What is Electric Current?

[Harvey]

I see. Thanks.

How about electricity that do not heat up my battery vs the one that do heat it up. Is that the same electricity with different property or the one that do not heat the battery up is not electricity?




BTW, I think there is missunderstanding about the heating nichrome, I was meant to say:
Can you try to put the nichrome wire in the oven or burn it to red, cool it down and then see if it still attracted to magnet?

I ask because I once has a couple of nickel bolt that attracted to magnet that will no longer did after I burn them.

Ah, now I understand your question regarding the Nichrome. From what I recall, tempered Nickle loses it's permeability. Special annealing processes are used to produce alloys like HY-Mu-80. This Chart shows how the temperature of the material during the annealing affects the permeability of the material. While you probably did not get anywhere near those temperatures, it is still possible that your bolts cooled much too quickly and now the domains are polycrystalline. This could be bad also if you intend to use your bolts for stress applications as they are probably more like glass now rather than elastic metal - harder to shear and bend, but more brittle.

Annealed materials are much more lined up in flexible layers. This is important if you want a soft magnetic material to be responsive to H fields.

As regards the strange heating you have witnessed. I have a personal theory that Bedini's chargers interact with a little known particle I call a positrino. The positrino is exactly like a neutrino in every aspect except it has a positive charge. They are smaller than an electron. In my theory, these entrapped particles orbit the electrons as they orbit the nucleus the way the Moon orbits the Earth as the Earth orbits the Sun. In a balanced matrix of copper wire coils or the lead plates, the normal material will be heavier by that amount if I am correct. These positrinos can create odd charge flow characteristics and can even cause a battery to not charge properly and cause wires to exhibit strange impedance to current flow. But if they are slapped around by large magnetic interference, the positrinos can be caused to collide with the electron which alters its energy level and releases an IR photon. It is just a hunch, but I think it may explain why Bedini's chargers have what is said to be a negative electricity - because they liberate the positrinos in a way that they become a reverse charge flow. I also have another theory that states that the vacuum will give up electrons to balance an electromagnetic equation that demands them. I have even published a test to prove that theory, but no one has taken me up on it - it's a simple test which I have published on multiple forums and shared with certain research personnel, but it is very fringe science and I am waiting for our lab to get finished before I do the test.

Apart from those two non-classical explanations, there is a classical explanation for your heat. Your battery material may be polarized and have a higher resistance in one direction as compared to the other. Also, your charge current may be less than your discharge current for a given time interval. Or your time interval may have a greater duty cycle during the discharge cycle. I think there is a battery thread with good information regarding the thermodynamics of the lead acid batteries - did you start that thread?

[sucahyo]

Thanks for the explanation .


I still not sure what actually make the cold electricity, some say it trasmit outside the wire, yet it still obey diode and capacitor. Some say it require attention to geometry, and yet I still get it with my chaotic implementation.

The unique feature of radiant charger is it produce stable power. If the load have high resistance, the current flow is low. If the load have low resistance, the current flow is high.

On some circuit the input current do not have relation with output current. Most circuit consume more on heavier load, others consume less on heavier load.

It seems to require sharp signal, but never without current.

Yes I start lead acid thread, but still don't understand cold charging. This is cold electrolysis too...

[Harvey]

Cold Electricity

Hi Sucahyo,

Here is a PDF on the subject of Cold Electricity which you may have read already, but I put it up again:

http://www.intalek.com/Index/Projects/Research/ColdElectricity.pdf

As we have shown in this thread electric current is a movement of electric charges from one place to another and we know from experiments that this does not have to be confined to conductors but can be represented by the actions as small as single electrons or as large or larger than solar winds.

When using electrical potential to do work in electronic or electromagnetic devices we are well familiar with the conversion of that electric potential to heat (often associated with IR Radiant Energy) where the work is performed by resistive means. But this does not always have to be the case. The only reason that thermal energy is produced in these systems is because the conversion from one form of energy to the other is not efficient and the Conservation of Energy demands that the excess be dissipated by some means.

What is 'cold'? It is a relative term. If we were to deal with absolutes, like this chart shows, we would quickly find that 'cold' is another way of saying 'not hot'. In crystal growth we call the solidification of the liquid 'freezing' but if you touched that solid at it's freeze temperature, it would melt the skin off of your bones . So when we speak of 'cold electricity' we are relating it to what we consider cold relative to our environment. If 300K is considered normal room temperature for many applications, then hotter would be above 300K and colder would be below 300K.

