NO ELECTROLYSIS water split

[wojwrobel]

hello

Patent US4427512
and

http://sdch2o.free.fr/vrac/GB%202.324.307A%20R.Eccles.pdf

thease two explains it all

cheers from poland
wojsciech

[lamare]

Very interesting, indeed. It shows that water can be split using an electric field only.

However, one does not necessarily need to place the capacitor plates outside of the water in order to insulate the capacitor plates. One can make sure there are insulating layers on the capacitor plates (pipes) themselves:

http://www.panaceauniversity.org/Ravi%20Cell.pdf

"Electrode conditioning helps by providing an appropriate insulating layer on the electrodes and that helps to lower useless current leakage through the water. You can see the confirmation of non conductivity of the layer formed. The white insulating coating formed during conditioning is non conductive in between the tubes (pipe gap) so you need to take it for granted that the process is basically dielectric breakdown of the bonds. The initial conditioning is very important. Ravi recommends to only using the following process described."


It appears that when an insulating layer is formed/added that has the right dielectric features, that it is possible to create a non-permanent electret inside a capacitor due to the so-called "dielectric relaxation" effect, which would mean that you have an electric field in between the capacitor plates which is provided for free by the dielectricum:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/4910-spontaneous-charging-radiantly-charged-capacitor-research-group-4.html#post76208

"Now, it appears logical that when the capacitor is charged with high voltage pulses, you perhaps somehow "super polarize" the dielectric. That would mean you can enhance this "dielectric relaxation" effect to such an extent that you practically create a non-permanent electret, that keeps alive much longer then a few microseconds, perhaps up to minutes or even hours.

If that is the case, you could come up with a system that feeds "spikes" to the cap in order to maintain that non-permanent electret effect for a prolonged period of time, while only taking a minimal amount of energy to maintain the electret."

In other words: the energy source used by Meyer is one and the same as the energy source used by Bedini in his batteries....

[boguslaw]

To get huge voltage without current you need original Tesla coil with extra coil. THAT WAS choke coil Stanley Meyer mentioned !

[wojwrobel]

not neccesery for tesla coil, CRT monitor or big old tv flyback will do the trick 20-40 vdc pulses will give you 30+kv and most of this flyback have hv diodes build in already!!!!

my idea is to use two flyback to switch polarities just like in patent GB 2.324.307

anyway there is a way and we sould check it out !!!!!!!!!!

Meyer ... well he was (as i can see from lectures video) obsest about someboody stealing his invention so his patent will be and is very dificult to replicate but there are others that did it the same way so if you want to replicate water sparkplug see this patent US7198208 its very detailed how it works...

cheers from poland
wojsciech

[Aaron]

Tay Hee Han

I already built Tay Hee Han's patent last summer (2008). I never posted
pics or even mentioned it online before. I coated the plates with
SUPER CORONA DOPE... a xylene mix that is specifically used as
a dielectric insulator for electrical applications.

It did not do what I wanted. According to someone, it really
needed barium titanate plates to give results like Tay Hee Han
claimed.

There were some French experimenters that were mentioning
Tay Hee Han at the same time they were doing Eccles experiments.
I'm familiar with all these patents and have done some of the
experiments. So far, I had best results with t304 stainless steel
tubes getting coated with magnesium or calcium from the water
to act as a dielectric.

[lamare]

I already built Tay Hee Han's patent last summer (2008). I never posted
pics or even mentioned it online before. I coated the plates with
SUPER CORONA DOPE... a xylene mix that is specifically used as
a dielectric insulator for electrical applications.

It did not do what I wanted. According to someone, it really
needed barium titanate plates to give results like Tay Hee Han
claimed.

If the energy source indeed is to be found in the dielectric relaxation effect, then the most important parameter to consider for your coating would be the "dielectric constant", the insulation properties and/or the dielectric strength (breakdown) are much less important....
Beside the "dielectric constant", which says something about the strength of the polarization we can induce in the material, we also need some info about how long this effect lasts once the voltage/field is removed. If a material can be easily polarized, it may also loose its polarization very fast.....


I haven't been able to find a dielectric constant for this super corona dope, suggesting that may be very low..... However, I could find one for the non-super corona dope:

MyPHPblog for Industrial Electronics Corp.
RED-X Corona Dope #GC-10-5002 RED-X Corona Dope 2 oz. Liquid
Thixotropic polyester-base red enamel that will not drip or sag. Excellent adhesion and insulator. Oil and water-proof, for high voltage coils, components, transformers, rotor and field coils in motors. Up to 220°F (104°C) Dielectric properties (1,700 Volts/Mil Min) Dielectric constant 3.7.

