Donald Smith Devices too good to be true

[Farmhand]

Yes I see it is, I went searching the Museum site for the scanned copy but I
can't find it. I think the tunnel vision is starting to get me. There are some
really
interesting old books and articles on that Museum website.
I did notice though that none of the books I looked at had a big "Over Unity"
printed on the cover.

That book is supposed to be there somewhere. It should be in English. If I find it
I'll link it.

Cheers

[nightwind]

Yes I see it is, I went searching the Museum site for the scanned copy but I
can't find it. I think the tunnel vision is starting to get me. There are some
really
interesting old books and articles on that Museum website.
I did notice though that none of the books I looked at had a big "Over Unity"
printed on the cover.

That book is supposed to be there somewhere. It should be in English. If I find it
I'll link it.

Cheers

If it had "Over Unity" Title... I doubt that it would be free anymore LOL. Thanks for your fast response.

[Farmhand]

Just kiddin about the Overunity. I had to be looking to notice.

Anyway I have a question and I couldn't think of a better place to ask it.

Does it matter what the input frequency is for CFL's ?

It looks to me as though the onboard circuitry just rectifies the AC input then
uses that DC to make HV AC for the tube with a small transformer and some
caps. Is that what happens ? If so I see no reason why I cant use higher
frequencies up to what the four little diodes can tolerate well enough.

It seems to work good using 280v AC at 30 to 40 Khz to light a 20 watt CFL
it's really bright. It is using over the 20 watts though. 12.5v @ 1.7 A = 21.25 watts,
although the transformer use 2 watts at idle.



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Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Which begs the question. If I use exactly 20 watts to power a 20 watt globe is that "Unity" ?
Or do I have to get back what I use to achieve "Unity" ?

Lots brighter at 280v than normal though, probably because my grid power is
only 220 volts and less mostly, bad grid here, we have fluctuating low
voltage, the power company admits it is below standard and will upgrade
when they get a chance. I know I can light a few lights and appliances better
than their power can. But I want more of course.

The power from the wall is not even as good as what my store bought 60 Hz
sine wave inverters make, stuff runs a lot better from the inverters.

Cheers

[Duncan]

for consideration

Yes I see it is, I went searching the Museum site for the scanned copy but I
can't find it. I think the tunnel vision is starting to get me. There are some
really
interesting old books and articles on that Museum website.
I did notice though that none of the books I looked at had a big "Over Unity"
printed on the cover.

That book is supposed to be there somewhere. It should be in English. If I find it
I'll link it.

Cheers

Hi Farmhand – for your info forum member Jules Tresor has obtained an original copy of this book
as indicated in this post http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post100031 I would think that if approached with a kindly request he may be prepared to post the relevant page that is of interest to you. I understand he is busy translating into English prior to scanning.
Jules also informs that the information cited by Don Smith is available see his post here http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post100219 Hope the information proves useful
Best wishes D

[mr.clean]

d'arsonval translation

Hi Farmhand – for your info forum member Jules Tresor has obtained an original copy of this book
as indicated in this post http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post100031 I would think that if approached with a kindly request he may be prepared to post the relevant page that is of interest to you. I understand he is busy translating into English prior to scanning.
Jules also informs that the information cited by Don Smith is available see his post here http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post100219 Hope the information proves useful
Best wishes D

I SPEAK FRENCH, if the pic is posted i can translate no prob

Last nite experimenting with my new driver, i stumbled on the "building-wave-form" !!!!!!
if anyones interested...

Don Smith Device Project Part 19: New Driver with Resonant Building Wave-Form on L1 Tank Circuit - YouTube

[mr.clean]

d'arsonval translation

Hi Farmhand – for your info forum member Jules Tresor has obtained an original copy of this book
as indicated in this post http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post100031 I would think that if approached with a kindly request he may be prepared to post the relevant page that is of interest to you. I understand he is busy translating into English prior to scanning.
Jules also informs that the information cited by Don Smith is available see his post here http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post100219 Hope the information proves useful
Best wishes D

I SPEAK FRENCH, if the pic is posted i can translate no prob

Last nite experimenting with my new driver, i stumbled on the "building-wave-form" !!!!!!
if anyones interested...

Don Smith Device Project Part 19: New Driver with Resonant Building Wave-Form on L1 Tank Circuit - YouTube

[nightwind]

I SPEAK FRENCH, if the pic is posted i can translate no prob

Last nite experimenting with my new driver, i stumbled on the "building-wave-form" !!!!!!
if anyones interested...