If the circuit material is at room temperature and under normal electrical use a resistor increases in temperature as voltage is dropped across it, then we consider this normal in conventional terms. But if for some reason the resistor drops in temperature then we would recognize this as abnormal. Electrical currents that produce this abnormal effect are considered to be 'Cold Electricity'. The action is related to the thermoelectric effect which often is referenced as Thomson Effect, Seebeck Effect and Peltier Effect.

In reality, these effects are just variants of photoelectric reactions where electromagnetic energy is exchanged for electric energy at the atomic level. When the conditions support the absorption of IR or even a material conversion of molecular kinetic energy to more conductive state (like ionized plasma) the temperature of the material can drop while the electrical current is increased. This can lead to conditions where the conductive medium is colder than room temperature as a result of the applied electrical potential. Such is the case with Peltier Cells which are very common now in fan-less computer cooling systems.

It is beyond the scope of this post to delve into the subatomic interactions between current flow and potential energy exchange that allow some forms of electricity to heat up the material while other forms cool it down. But it is sufficient to state that these different forms are recognized by science and even exploited where beneficial.

[sucahyo]

Thanks. I don't think I can conclude anything from the document lol.

Do it explain why same charging current that flow to the same wire can be made different only by switching it different way?

300mA charging and heat up vs 300mA charging and no heat. Same coil, same transistor, same source. And the only difference is the controlling circuitry.

[Harvey]

Thanks. I don't think I can conclude anything from the document lol.

Do it explain why same charging current that flow to the same wire can be made different only by switching it different way?

300mA charging and heat up vs 300mA charging and no heat. Same coil, same transistor, same source. And the only difference is the controlling circuitry.

I don't have time at the moment to properly address this - but I will do my best to come back to it.

For now, I think you will relate well to something you work with everyday - networking. Power over Ethernet (PoE) systems make use of the Superposition Theorem in separating currents of different types.

Also, spend a little time researching why higher frequency components are smaller in size for the same power relationships. There is a very sound reason that Tesla chose 60Hz instead of 50Hz and it is tied more to natural resources than to Schumann phasing.

The answer to your question is contained in those to things working together.

Cheers,

[sucahyo]

The answer to your question is contained in those to things working together.

Thank you, but my question relate to what cause the difference of output. Both use coil collpase current to charge. Both circuit work at any range of frequency, maybe at any duty cycle too, and yet one hot charging and other cold charging.

Coil collapse current charging can produce hot charging and cold charging. I think the difference is the key everyone after...

[Harvey]

Thank you, but my question relate to what cause the difference of output. Both use coil collpase current to charge. Both circuit work at any range of frequency, maybe at any duty cycle too, and yet one hot charging and other cold charging.

Coil collapse current charging can produce hot charging and cold charging. I think the difference is the key everyone after...

Sorry I did not get back here - I did forget this thread for a while

Without all of the specifics regarding your application I could only give general causes for your events but I assure you these events or within the framework of known science.

There are several factors that do come to mind that may be related to your results:

Joule Heating

Flux Walking (See pg. 4-6)

Capacitor Power Dissipation (See Equation Six)

Dielectric Heating

dI/dt and Transconductance

and just about any factor of voltage, current or frequency that can result in a variable resistance in the materials conducting or inducting the energy involved.

So while it may seem strange to some that a sine wave passing through a MOSFET at the same current produces way more heat in the device compared to a square wave, it really is expected because of how the resistance (or conductance) of the device behaves in linear modes.

Consider that the electrolytes in batteries can behave in similar ways. There is a firm reason why car batteries have ratings with "Cold" Cranking Amps.

So it stands to reason the inverse is true as well.

Hope this helps

[sucahyo]

Thank you. Thanks for the link too.

Unfortunately the document do not explain why 400mA out of radiant oscillator do not heat up battery and yet 400mA out of DC charger heat the battery considerably. My radiant circuit use FWBR, and I suspect the output should be closer to stable DC then pulsed DC because after the spike passing by the conventional DC stepped in.

I just remembered my experiment that putting capacitor in parallel with charged battery will change cold charging to hot charging even with less charging current. reconfirm this again just now. The equation 5 describe capacitor dissipation and yet I observe heat at the battery instead?


Is there dielectric cooling?


BTW, is it normal for 1.5Amp current to melt the coil enamel while at the same time charging a battery?


In Radiant circuit an increase of input current may increase both output voltage and output current.





