the best place to read up on the theory behind these capacitive thrusters?

[MrMagAmp]

I liked very much to see this thread.
I also was thinking about an electropropulsion apparatus since a lot of time ago.

Sincerely, the first thing I think we need to do is to create electrorradiant waves. Building an UFO is basically easy. We need to create an electrostatic field, and we'll get a propulsion effect.

The problems while using electromagnetic energy are:
1) We need a really big power generator, that implies more weight to the space ship. That requires more power, that at the same time requires more heavy batteries.

2) We can electrocute ourselves or get some damage is we are near of a really high voltage power source.

3) The dielectric will burn if we apply a very high electromagnetic energy (very high required to levitate some kilograms/pounds).

If we use electrorradiant energy (cold electricity) we can solve all those problems. Pure potential waves (pure voltage, radiant energy) can be amplified the times we need, so we can get enormous amount of energy from a single 12V car battery.
We cannot electrocute ourselves. Electrorradiant waves are cold and if the impulse time are shorter than 100 nanoseconds, they cannot damage us.
The dielectric won't burn because, electrorradiant energy is pure potential and cold.



I have thought in a simple design, base on Naudin tests:
YouTube - ufo lifter of jl naudin see my tiny ufo

[serfer5]

had the same reaction with my first rocket lifter as in the video you posted from JLN, actually all lifters would do the same if not tied down

I liked very much to see this thread.
I also was thinking about an electropropulsion apparatus since a lot of time ago.

Sincerely, the first thing I think we need to do is to create electrorradiant waves. Building an UFO is basically easy. We need to create an electrostatic field, and we'll get a propulsion effect.

The problems while using electromagnetic energy are:
1) We need a really big power generator, that implies more weight to the space ship. That requires more power, that at the same time requires more heavy batteries.

2) We can electrocute ourselves or get some damage is we are near of a really high voltage power source.

3) The dielectric will burn if we apply a very high electromagnetic energy (very high required to levitate some kilograms/pounds).

If we use electrorradiant energy (cold electricity) we can solve all those problems. Pure potential waves (pure voltage, radiant energy) can be amplified the times we need, so we can get enormous amount of energy from a single 12V car battery.
We cannot electrocute ourselves. Electrorradiant waves are cold and if the impulse time are shorter than 100 nanoseconds, they cannot damage us.
The dielectric won't burn because, electrorradiant energy is pure potential and cold.



I have thought in a simple design, base on Naudin tests:
YouTube - ufo lifter of jl naudin see my tiny ufo

[TanTric]

..

hi mrmagamp

thanks for joining the debate and for the enlightment in this matter!

cool, so what source will you recommend do drive the lifter? maybe a tesla hairpin circuit, or some that produce cold electricity?

please give more detail, i would like very much to test this with the electroradiant energy!

i experimented with cold electricity, so if you know some schematic or circuit will be great!

kings regards

I liked very much to see this thread.
I also was thinking about an electropropulsion apparatus since a lot of time ago.

Sincerely, the first thing I think we need to do is to create electrorradiant waves. Building an UFO is basically easy. We need to create an electrostatic field, and we'll get a propulsion effect.

The problems while using electromagnetic energy are:
1) We need a really big power generator, that implies more weight to the space ship. That requires more power, that at the same time requires more heavy batteries.

2) We can electrocute ourselves or get some damage is we are near of a really high voltage power source.

3) The dielectric will burn if we apply a very high electromagnetic energy (very high required to levitate some kilograms/pounds).

If we use electrorradiant energy (cold electricity) we can solve all those problems. Pure potential waves (pure voltage, radiant energy) can be amplified the times we need, so we can get enormous amount of energy from a single 12V car battery.
We cannot electrocute ourselves. Electrorradiant waves are cold and if the impulse time are shorter than 100 nanoseconds, they cannot damage us.
The dielectric won't burn because, electrorradiant energy is pure potential and cold.