Don Smith Device Project Part 19: New Driver with Resonant Building Wave-Form on L1 Tank Circuit - YouTube

That's great, explain how you did it or show schematic. Does it show any OU characteristics or gain?

[boguslaw]

I SPEAK FRENCH, if the pic is posted i can translate no prob

Last nite experimenting with my new driver, i stumbled on the "building-wave-form" !!!!!!
if anyones interested...

Don Smith Device Project Part 19: New Driver with Resonant Building Wave-Form on L1 Tank Circuit - YouTube

HOW did you do that ? That's important step to OU, let us know

[nightwind]

@ Zilano

What type of waveform characteristic does your home generator produce? Is your voltage and current out of phase by 90 degrees as shown in the Don's overhead slide presentation? Thanks

[JohnStone]

Just kiddin about the Overunity. I had to be looking to notice.

Anyway I have a question and I couldn't think of a better place to ask it.

Does it matter what the input frequency is for CFL's ?

It looks to me as though the onboard circuitry just rectifies the AC input then
uses that DC to make HV AC for the tube with a small transformer and some
caps. Is that what happens ? If so I see no reason why I cant use higher
frequencies up to what the four little diodes can tolerate well enough.

It seems to work good using 280v AC at 30 to 40 Khz to light a 20 watt CFL
it's really bright. It is using over the 20 watts though. 12.5v @ 1.7 A = 21.25 watts,
although the transformer use 2 watts at idle.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Which begs the question. If I use exactly 20 watts to power a 20 watt globe is that "Unity" ?
Or do I have to get back what I use to achieve "Unity" ?

Lots brighter at 280v than normal though, probably because my grid power is
only 220 volts and less mostly, bad grid here, we have fluctuating low
voltage, the power company admits it is below standard and will upgrade
when they get a chance. I know I can light a few lights and appliances better
than their power can. But I want more of course.

The power from the wall is not even as good as what my store bought 60 Hz
sine wave inverters make, stuff runs a lot better from the inverters.

Cheers

An incandescent bulb performs with an efficiency of about 1.5%- real light.
A CFL is about 5 times better. So compute 7.5 % real light.
If you use a 20W CFL you get 7.5% out of 20W input ->pure light = 1.5 W.
You use no lossy electronics but the cfl heats itself. Let's say 3W.
So OU will begin at about input power less 4.5W.

I measured my new bought CFLs with a Lux meter (foto exposure meter possible as well) between 200V and 240V in cold and warm state. The repeatable setup is quite simple: bulb in a tube 2" by 20" covered with Al foil inside. So I have a reference if I use them later onafter dismantling next days.

Some types are compensatet (phi=1.0) others not at all (phi=0.5). A 20 W type produced about 55000 LUX max (warm & 240V 50Hz)

rgsd John

[Farmhand]

Thanks John, I will have to read that a few times and have a think about it.
It is interesting to think about, the lights do get quite warm, all kinds, The 20w
CFL gives more light with 20w than the 25 watt incandescent or 25 watt
halogen do with 25 watts. I must buy some of those 110-220v LED lamps to
compare light output with.

Thanks again.

[mr.clean]

That's great, explain how you did it or show schematic. Does it show any OU characteristics or gain?

HOW did you do that ? That's important step to OU, let us know

Sorry for waiting so long to get back, i really am in need of my Velleman scope to find freq right now.
This old clunker scope is on its last days.

But anyway...havent hooked up my secondary yet to read while driving the primary, but I'll make another vid soon when it's all hooked up.

--this one guy pointed out that i had it inverted, it looks even cooler right side up! lol

Im aiming for a freq between AM an FM, for obvious reasons, the values look really nice for 226.9khz or so. i will tell my exact values later.

Still short on some caps for L2, but i'll make due. exact values of inductance are yet to be established, but im planning to match L in turns to the caps i have available.

I guess the effect of building up, IN THIS CASE was a result of series and paralel RLC resonance, I will show another vid with it all hooked up, but it looks like the cap building up is the RISE
and it reaches full charge then starts over...