Here are some dielectric constants for some general materials:
Dielectrics - The Physics Hypertextbook

lead magnesium niobate - 10,000 (!)
lead titanate - 200
calcium carbonate - 8.7
glass - 4 - 7
epoxy - 3.6

This "lead magnesium niobate" is being used, as can be expected, in ceramic capacitors:
Electroceramics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Dielectric materials used for construction of ceramic capacitors include: zirconium barium titanate, strontium titanate (ST), calcium titanate (CT), magnesium titanate (MT), calcium magnesium titanate (CMT), zinc titanate (ZT), lanthanum titanate (TLT), and neodymium titanate (TNT), barium zirconate (BZ), calcium zirconate (CZ), lead magnesium niobate (PMN), lead zinc niobate (PZN), lithium niobate (LN), barium stannate (BS), calcium stannate (CS), magnesium aluminium silicate, magnesium silicate, barium tantalate, titanium dioxide, niobium oxide, zirconia, silica, sapphire, beryllium oxide, and zirconium tin titanate

Some piezoelectric materials can be used as well; the EIA Class 2 dielectrics are based on mixtures rich on barium titanate. In turn, EIA Class 1 dielectrics contain little or no barium titanate."

All these materials are good candidates, because of their high dielectric constants.....


Here are some more constants mentioned:
Dielectric Constants Of Various Materials Table
Barium Titanate 100 - 1250
Titanium Dioxide 100

Note the highe dielectric constant of Barium Titanate......

And here are much more:

http://www.asiinstr.com/technical/Dielectric%20Constants.htm

This article contains some info about high dielectric constant oxides for IC fabrication:

http://www.stanford.edu/class/ee311/NOTES/Robertson%20***04.pdf

[Aaron]

super corona dope

I don't remember the dielectric constant of the super corona dope but
it increases with baking in an oven, which I did not do. On 2 plates, there is a
total of a little over 2 mm thickness, which would hold back about 80,000.
It is about 4000 volts per mil.

[lamare]

It is about 4000 volts per mil.

Don't confuse the insulation properties with the dielectric constant!

The dielectric strength says something about how good an insulator it is. For Super Corona Dope, this is 4100 V / mil:
Super Corona Dope 55ML/2oz (4226-55ML)

The dielectric constant says something about the polarization of the dielectric, and that's what matters most.

The insulation properties are nice and somewhat important, because you don't want current leaking, but the energy source you want to utilize is the electric field created by a polarized dielectricum. And that's why that is the most important parameter.

However, you also want the polarization to be easy (fast) to establish and to last as long as possible, after you remove the polarizing field, because you want to induce the polarization with a spike and use the field caused by the polarization to extract energy once the spike is gone. At this moment, I can't say a thing about how this relates to the dielectric constant and other parameters.

[Aaron]

confusion?

I just told you I don't remember the dielectric constant.
Then, I told you the insulation properties. I don't believe
I'm confused about anything.

[lamare]

I just told you I don't remember the dielectric constant.
Then, I told you the insulation properties. I don't believe
I'm confused about anything.

Sorry I misunderstood then.

[wojwrobel]

bla bla bla

i thought this forum is different !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


but its not

its my last post here god bye

cheers from poland

wojsciech

[powerme]

it works

Just for the record, this does work. You can now buy samples of Lead magnesium niobium oxide in PMN ceramic or the powder (PbO)3(MgO)(Nb2O5) from most suppliers.

This dielectric also makes a super electrostatic influence cylinder generator.

[powerme]

bla bla bla

i thought this forum is different !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


but its not

its my last post here god bye

cheers from poland

wojsciech

I feel ya, I only come here for entertainment.

[retrod]

Just for the record, this does work. You can now buy samples of Lead magnesium niobium oxide in PMN ceramic or the powder (PbO)3(MgO)(Nb2O5) from most suppliers.

This dielectric also makes a super electrostatic influence cylinder generator.

Interesting. If one were to obtain the powder, what would be a safe and sane method of applying it, say to an electrode ?

RD

[powerme]

Research tinkering

Interesting. If one were to obtain the powder, what would be a safe and sane method of applying it, say to an electrode ?

RD

I suppose that you aree already qualified in the field, after all, aren't we doing R&D. I cast and sinter most parts that I need, or you can apply the powder as a baked coating.

Good Day.