What is Electric Current?

[sucahyo]

Ok, thanks.

I think I will post battery info on separate thread after cleaning up.

What is the limit? What effect will be taken as part of electricity effect?

- electromagnetic?
- biological pain/sting?
- electrolysis?
- corona?
- eddy current?
- heating?

How about cool charging?

[MrMagAmp]

@Harvey

I think, (it's my own version, of course) that one of the keys to understand the "Free Energy" is to understand what Amperage really is.

I know I can be wrong, but I only share my own version. I usually see the theories in other form, because while looking at science in the orthodox point of view it's very difficult to understand the free energy concept.

I mainly learnt this from Tesla, Bearden, Don Smith, T.H. Moray and Vassilatos.

As you know, a battery is depleted if we draw current (amperes). Orthodox sciences teached us that we cannot use pure voltage to run a device, and they also teached us that only electromagnetic waves (transverse) exists. In the nature, I think that only Electrorradiant waves (longitudinal) exist. If you have watched some films or books about the Law of Attraction, and other similiar things, you know, when you think about anything, you send a infinite speed "thouhgt wave". That wave is like a gravitic wave.
The transverse, electromagnetic wave, has a finite speed but the gravitic-though wave has a superluminal speed because the gravity-thought wave is transmitted in a superconductive fashion.

Since all nature is composed of longitudinal waves, the thought wave is algo a longitudinal wave and for that reason it has an infinite speed.

When you light a light bulb using ordinary transverse power, the filament gets hot and dissipates part of the energy in form of heat. But when you draw longitudinal energy in a light bulb, the wire acts like a superconductor at room temperature and the ohm's law is not applicable while using longitudinal wave energy. For that reason there is a special bright white light, while you light bulb is on. That was described by Tesla and you can see it in several videos. In my youtube channel (YouTube - MrMagAmp's Channel)
you can see some videos I have found on the net, showing that effect.

To understand Teslian technology, you need to erase of your mind the concept of "electron flow" and replace it by "aether GAS flow". Since aether is a virtual (massless, since its atomic number is < 1 and the gas is a pre-hydrogen chemical compound), the flow of energy you get in a wire while using longitudinal waves is a massless displacement energy, as described by Tom Bearden.

So, the radiant energy is a different manifestation of electrical energy. In this manifestation ohm law is not applicable, the wire acts as a superconductor at room temperature, and its a cold, non-shocking form of electrical energy (NOT power, since power requires Amperes). Radiant energy is a pure potential (pure voltage), wave, and there isn't electron flow. There is other sub-particle flow (ionic?). Radiant energy is also called Wattless energy, since Transverse energy = Volts x Amps, and Longitudinal energy is Pure Voltage and zero amperes.

Radiant energy is also a transient phenomena, that you get when you create a dipole. So, you need to make-and-break the circuit at very high speed, to generate that effect. Common electromagnetic energy is continuous and permanent, and longitudinal waves are pulsating and transient. As Lindemann says, it's a electron-defficient form of electricity. It only happens when you create a dipole, and it's a very quick phenomena. Also, you can perform "inverse induction"l, to get that spike from the vacuum. As you will see, that spike is a different form of electricity, called Longitudinal energy. Bedini explain this very well.

So, I think, energy is any order, geometrical and mathematical order of the possibilities of that virtual flux that is present in the whole spacetime continuous. I remember some quotes, the first quote is of Boyd Bushman that Says "Nature doesn't Speak English and it doesn't understand about Books"
The other quote is from Stewart Swerdlow, and he says that we need to understand the language of the creator. The nature doesn't speak to us using complex books and formulas. She speaks to us using shapes, tones, colours and the mathematical relations of all those shapes and colours.

So, I repeat, the energy is only a coherent manifestation of the ether (spacetime continuous). Since, the matter is condensed light (supercapacitance). All in the entire universe is based on longitudinal energy and the different manifestations of the virtual flux of the vacuum. That virtual flux, (one time more) is composed of different nobel gases, but these gases are virtual and they are ommited in the classic periodic table. With virtual I mean that they are massless because them atomic number Z < 1. They are pre-hydrogen chemical compounds. And the ether is full of a non-coherent flow of virtual particles that can be interacted with, to create specific geometric-mathematical relationships and obtain desired effects in the physical, observable, mass, universe. The desired effect can be the creation of coherent supercapacitance (materialization of mass), fields, potentials, etc...

the problem with classic theories is that they are based on a material, mass, electron, nature, but we need to understand that there is a virtual, massless, electron defficient, nature that is invisible to our eyes, but not to our mind.

