Joulethief SEC exciter and variants

[slayer007]

@Jonny & All
I have been working on the Joule Thief lately and specifically, secondary windings on the toroid. I stumbled on something like you did here and made a video of it. I don't have the circuit finalized so I will not post it but basically I am using Doc's towers with a pure JT circuit to transmit power down one wire. I appears to me be an energy coherence event.

YouTube - Joule Thief acting like a SEC.ASF

Cheers,

Lidmotor

Excellent video Lidmotor.

When you get the chance can you please post a circuit.

[redrichie]

Very neat. Funny that I was just talking about the towers to my lab buddy and saying that I bet the JT would work with these somehow. But I didnt have any experience with the SEC except for what I have started reading in the thread. So i asked Johnny about the towers and a plasma globe. Im guessing it would work just as well. Is wireless power safe? I guess I could start a new thread for that, since this one is very valuable and dont get off track.

[CosmicFarmer]

@redriche
Would that be some 100 monkey's phenomenon going on? maybe this is already in collective consciousness already?

[Lidmotor]

Joule Thief ---with tunable coil

@All
I made a tunable inductor today like we used on the SEC-15 only with three windings. It made a very interesting addition to a standard JT circuit. The first two windings on the tube (part of a Bic ball point pen) ran the circuit and the HV winding ran a SEC tower with 27 LEDs in series. This all happened using one AA drawing about 50 mA. The ferrite sulg was out of the tunable inductor on my SEC-15.
The tower attached to one end of the HV coil. The other end of the HV coil went the collector. At the tower I ran a clip lead from the negative leg of the AV plug to either an earth ground or back to the circuit board pot case. Why the pot case? I don't know. It just worked there. Here is the video:

YouTube - Joule Thief-- with tunable coil.ASF


@ Slayer
The circuit isn't ready yet to be posted. I'm still playing with it. You could probably put it together though from what I have explained and if it doesn't go then give me a holler.

Lidmotor

[slayer007]

@All
I made a tunable inductor today like we used on the SEC-15 only with three windings. It made a very interesting addition to a standard JT circuit. The first two windings on the tube (part of a Bic ball point pen) ran the circuit and the HV winding ran a SEC tower with 27 LEDs in series. This all happened using one AA drawing about 50 mA. The ferrite sulg was out of the tunable inductor on my SEC-15.
The tower attached to one end of the HV coil. The other end of the HV coil went the collector. At the tower I ran a clip lead from the negative leg of the AV plug to either an earth ground or back to the circuit board pot case. Why the pot case? I don't know. It just worked there. Here is the video:

YouTube - Joule Thief-- with tunable coil.ASF


@ Slayer
The circuit isn't ready yet to be posted. I'm still playing with it. You could probably put it together though from what I have explained and if it doesn't go then give me a holler.

Lidmotor

Great Video

This looks like a must try Lidmotor.

Thanks you.

[Lidmotor]

Ferrite rod at Radio Shack

Great Video

This looks like a must try Lidmotor.

Thanks you.

@All
This is a link to where I can get small ferrite rods in a hurry (no waiting for the mail). Radio Shack sells these inductors for $1.39. Strip the wire off and just use the core. On some of my last inductors I just wrapped a piece of index card paper around the core (one layer) and taped it to make the coil tube. This seem to make a better tube than the "Bic" pen plastic tube because it is thinner.
100 µH RF Choke - RadioShack.com

Happy Thanksgiving

Lidmotor

[jonnydavro]

@Lidmotor.Great idea with the tuneabe coilHave you have tried this with just 1.5v or have you tried it with higher voltages to see if you can get it to go wireless?Also have you tried your jeanna torroid on your previous setup with the joulethief and smaller torroid?I would be interested to know how that performs.Regards jonny

[Lidmotor]

Tunable coil configurations

@Lidmotor.Great idea with the tuneabe coilHave you have tried this with just 1.5v or have you tried it with higher voltages to see if you can get it to go wireless?Also have you tried your jeanna torroid on your previous setup with the joulethief and smaller torroid?I would be interested to know how that performs.Regards jonny

Jonny----
Yes I have tried all kinds of things with this little tunable coil and yes you can up the voltage on it to a certain point then things start getting hot. I was trying to light a CFL but the coil is built wrong for that and the voltage would not go high enough. Jeanna's big toroid worked much better for that. That big toriod is now safely built into a box so that I don't play with it any more. I wanted to preserve that project permanently because it was so successful. I hear that the supplier of those 3 1/4" ferrite cores is out of them and will not be getting any more. I have done alot of work with smaller toroids and Slayer's 2" one (that he found on EBay) is what I made my "Halo Light" with.
As far as going wireless with this circuit is concerned, I am getting some effect but nothing like what the SEC produces.
If you get a chance Google --Joule Thief---and look into the story about it. They call it a "switched mode converter" or "boost converter" and there has been much work done on it. Wikipedia is a good place to start.
I don't mind reinventing the wheel as long as it is fun and I learn something new.