I have thought in a simple design, base on Naudin tests:
YouTube - ufo lifter of jl naudin see my tiny ufo

[MrMagAmp]

had the same reaction with my first rocket lifter as in the video you posted from JLN, actually all lifters would do the same if not tied down

Yes, all lifters would do the same. Anyone trying to build an electropopulsion apparatus needs to resolves the same questions:
1) Get enought energy, without increasing the weight of the power source
2) Will the strong electromagnetic field exposure damage yourself?

With electrorradiant energy all that questions all resolved.
Alexander Deseversky Ionocraft:


He didn't built the spacecraft for the same reasons: the weight of the power source and the perils of the high electromagnetic fields.

hi mrmagamp

thanks for joining the debate and for the enlightment in this matter!

cool, so what source will you recommend do drive the lifter? maybe a tesla hairpin circuit, or some that produce cold electricity?

please give more detail, i would like very much to test this with the electroradiant energy!

i experimented with cold electricity, so if you know some schematic or circuit will be great!

kings regards

Hi TanTric,
The Hairpin Circuit is a good option to use, but the output need to be amplified. If you want to get enought energy to lift the craft, then we only can amplify the electrorradiant energy.

Here is a model of the Hairpin Circuit. The difference is I added a Tesla Coil at the output of the Hairpin, instead of conecting directly the lifter. The amplifier is a Tesla Coil, but instead of amplify the electromagnetic energy (as we usually do), in this case the energy amplified is electrorradiant.




I think, a well tuned hairpin circuit with the tesla coil will be enought to perform some experiments. If not, I have thought about different models of electrorradiant amplifiers (I haven't built anything). Just theory. But we need to test the hairpin, first.

[seth]

Im a bit confused MrMagamp

The only way the above circuit differs from a standard tesla coil, is the second capacitor. How would you put in the 2 stout copper bars?? would they just be sitting there in place of the transformer output leads?

I guarantee that if i connect each end of my tesla secondary to the lifter capacitor plates, the result will be arcing - the lifter capacitor plates would have to be at least 30 cm apart to avoid this due to the length of the tesla streamers. How would you avoid arcing? There arent many dieiectrics which can work well at such high frequencies and voltages.

I dont wanna say that using AC power (as in your above circuit) isnt possible for producing the ''lifter'' effect (though it certainly isnt the standard way). Ive read Laviolettes book about TT Brown, and I remember that Brown claimed to be able to produce similar effects with AC. I would be really interested in seeing some AC capacitor thrusters....

Has anyone seen, or had any success with, AC capacitor thrusters??? I dont recall Naudin EVER showing an AC capacitor thruster....Have I been missing something? Can AC produce this effect?

Perhaps you are thinking (MrMagAmp) of ION thrusters?? Like the ion motors you can stick on a tesla coil, which work by ion wind? They only require one plate - lifters always require 2 plates, one cathode and one anode.

[MrMagAmp]

Seth,

Yes, it's almost the same as a tesla coil. The only difference I try to perform is to "separate" the power source from the battery. Basically, the energy that lits the light bulb (in our case, the plates or plate) it exclusively extracted from the capacitors, in the case of Indirect Connection.

The effect I want to get is to run the plates using Cold Electrical Energy. Cold electricity is the same as pure potential energy (pure voltage, electrostatic energy). The difference between our concept of electrostatic and the pure potential waves, is the electrostatic is high voltage-extremely low current. Cold electrical current, is pure voltage without any amperage. It's a wattless form of electrical energy.
To obtain it we need to keep in mind that electrons start to flow after a very short period of time (relaxation time in conductors). When we connect the light bulb Directly to the power source, the electrons take some time to start to flow in the circuit. Before that moment, there is pure potential energy flowing in the circuit (in the transient time). After that moment, voltage and amperage (electrons) start to flow (in the permanent time).