How do you measure COP of an SLA? case:
YouTube - 2 minutes charging for 3 minutes of power

[Joit]

[Harvey]

Hi Joit,

Thanks for the post - sorry for the delay in response, things have been a bit busy in other respects.

Let us take your example of a grid charged to a certain voltage. The entire grid equally distributes the charge over its surface and if it is shaped as a sphere, all of the charge will be outside. The surface normalssurface normal' and the Magnetic Vector B.

That is step one,

Then we use Φm to become ΦB in this formula:


Which states that the EMF = Number of Coil Turns Times the change in magnetic flux divided by the change in time.

Faraday's law of induction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia for more information on this.

I have not read JBignes5 Crystal Theory so I cannot comment on it.

I hope I answered your questions

[Joit]

Hi Joit,

Thanks for the post - sorry for the delay in response, things have been a bit busy in other respects.

Ack i hate it when it happens, but my PC turned off, as i had 3/4 from the Answer,
but short again,
Well Np, when it takes a while, i dont have the Time also all time.
Here is the Post from Jbignes5
I agree that the Charge, or Static field at a surface will build up like a Sphere
But anyhow it looks like, this pattern, what are build there are made with interaction with the Enviroment, or from the Current,what runs through the Coil, or both.
Interesting, that Glass seems to hold the charge better then other Metals.
At the German page is another Picture from the Crystals

[Angelinabv]

HI.

There is one truth in physics and that is that it is essentially simple. I have found that the more 'obtuse' a presentation becomes, the more flawed it is. These threads are read by contributors who 'grapple' with concepts of physics - first assuming that it is complex. It is NOT. I think one should limit one's observations to facts. And it is possibly harmful to misrepresent physics at all. Nowhere in or out of mainstream - is there any evidence that a neutron could 'absorb' an electron.

Power Plant Developers

[Harvey]

HI.

There is one truth in physics and that is that it is essentially simple. I have found that the more 'obtuse' a presentation becomes, the more flawed it is. These threads are read by contributors who 'grapple' with concepts of physics - first assuming that it is complex. It is NOT. I think one should limit one's observations to facts. And it is possibly harmful to misrepresent physics at all. Nowhere in or out of mainstream - is there any evidence that a neutron could 'absorb' an electron. . .

I'm not sure where you thought you read anything here that alluded to a neutron absorbing an electron but there is some discussion here regarding Protons capturing electrons.

When a Proton captures and Electron the electrical charges cancel out and impact energy releases a Neutrino. What is left behind is an electrically neutral particle we call a Neutron.

See Electron capture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia for more information.

Cheers,

[Harvey]

Hi Joit,

I'm not sure where the discussion is heading with regards to crystals but I have always been fascinated with Carbon's ability to form so many structures with so many properties just by changing the temperature and pressure associated with the crystal growth process.

Here is a short link to one of the structures (A4) of transparent carbon:
The Diamond (A4) Crystal Structure

I have enjoyed the topic of crystallization my whole life but was especially exposed to it when employed by Crystal Specialties Inc. When I worked there, I had many conversations with the lead Scientistchange in flux opposite direction on the outside halfway between the poles than it is at the poles. So if your magnet field is pointing up at both poles, it will be pointing down on the sides at the equatorial line between the poles. And everywhere else it is on a constant change between these two directions depending on the distance along the path.

Imagine you have a special Zeppelin and it always lines up so that the nose tracks the magnetic B vector first and the tail follows the same path. You start off at Antartica on the magnetic pole and you look out your front window and see the constellations Octans and Mensa because the nose of your craft is pointing straight up! This is because the geological South Pole is really a North Pole magnet . So you hit your thrusters and off you go and your craft begins a journey where it gets more and more horizontal so that when you are near the equator your craft is level. But as you approach the North Pole, the nose of your craft begins to dip down at the earth and eventually, at the magnetic pole, you are looking at the ground through your front window.

Ok, that was a simple trip on a very big magnet, but they are all like that, big or small. The only thing that makes it very different is the ratio between the pole separation distance (thickness or length of the magnet) and the diameter at the equator (width or diameter of the magnet). This ratio governs the elliptical nature of the magnet toroid field and that is a subject for another thread.

[Joit]

Hi Joit,

I'm not sure where the discussion is heading with regards to crystals but I have always been fascinated with Carbon's ability to form so many structures with so many properties just by changing the temperature and pressure associated with the crystal growth process.

Hi Harvey, good that you are still back, dont play with the Girls, when they are only nasty.

And sorry for delay, i am mostly lazy, when i will have to make Videos,
But here you got it. Video