I could be wrong, but that is my opinion.

[Jbignes5]

Nice.

Very close,

You might want to think that these virtual charges or particles are invisible but I pro pose that the charges are fleeting and moving. It is the coveyors of the energy that are the true motivational factor. These particles are real and every where, especially around radiative sources like a magnet.
The conductors of potential (charges) are the smallest particle known to man (quantum) and they are very crystaline in nature. Although their size vary tremendously their effect doesn't. I tend to believe that they are pyramidal in shape facilitating a large charge attraction base with a high focusing tip to guide the particle. This allows superfast paths to other charge fields or potential connections (the lining up of several conductors to form bridges depending on the availability of neutral conductors.) This extended connections have a ghost like ability to present light or other radiative events like EMF to happen. These ghost like connections have no real charge other then potential. With vision or light it allows certain conditions to change without being directly connected to the source.
Magnets on the other hand are pure potential superconductors. Once formed they will run just about forever because they don't use any energy at all. In fact they only serve to provide a potential difference over a much larger area. Like a dam does with water. The dam displaces the water till it reaches a certain potential and the acceleration of the energy flies away from the magnet. Much like an island in the middle of a stream.
What is working with a magnet is these tiny conductors and pumping them out faster then would normally be seen in nature. One end gets a build up of these particles that are stacked end to end between the two potential poles. These are the invisible lines of force or ghost carriers and they show you how powerful they can be.
Lets look at the atoms you were refering to. When there is a point source of charge other connectors can and will join together and form a buckyball like structure. With all the tips being attracted to the inner charge. The outter charges, which are real form the electron shell having either a sum that is positive, negative or neutral. You also have to understand that there are probably millions of these tiny buckyballs making a single atom but thats only a sumation from me. Since these conductors are the smallest quantum of anything we know. But I believe there are much larger versions of the same so it might not be that far off. With magnets being the largest of this fundamental conductors.
See if that jives with you.

[Joit]

Voltage

Can someone say in a simple sentence or two
What do we know or measure as Voltage?
Just nosy, what Answers will come.

And oh well, i would add to Post #6 for the White Domains this Picture


Another Point at Post #3

What path does this flux take when it leaves the surface of a magnet? Close to the magnet it is often determined by the magnets geometry, but at some distance it tends to normalize into an overall spherical shape.

When you compare Pictures from Ferrofluid
then the Field exist with Peaks.
When you would press 2 from this Peaks-Fields together,
it may would make an round way around the top side from the area too,
so it may seems like it is a closed Field, but it are only the opposite Forces,
what push it away in this spheric shape.
I am just not really shure, if the Peaks create herself by its own,
like it inducts into the small Particles, what are around us, a opposite Field,
or, it is the difference between this White Domains, where the magnetic Field sort itself to a area, like it usual do,
and it makes ie. a North Field and the 'free' space at the Ferrofluid is the South.
I think anyway, that it is to less, just to use 2 Names for the Poles,
because it seems for me like, they got some different Properties,
what you dont see with 2 simple Names.

[Harvey]

Hello Joit,

It is good to see your post

Thank you for that microscopic image of the Neodymium Magnet. At 20µm I don't know if we are seeing Weiss Domains there but the structure certainly is interesting to look at and does show a clear division between the polycrystalline structure.

The 'Lines of Force' issue has been debated for many years. Some would say they are the interaction of ferromagnetic material making the gradients choose to group together so density gets stronger in the grouping and without the interactive material the flux would just be smoothly distributed.

But we have some empirical evidence to suggest that the lines do actually exist and tend to centralize through the domains. This is true also of the Earths Magnetic field where specific Solar particles have become entangled around these 'Lines of Force' and follow them down, spiraling around them until the atmosphere discharges them. Also, the surface shape where they exit plays a part in the density. The edges of a cylinder magnet will have a greater density than the center - which is interesting because it tells us a bit also about the length of the flux path playing a part in the neighbor density.