If you use high voltage (that implies low current), and perform very short pulses continually (High Voltage Pulsed DC), and the output is separated from the power source in the moment we lit the light bulb, then, we can extract that energy that flows in the transient time, that it's pure potential energy.



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Arcing prevention is a thing we need to study more in deep.

AC can produce this effect also, look at Boyd Bushman Video:
YouTube - UFO-Electromagnetic Levitation Demonstration

There are some people in youtube that have replicated Bushman's levitating coil. The problem is the wire gets extremely hot in a few seconds. Another problem is the test only works while repeling a metalic plate. If we use cold electrical current, we'll solve the first question (overheat). The second question is that we need to repel to the entire Earth, instead of an small conductor. I think varying th frequency and the voltage, it could de accomplished.
I read somewhere that Boyd says his system works in a similar way to Tesla's Wireless transmission of energy (all we know Tesla's system was an electrorradiant system). He also sayd that his system was based on a 2nd generation of Lenz Laws (??) I think he was refering to Electrorradiant Induction Laws, instead of electromagnetic induction laws.
All needed is to work with the transient electrical phenomenas, instead of permanent electrical phenomena (electromagnetic energy).

The Boyd Bushman coil would also work with Pulsed DC electromagnetic energy? Or only with AC electromagnetic?

[MrMagAmp]

Bushman's with Pulsed DC also?

In the Bushman experiments and replications, we can see a coil levitating against a metalic plate.

While surfing in youtube, I have also seen that an air core coil can repel a coin or a metalic part:
YouTube - electromagnetic Launcher 2

The technique in the video I think it's about discharging a capacitor in the coil and then the metallic plate jumps. So, in this case we don't need to use AC electricity directly to the coil. The energy to the coil comes from a capacitor, instead the AC power supply.

So, based in the video.
1) Could it be possible to repel the coil instead the metalic plate? I mean, to put the coil in the metalic plate and the coil then jumps in the air.

2) It could be possible to repel against the Earth (surface), instead to repel in the presence of a metalic plate? I mean, to repel directly to the planet instead of repeling a metalic plate.

[seth]

In the Bushman experiments and replications, we can see a coil levitating against a metalic plate.

.

Before we start speculating about the Bushman levitating coil, i suggest we replicate it. After all, he says its just 250 turns of 30 guage wire plugged into the mains. I find it extremely hard to believe that such a simple arrangement will produce levitation - has anyone here EVER seen or heard of a replication of Bushmans levitating coil????

Who has the balls to try?

I suppose a battery and inverter should be enough to see if there is any thrust (hang it like a pendulum, and see)....sadly i dont have an inverter....

Who has an inverter that will convert DC to 50-60 Hz AC? Try this, and lets find out if Bushman is actually telling the truth.

I have to say, i find this extremely unlikely.......

Nonetheless, as Faraday said ''but still try for who knows whats possible??''

You gonna have a try MrMagAmp? Be careful if you do.....remove all flamables away from the wire!!!!

EDIT: ive found someone who had a try. Result.....nothing.

YouTube - Boyd Bushman antigravity recreation ThermoCap video part 1

But then he tries again......less turns.....

YouTube - Boyd Bushman antigravity recreation ThermoCap video part 2

and bingo!!!!!! IM AMAZED!!! Is it this simple???

[seth]

An explanation????

firstly, an aluminium plate is required beneath the coil.....

YouTube - LENZ'S LAW LEVITATION DEMONSTRATION

Check out his channel too......his builds are the best i have ever seen. We need him here!!!!

YouTube - clagwell's Channel

[MrMagAmp]

Seth,
I could try it. A friend forgot in my home an inverter . It's 300 watt. I think it will be enought. The problem is the coil configuration.
250 turns, but... what is the diameter of the coil?

If you make an incorrect configuration, then it won't work and I will destroy my friend's inverter LOL

This coil works with 60 watts.
YouTube - Levitation of an Electromagnetic Induction Coil