The case against Over Unity

[Joit]

Otto,
vibrating like singing ?
But i dont think so, he pulse them, and its a short time, when its under Current.
I dont think, much did see one of his Devices close, the one what do build it here
just build after Plans, not after a personal instruction.

But mainly i would say no, that what i ve seen from his Coils

[Otto-]

Hello all,

@Joit,

no singing. Im talking about a real vibration where the vibration signal is of a lower frequency then the original input signal that causes the vibration.

Yes, Bedinis motors are vibration motors because of the rotor. Thanks for the link.

Otto

[sucahyo]

You have to be able to identify and "measure" the energy source before being able to harness it. Zero point energy sounds great, but how the hell do you quantify it, let alone use it?

This remind me. Don't people utilize it first and measure it later? wheel, electricity, combustion engine, nuclear, gun, capacitor, diode, lamp, etc?

And how if it only measurable by human and can not be measured by device? Like effect of cavity structure effect, or aura, or tesla radiant sting etc?

[theremart]

The problems is...

If JB and Rick are not producing Ou (or whatever they want to call it) why are they selling this
Large Bedini 10 Pole Monopole.
$3800 10 Pole Monopole (International shipping included)
Truth In Heart CREDIT CARD ORDERING CENTER
Rick does not issue any figures but he claims stuff like 1.2Kw from 12volts. No current drawn given.
There must be some truth in this
I recon we will only find out if we order one!!
Then there is still the question: Are the batteries going to last or be destroyed in a short time?

If you don't get OU it is your problem.... I can see it now you did not setup the device right.... you did not pinch the magic fairy dust....

I have seen the tech support from Rick and it is less that friendly when it comes to these experimental devices. Now they do good support for the commercial versions. But I would advise let someone with big $ buy one and see if it does anything. Or if this is another selling of the Bedini idea but not the real thing of 2 batteries from one.

It is well pointed out that to achieve batteries that are "conditioned" may take months of time or..... a purchase of a rejuvinator to achieve this in weeks.

For a good test you would need.

1. Interstate batteries matching the capacity of the machine.

2. A machine built by Rick or Bedini so there is zero mistakes.

3. Well conditioned batteries, probably put on the Rejuvenator till the batteries reach max potential.

But this is just a dream....

[Inquorate]

The case against overunity; trumped

Let there be light

YouTube - sec exciter energy gain (NOT RF)

[Shamus]

Let there be light

YouTube - sec exciter energy gain (NOT RF)

Agreed; I believe Dr. Stiffler has done it.

[baroutologos]

Ok perhaps I do answer this thread again!

Last week i have been studying an old magnificent book by Martin Thomas Commeford published by New york: The electrical engineer named "The inventions, researches and writings of Nikola Tesla".

This book presents in various sections the work of the scientist as well as the historic lectures he addressed in New York, London, Philadelphia and St. Louis.
This book admitedly was the source of inspiration for many OU apparatus inventors as Donald Smith.

..........
Every inventor of any electrical OU machine, in order to give legitimacy to it, claims that his/her work is based upon Nikola's Tesla work.
I went acrossed the book. I have spotted the famous phrases that Tesla uttered and the context of them.

I have not be able to find nowhere any claim of the inventor in this inspiration book, via the numerous Tesla experiments of his inconceivable genius that he supported he found a way of creating extra energy.

Correct me if i am wrong and give puplication, auhor and Tesla quote.

....
The famous and misused words spoked at London Lecture.

"...is quite possible, however, that such " no wire "
motors, as they might be called, could be operated by conduction through
the rarefied air at considerable distances. Alternate currents,
especially of high frequencies, pass with astonishing freedom
through even slightly rarefied gases. The upper strata of the air
are rarefied. To reach a number of miles out into space requires
the overcoming of difficulties of a merely mechanical nature.
There is no doubt that with the enormous potentials obtainable by
the use of high frequencies and oil insulation, luminous discharges
might be passed through many miles of rarefied air, and that, by
thus directing the energy of many hundreds or thousands of horsepower,
motors or lamps might be operated at considerable
distances from stationary sources. But such schemes are mentioned
merely as possibilities. We shall have no need to transmit
power in this way. We shall have no need to transmit power
at all. Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven
by a power obtainable at any point of the universe. This idea is
not novel. Men have been led to it long ago by instinct or reason.
It has been expressed in many ways, and in many places, in the
history of old and new. We find it in the delightful myth of
Antheus, who derives power from the earth ; we find it among
the subtle speculations of one of your splendid mathematicians,
and in many hints and statements of thinkers of the present time.
Throughout space there is energy. Is this energy static or kinetic ?
If static our hopes are in vain; if kinetic and this we know it
is, for certain then it is a mere question of time when men will
succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheelwork of
nature."

see at 235-236pp of the book.
So, Tesla recognizes that overunity or energy extarction from space (not from sun or wind or other conventional low energy output sources as we utilize them now) is possible.

From the ancient Greek myth of Antheus (the Titan that Hercules killed) till theoretical predictions overunity has been always "by instinct or reason" in people minds. (as mine)

The fact is Tesla set it in a frame of future generations with sophisticated Technology as this technology will enable it to happen.