Voltage is simply a differential measurement of charge and represents how tightly packed the charge carriers are in a given space relative to a reference. Take for instance the Van de Graff generator mentioned earlier in the thread. The inside of the capacitor must always move to be zero because as Maxwell showed us, charges do not like to be on the inside of a closed surface. So if you put a low voltage inside, it will move to the outside and make the inside zero again, over and over. Eventually, all the charges you put on the inside will be on the outside up to thousands of volts. In fact, it will get so high, that it will eventually break down the dielectric of air (corona discharge) in order to relieve the high tension between charged particles. That is the principle behind how those generators work. So, the higher the stress between particles, the higher the voltage. What do you think would happen if you took one spherical capacitor that was charged to 100V and touched it to another identical that was at zero volts? Would they both be 100V, or would they both be 50V, or something else? What makes that happen?

[ozmatic]

Hi Harvey,
The title of this thread - "What is electric current ?"- is very close to my heart, so - many thanks for starting it.
I learn about electricity empirically - I build a circuit and then try to figure out what is going on.
Recently, I built a capacitor discharge spot welder to construct a large NiCd battery pack from recycled cells.It is a very simple circuit and its performance exceeded expectations. It also gave me plenty to think about concerning current flow.
The circuit is based on a 12 Farad 18Volt audio capacitor. It is charged to 16v from a battery, through a current limiting light bulb. This is great, as you can actually watch the capacitor charge - the bulb initially so bright, gradually dims until the capacitor is fully charged. This takes about 30 seconds - it gives you an appreciation of just how much charge 12F really is. I am sure that [if I was a mathemetician], I could compute the changing resistance of the light bulb [with temperature] , the changing voltage,the changing current flow, and come up with 12F @ 16V. Everything correct according to the basic science that I was taught at school. Nowadays I call this "analogue" current flow.
Once the cap is charged, the battery is switched out of this part of the circuit.
The discharge side of the circuit is also very simple. It comprises an SCR ,the cathode connected to the negative terminal of the capacitor by a very heavy duty braided copper wire, and the anode connected to a similar wire, which terminates with a solid silver point soldered into the end of the wire. Another similar wire/silver tip , is directly connected to the positive terminal of the capacitor. These two wires [heavily insulated] are the welding electrodes.
The Scr is gated through a foot switch connected to the battery. I chose to switch the negative side because electrons are supposed to flow from negative to positve in real life ,though electronic schematics always show the opposite. I still find this very confusing, and think it is farcical - how can they teach us when they cant agree which pole the electrons come from!

In operation, the welder has given rise to several questions. When I first started using it, I would place the strip of metal to be welded on the NiCd cell and hold it there under pressure with the negative electrode. I would then hold the positive electrode on the cell alone, and fire the Scr with the foot switch. If contact was good, I would feel a "thud" in the hand that is holding the negative electrode. This thud means that some energy is dissipated as physical force.If I then tear the strip off the cell ,I find a hemispherical nodule of metal as the weld. This implies a radiant burst of energy/heat.
If I use the positive electrode to hold the strip on the cell,I still feel the thud in the negative electrode, but the weld will be very inferior, if it manages to weld at all. I take this as confirmation that electrons do indeed come from the negative electrode!
One day, by accident, I applied both electrodes to the metal strip on top of the cell [basically a straight short of the electrodes], and fired the Scr. To my surprise, both points of contact resulted in viable welds. This is how I now do the welds, as it is much more convenient and I get two welds for the price of one. I cannot explain this at all.
When I fire the Scr, the capacitor discharges to 0v in a very small fraction of a second. I cannot measure the time , as I dont have a scope with a one-shot recording facility. The current flow must be in the order of thousands of amps - many times the rating of the Scr. I encounter this a lot , and with transistors and mosfets as well, in one-shot and very low frequency applications, but Scrs are tremendous at it. It seems that the discharge is so fast that heat cannot build up in the semiconductor to an extent that it is damaged, and yet the amps get through.
What is going on with this discharge? - The effects are so radically different to an "analogue" discharge of the capacitor [ discharging it through the light bulb].
Tesla, in his lectures, refered to the "disruptive discharge" of capacitors and inductors. I think this is a brilliant term. Disruptive discharges of potential energy, in all branches of science, have radically different effects to "analogue"discharges. Take a balloon that you inflate and then release - it flies around the room emitting rude noises. Jet propulsion is the main way energy is dissipated. Inflate the balloon again and burst it - a sonic shockwave is the main [detectable] result of this disruptive discharge.
I would love to get some answers that make sense to me - it could help me with the disruptive discharge of inductors - but that is for another day!
Chris

[Joit]

A nice Post ozmatic.
With a lot open Questions, lol.