Lidmotor

[CosmicFarmer]

I have obtained full wireless coherence with a cute top load. A jingle bell!



I wrapped a copper strip around under it to act as a bottom load or mass. Works Well!

Try this video if its working YouTube - SEClab

[morpher44]

SEC &/or Joule Thief Sticky Lights

I had this interesting idea -- challenge -- to pass along.

There is this fad called "LED Sticky Lights" or "LED Throwie".
Graffiti Research Lab » LED Throwies
Search for that on youtube.

Wouldn't it be interesting to develop a sort of LED sticky light
with magnet and LED ... and perhaps coil only ... NO expensive battery ...
and then to power ALL your LED sticky lights from
either a SEC and/or Joule Thief transmitting wireless tower?

Imagine throwing your LEDs all over some wall -- a sort
of technological graffiti, and then powering them using wireless power.
Such an approach might bring down the cost of making these
sticky lights.

I challenge you techno-light-hackers out there to put this together
and get it working for massive replication!!!
This form of graffiti might help to awaken the inventors in us all.

[amigo]

@Jonny & All
I have been working on the Joule Thief lately and specifically, secondary windings on the toroid. I stumbled on something like you did here and made a video of it. I don't have the circuit finalized so I will not post it but basically I am using Doc's towers with a pure JT circuit to transmit power down one wire. I appears to me be an energy coherence event.

YouTube - Joule Thief acting like a SEC.ASF

Cheers,

Lidmotor

Hi Lidmotor,

I was just wondering, at 3:58 you said that by touching (the tower?) you add your capacitance to the circuit and the LEDs light brighter.

Have you followed up on that statement, as it appears to me that it is obvious you should increase the capacitance of the circuit there to brighten the LEDs up. Perhaps add another set of metal cups (no coil) or a larger cups?

Just thinking out loud...

[morpher44]

adding capacitance --- NOT!!!

Hi Lidmotor,

I was just wondering, at 3:58 you said that by touching (the tower?) you add your capacitance to the circuit and the LEDs light brighter.

Have you followed up on that statement, as it appears to me that it is obvious you should increase the capacitance of the circuit there to brighten the LEDs up. Perhaps add another set of metal cups (no coil) or a larger cups?

Just thinking out loud...

I pulled out my Aromaz circuit the other night and was messing
around with it to light CFLs.
The other night it was working excellently.
However, last night ... no oscillations ... no mater what I tried.
Its as if the room temperature, combined with a slightly
differently physical placement of the wires on the table, etc.
prevented it from oscillating.
Aramoz's circuit is another self-oscillating approach starting
from a little NPN transistor.

Anyway, I fiddled around with it and found that when I touched
the POT, I could make it oscillate just fine ... Remove my hand,
no oscillations. This was so odd because the night before
it would self oscillate even w/o me being in the room.

After messing around with it a bit more, I saw what was occurring
after a few experiments.

The BASE to the transistor is essentially the feedback path in
for regenerative oscillations. If that path is wired to wires
and metal masses that are NOT regenerative to the oscillations,
NADA ... ZIP. The coil gets nothing.

So, I connected a aluminum plate up to the base of the
transistor ... which was also pulled high via pull-up resistor.
If I touched this plate with my hand ... wonderful oscillations.
NO .. not because I'm adding capacitance ... but rather
because my BODY is a much better feedback path for
regenerative oscillations.

OK, I then moved that aluminum plate NEAR the
capacitive cylinder which was connected to the hot lead
of the ignition coil.
This cylinder capacitor is putting out HUGE electrostatic
oscillations ... easily picked up by the aluminum plate.
The plate is wired to the base of the transistor...
The transistor inverts the waveform ... the coil inverts it again ...
Therefore, we have regenerative feedback ... and away it goes.

So I think the key here is providing the proper sort of feedback path
for oscillation..
You can't just add capacitance ... since capacitance will PHASE
shift the waveform in various ways depending upon
the value of capacitance.
But a feedback path ... that is what is wanted!!!!