...so rather than being full, then decaying, decaying, decaying...
...it builds, builds, builds

THAT IS WHAT LOGICALLY GIVES THE GAIN... JUST LIKE THE OLD SWING EXAMPLE...
...you DID NOT get MORE swing by the... releasing, releasing, releasing...
...you got it by THE PUSHING, PUSHING, PUSHING....
And JUST at the right time, or the pushes (square wave pulses) are wasted
...(pulse driver timing..no prob right

Freq and spark distance had very different effects, so its hard to say precicely at the moment what is best.

From the one Hv terminal i have the spark in SERIES with L1, then the air cap is parallel with the HV outputs. Not exactly right, but in that vid L is 1.6 uH an air cap was maxed at .33 nf
Freq in that vid is roughly 50khz...im guessing, but it could just be the connections, series R and L, with C parallel to the HV out terminals.
WHICH IS DONS, its hard to see but the spark is a series to L with paralel C
From my signal gen pin 2 & 6 I have a 470pf cap with resistance of 100k, so 2 or 3 of those caps in SERIES will put me at 226khz comfortably without being maxed at the dials.. anyway..
And bingo.... building/rising wave form
(hours go by)
...OK DONE BUILDING the Tanks for L1 and L2, check out this wicked symetrical resonance...

Don Smith Device Project Part 19 C: New Driver with L1 and L2 Tank Circuits Complete - YouTube

[boguslaw]

Sorry for waiting so long to get back, i really am in need of my Velleman scope to find freq right now.
This old clunker scope is on its last days.

But anyway...havent hooked up my secondary yet to read while driving the primary, but I'll make another vid soon when it's all hooked up.

--this one guy pointed out that i had it inverted, it looks even cooler right side up! lol

Im aiming for a freq between AM an FM, for obvious reasons, the values look really nice for 226.9khz or so. i will tell my exact values later.

Still short on some caps for L2, but i'll make due. exact values of inductance are yet to be established, but im planning to match L in turns to the caps i have available.

I guess the effect of building up, IN THIS CASE was a result of series and paralel RLC resonance, I will show another vid with it all hooked up, but it looks like the cap building up is the RISE
and it reaches full charge then starts over...

...so rather than being full, then decaying, decaying, decaying...
...it builds, builds, builds

THAT IS WHAT LOGICALLY GIVES THE GAIN... JUST LIKE THE OLD SWING EXAMPLE...
...you DID NOT get MORE swing by the... releasing, releasing, releasing...
...you got it by THE PUSHING, PUSHING, PUSHING....
And JUST at the right time, or the pushes (square wave pulses) are wasted
...(pulse driver timing..no prob right

Freq and spark distance had very different effects, so its hard to say precicely at the moment what is best.

From the one Hv terminal i have the spark in SERIES with L1, then the air cap is parallel with the HV outputs. Not exactly right, but in that vid L is 1.6 uH an air cap was maxed at .33 nf
Freq in that vid is roughly 50khz...im guessing, but it could just be the connections, series R and L, with C parallel to the HV out terminals.
WHICH IS DONS, its hard to see but the spark is a series to L with paralel C
From my signal gen pin 2 & 6 I have a 470pf cap with resistance of 100k, so 2 or 3 of those caps in SERIES will put me at 226khz comfortably without being maxed at the dials.. anyway..
And bingo.... building/rising wave form
(hours go by)
...OK DONE BUILDING the Tanks for L1 and L2, check out this wicked symetrical resonance...

Don Smith Device Project Part 19 C: New Driver with L1 and L2 Tank Circuits Complete - YouTube

Extremally IMPORTANT INFO !
That must be completed with schematic and digested slowly , as this is the missing puzzle I think. Thank You !

Schematic please ??

[Dave45]

Awesome
schematic ?

[nightwind]

Scope shots

THAT IS WHAT LOGICALLY GIVES THE GAIN... JUST LIKE THE OLD SWING EXAMPLE...
...you DID NOT get MORE swing by the... releasing, releasing, releasing...
...you got it by THE PUSHING, PUSHING, PUSHING....
And JUST at the right time, or the pushes (square wave pulses) are wasted
...(pulse driver timing..no prob right

Freq and spark distance had very different effects, so its hard to say precicely at the moment what is best.

[/url]

Mr. C, ...well done vid. Have questions about your scope shots: what is the starting value of the waveform and its ending value? I realize it probably won't be accurate, but it would be nice know the multiplier value. How long is the cycle before it starts again? Is it the same frequency as your square wave input? Thanks