And well, about the Voltage.
Yes, its true about moving Parts anyhow, as maybe like all view of sides are.
But well, i did build last Days a simple Generator,
a Coil with a turning Magnet inside.
And Voltage therefor, is only how fast the Magnet is moving.
So its at one side, how the magnetical Force is moving (these Parts)
or align them.
What is interesting on it, i moved the Magnets with a Drill,
and at a certain RPM, the Voltage did not increase very much more or very fast, but the Amperage did.
Seems like, it was the Point, where i did reach the Saturation of the Wire.
So, the Amperage looks like, it is, what pressure is behind this Moves.

And, can be, that the resolution from the Picture is not high enough,
but maybe it shows the Domains grouped. So maybe we can get a clue about it.
Next thing. doesnt it looks like, it is only the back side and the frontside from something?
Because Magnets are made from aligned Parts, means, you
force a stream to go into one Direction, and cool it down.
so, doesnt it means, you only turn some Parts in a certain Direction, and some are only opposite?

About Capacitors, what i see is, it is importend, that they have smooth, plain surfaces,
what lay close to each other for a good Induction, what are isolated
and at distance with the dielectric Material, and that you get 2 Layers.
You 'fill' or align the Particles at the Layers from each Side,
and they hold trough the Layers with the magnetic Forces together,
and build up therefor a Potential,
what you can release, when you connect them over the ' long' Connection
outside.

And well, back to the 'Bumps' what ozmatic mentioned.
Couldnt it more like be, that there are no Electrons, what are moving,
but Parts, what are aligned to certain 'Bodys',
but with a Bump, like a Magnet does, it bumbs them to the next Body,
that it creates a chainreaction of Bumbs, but there dont move Parts,
they only teeter.
And as you see at the White Domains, the Areas are not closed with
complete White or black parts, it is a big Mix.
So when you transfer DC, you have a Backchannel inside the Wire.
And may thats why you cant transfer DC very well over long distance,
because this Bumbs lost Power with the dirty Mix at the Material.
But just pushing it back and forth, like AC does work easier,
when the parts allways can go over the Zero Point.

Van de Graaf Generator,
just they mention, that it is not very efficient.


Schematic view of a classical Van de Graaff generator.
1) hollow metal sphere
2) upper electrode
3) upper roller (metal)
4) side of the belt with positive charges
5) opposite side of the belt with negative charges
6) lower roller (for example in acrylic glass)
7) lower electrode (ground)
8) spherical device with negative charges, used to discharge the main sphere
9) spark produced by the difference of potentials


...even, when i like this one more

[Harvey]

Chris,

First the current flow polarity problem.
Positive current (ion charge propagation for instance) moves from a positively charged terminal toward a negatively charged terminal. This is what our Ammeters are telling us when they give a positive reading. However, this charge propagation does not always mean that the ions themselves are propagating. The particles themselves need not propagate the entire distance, they only need to exchange their charge with their neighbors in a specific sequence. For example, let's say each (-) is a negative ion and the (+) is a positive ion:

[neg term] - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +- - - - [pos term]

Now, any given (-) does not need to travel the entire length from left to right to accomplish a full length transfer of charge. All that needs to occur, is that each successive (-) swap with the (+) as it approaches from the right. After 20 such swaps, a positive current will have moved from [pos term] to [neg term] and the (-) will all have only moved once each. Now imagine millions of these happening together side-by-side in a wire



Regarding the same surface spot welds:

Yes it may seem difficult to understand at first but there are a couple of principles involved that make the side-by-side welding work.

Notice in these instructions it clearly states to place both probes on the work side-by-side:

Hobby Spot Welders


Also notice here:
Hobby Spot Welders

Some applications may not allow for an electrode on each side of the work piece. In these situations two electrodes may be placed on the same side in parallel. Current flows into the metal though the first electrode creating a weld nugget and then into the second electrode creating the second. Parameters such as electrode pressure and weld current are also critical in this configuration. Uneven or inadequate pressure can damage electrodes and leave holes in the work piece.

These types of welds are often called resistance welds because they depend on the resistance of the conductor contact areas to facilitate the heating.

The first principle applied is related to the 'loose contact' funneling of charge carriers. This is because the surfaces are not perfectly polished, but have hills and valleys at a microscopic level. The odds of all the imperfections of one connection matching up with those in the other connection are astronomical. So we end up with a whole bunch of very small microscopic contact points that all of that energy must funnel through. Those tiny contact points act as resistors that all start heating up. This happens at the probe contact and the work contacts. There is a parallel path through the strip (dead short as you say) and the battery material - both share the current, and the least resistive carries the more current. If your strip is resistive, and the battery terminal is not, then a greater majority of the current will flow through the lower contact points.