[jonnydavro]

Simple sec

@morpher44.Hi .I can confirm your experiments with the transistor base connected to a tray and putting the transistor into self oscilation as i saw this effect in my first experiment with the sec 15-3 and have looked into this further and can now see the sec effect with a circuit using only two components,a 4kv trigger transformer and a transistor.Mpsa06, bc182 or 2n2222 are the three ive tried and all work well but i would say the mpsa06 is the first choice.I tried to replace the trigger transformer with a 10uh and 22uh rf chokes but the transistor would not sustain oscillation.The trigger transformer specs requires 170v on the primary to achieve 4kv but i am using 12v so the output is not that high so i may try and make my own more suitable for a low input.
My circuit is just the transistor with the trigger transformer in series with the collector.The base goes to an aluminium tray and another tray is connected to the emmiter.This gives three hv outputs and the wireless field extends a fair way.Come to think of it,if you put another alu tray in series with the positive input you would get 4 hv outputs.The transistor goes into oscillation when i touch the base tray with my hand but you can also use a jumper wire and 100ohm resistor to start it off.
Here is a vid.
YouTube - Simple SEC
As a sidenote morpher,i would like to ask you a favour.Could you try your joulethief and ignition coil setup with some trays or towers and see if you can light some leds wirelessly as i don't have a coil to replicate your setup yet as i am thinking high voltage/frequency is a must for this.I will also have a look at your led throwies idea but can't view the website with my computer as it won't accept the quicktime pluggin but i think i know what you mean.Many thanks. jonny.

[DrStiffler]

@morpher44.Hi .I can confirm your experiments with the transistor base connected to a tray and putting the transistor into self oscilation as i saw this effect in my first experiment with the sec 15-3 and have looked into this further and can now see the sec effect with a circuit using only two components,a 4kv trigger transformer and a transistor.Mpsa06, bc182 or 2n2222 are the three ive tried and all work well but i would say the mpsa06 is the first choice.I tried to replace the trigger transformer with a 10uh and 22uh rf chokes but the transistor would not sustain oscillation.The trigger transformer specs requires 170v on the primary to achieve 4kv but i am using 12v so the output is not that high so i may try and make my own more suitable for a low input.
My circuit is just the transistor with the trigger transformer in series with the collector.The base goes to an aluminium tray and another tray is connected to the emmiter.This gives three hv outputs and the wireless field extends a fair way.Come to think of it,if you put another alu tray in series with the positive input you would get 4 hv outputs.The transistor goes into oscillation when i touch the base tray with my hand but you can also use a jumper wire and 100ohm resistor to start it off.
Here is a vid.
YouTube - Simple SEC
As a sidenote morpher,i would like to ask you a favour.Could you try your joulethief and ignition coil setup with some trays or towers and see if you can light some leds wirelessly as i don't have a coil to replicate your setup yet as i am thinking high voltage/frequency is a must for this.I will also have a look at your led throwies idea but can't view the website with my computer as it won't accept the quicktime pluggin but i think i know what you mean.Many thanks. jonny.

@jonnydavro

Would it be possible for you to try one simple experiment with the setup you show in this video? If these are the conditions you are under, the results will be very interesting to all.

You are powering the circuit from a battery that is not earth grounded. Your input current should be maybe 1mA at most, could be a bit higher, most likely uA's. The test is to connect a neon from your hot pan to earth ground via a wire not passing over or to near the circuit. Maybe cover the neon with some cotton or wool cloth and let it sit for a few minutes. If you have a temp gun open the cloth and shot the neon. Last resort would bundle a glass thermometer in with the neon.

Now the question is would you see heat? I think that would be a startling revelation to all.

[slayer007]

@morpher44.Hi .I can confirm your experiments with the transistor base connected to a tray and putting the transistor into self oscilation as i saw this effect in my first experiment with the sec 15-3 and have looked into this further and can now see the sec effect with a circuit using only two components,a 4kv trigger transformer and a transistor.Mpsa06, bc182 or 2n2222 are the three ive tried and all work well but i would say the mpsa06 is the first choice.I tried to replace the trigger transformer with a 10uh and 22uh rf chokes but the transistor would not sustain oscillation.The trigger transformer specs requires 170v on the primary to achieve 4kv but i am using 12v so the output is not that high so i may try and make my own more suitable for a low input.
My circuit is just the transistor with the trigger transformer in series with the collector.The base goes to an aluminium tray and another tray is connected to the emmiter.This gives three hv outputs and the wireless field extends a fair way.Come to think of it,if you put another alu tray in series with the positive input you would get 4 hv outputs.The transistor goes into oscillation when i touch the base tray with my hand but you can also use a jumper wire and 100ohm resistor to start it off.
Here is a vid.
YouTube - Simple SEC
As a sidenote morpher,i would like to ask you a favour.Could you try your joulethief and ignition coil setup with some trays or towers and see if you can light some leds wirelessly as i don't have a coil to replicate your setup yet as i am thinking high voltage/frequency is a must for this.I will also have a look at your led throwies idea but can't view the website with my computer as it won't accept the quicktime pluggin but i think i know what you mean.Many thanks. jonny.

Very Nice setup Jonny.

What is your input voltage and current draw?