The second principle is that when most metals increase in temperature, their resistance increases and this is especially true when they reach their point of incandescence which indicates that the atoms begin to give off the incoming energy photonically to avoid structural loss. Of course the speed at which the energy is dumped into these connection by the capacitive discharge exceeds the material ability to dissipate it, so the material structure does in fact breakdown and enter a phase transition from solid to liquid and back. But while in the molten state, the metals marriage.

So, now that you know these things - what do you imagine would occur if you tried to weld a very conductive, low resistance material to the top of a less conductive high resistance material? How would the current flow, and what effect might that have on heating?

[Harvey]

There is no motion in spacetime, except in your fantasies.

Spacium, Spacii, Spatium, Spati => Space (meaning; gap or area)

Tempus => Time (meaning; finite as contrasted with infinite duration)

Schpankme

"In fact, the worship of spacetime has been reserved for the ignorant masses, who follow after their master without question."

Interesting. . . so as the Earth moves through the 'gap' between the Sun and Mars over the finite period of a year . . . it is only a fantasy?

[Harvey]

Joit,

Thanx for those images Really great stuff.

Wish we had the list to go along with those numbers in the yellow circles

Did everyone grasp the concept, that the inside of the sphere is always zero even though a continuous stream of charges is dumped into it?

Also, it should be noted that the Triboelectric Effect is responsible for the charge generation as the belt pulls away from the rollers.

Cheers!

[Joit]

Joit,

Thanx for those images Really great stuff.

Wish we had the list to go along with those numbers in the yellow circles

Did everyone grasp the concept, that the inside of the sphere is always zero even though a continuous stream of charges is dumped into it?

Also, it should be noted that the Triboelectric Effect is responsible for the charge generation as the belt pulls away from the rollers.

Cheers!

I got the Picture actually from Wiki, but here is the List for the Numbers.

Schematic view of a classical Van De Graaf generator.

Schematic view of a classical Van de Graaff generator.
1) hollow metal sphere
2) upper electrode
3) upper roller (metal)
4) side of the belt with positive charges
5) opposite side of the belt with negative charges
6) lower roller (for example in acrylic glass)
7) lower electrode (ground)
8) spherical device with negative charges, used to discharge the main sphere
9) spark produced by the difference of potentials

[Harvey]

Thank You Joit,

Very kind of you to get the list for us. I especially like that it identifies the metal roller and the acrylic roller (very important) on this device.

[Schpankme]

Interesting. . . so as the Earth moves through the 'gap' between the Sun and Mars over the finite period of a year . . . it is only a fantasy?

Harvey,

Maybe you can explain for the lay person how the Earth orbiting the Sun has anything remotely in common with Motion in Spacetime.

Schpankme

"Lets not forget that relativity is not reality."

[Harvey]

Yes there is no doubt or maybe about it. . . I could explain it.

[Richie_asg1]

And well, back to the 'Bumps' what ozmatic mentioned.
Couldnt it more like be, that there are no Electrons, what are moving,
but Parts, what are aligned to certain 'Bodys',
but with a Bump, like a Magnet does, it bumbs them to the next Body,
that it creates a chainreaction of Bumbs, but there dont move Parts,
they only teeter.

But just pushing it back and forth, like AC does work easier,
when the parts allways can go over the Zero Point.

This would fit in with my personal ideas about how atoms naturally vibrate.

Imagine a wire like a tube filled with snooker balls.
If you whack the end ball - the impulse is transmitted all the way to the other end, eventually transfering the impule to whatever is attatched to it.
Very much like "newtons Cradle"

I suggest that good conductors are aligned - so to maximise the effect, while insulators consist of atoms loosely assosiated together, vibrating in more space.

If this theory holds out, then High voltage is best transmitted at high frequency, and low voltage DC would cause problems of overheating as electrons are forced to jump to the next available atom. Possibly overloading it with electrons?
What is Resistance then ?, and how is it that some materials are better conductors ? - Is it the ability to transfer extra electrons to an outer shell?

Looking at good ol' wiki - Electrical resistance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It seems that our fundamental science is built on "ideas and supposed science" - which may be worth revising at some point.
Note the "skin effect" and "proximity effect" may just be a convenient hypothesis.