.....
Concluding, I have not be able to locate a single puplication that re-states Tesla's words and explanations - as he used to give extensive technical as well as functional details of every machine he made - that supports he could achieve overunity in considerable quantites.

Radient energy utilization patent being excluded since it behaves a photovoltaic effect and bears much less energy production potential than plain photovoltaic arrays.

Pls if i am wrong correct me.

Baroutologos

[morpher44]

faulty conclusion....

Concluding, I have not be able to locate a single puplication that re-states Tesla's words and explanations - as he used to give extensive technical as well as functional details of every machine he made - that supports he could achieve overunity in considerable quantites.
Radient energy utilization patent being excluded since it behaves a photovoltaic effect and bears much less energy production potential than plain photovoltaic arrays.
Pls if i am wrong correct me.
Baroutologos

Take a look at the thread here called:
"Think i found some missing info from Tesla's radiant energy patent"

There is a discussion about how Tesla may have been very careful
not to give all the secrets to his OU ideas in one patent.
Remember, his lab was burned and Tesla had to become
a bit more careful and a bit more secretive after that occurred.
He was well aware that others who have come forward
with so called "free energy" or "perpetual motion" devices
met with great personal trouble and were unable to patent, etc.

So because you can't find a single publication or a single patent, etc.
is not a PROOF that it is impossible.

It is only a proof that it is impossible to patent or publish.
There is quite a lot of glaring HINTS that such technologies
have been suppressed.
In some cases MURDERs were done to suppress such inventions.
Greed and self interest was the reason that JP Morgan killed
Tesla's great accomplishment. This is a well documented story.
You only have to read a biography on Tesla to learn
that suppression is REAL.

Re: Radiant Energy
Tesla hints that the antenna must be properly shielded from
ground and stimulated with ionization.
He may have used evaporating salt water to do that. He had
barrels of the stuff .. and not necessarily for just salt water capacitors.
He describes his ANTENNA terminal lighting on fire and melting it in the sun.
His GROUND was HUGE. A giant plate installed in the ground and
buried deep and kept wet. This was an earth battery on steroids.

Tesla had a "fountain" patent ... that if you look at it carefully,
could have been deployed to pump salt water up an antenna pole
to provide a salt-water spray.

He had an interesting patent for a lightning rod. I don't think
he went to the trouble to create this patent just to BEST
Benjamin Franklin. I think he was giving away a very important
clue regarding GEOMETRIES ... which can be seen in
his tower design.

I think if you really want to get to the bottom of Tesla
Radiant Energy ... you have to study SEVERAL patents
and put the puzzle together.
He was a brilliant guy and he mentioned that he belongs
to the "FUTURE" ... which is a direct hint that he left
clues for the future for us to find.

If Tesla did cause the Tungusta event, would you consider
that over unity?
Also, would you think him so stupid as to publish a patent ...
or for the US patent office to be so stupid to allow such
a patent to be published.

I think with Tesla you have to think very very big. He was
not messing around with little toy motors or toy light bulbs
in his PRIME.

[baroutologos]

All conspiracists, arcanists and mysticists people are in constant search of clues and bind them together in an most interesting way so as to fuilfill their excitement and conspiracy needs.

Yes, Tesla had a disaster of his NY lab and naturally afterwards become more careful. No one can verify that Edison, Morgan or Illuminati burned down his shop so as not to disclose the FE secret.

There is a commonly accepted empiric law in science. Its Occam's razor. It goes that always the simpler explanation is the most probable.
Yet, am I being right or wrong, noone has come with evidence to the contrary. Especially with primitive style technology.
.....

I have read several Tesla's patents but nowhere make reference to radiant energy as Bedini et all express it. He was extensively involved with currents of extra high frequency (alternating or oscillating) and excessive voltages. The aim was to create great tensions. He has said that frequency alone is of no significance. Its the rate of change that matters.
Nowhere he is talking about radiant energy as an alternative energy to normal electricity. He talked about electricity in another form (HV HF)with different distinct attributes from the usual low freq low tensions as we know it.

By the way, in his theorizing he expressed the concept of ether as a continuous medium that when incorporated to matter produces the electric phenomena. (or when stressed)

If you have read anything regarding Tesla saying about radiant energy and dinstiction from normal electricity say publication and pp.

Baroutologos

[Matthew Jones]

All conspiracists, arcanists and mysticists people are in constant search of clues and bind them together in an most interesting way so as to fuilfill their excitement and conspiracy needs.

See here we are back again to the beginning "We are all a bunch of cooks" in so many words. LOL
Didn't you already do this? I thought you were going away?

So You don't believe because of your failed attempts, Sorry to hear that.

None of us are capable of delivering you a Self Powered Generating device, so according to you we are lying or being lied to.... So again I have to ask you...Whats the point of continuing.

Has your failure drove you to insanity, I mean how many times are you going to do this before you get it the fact the results aren't any different.

Your not changing anything here. Give it up or change the pattern.

Matt

[quantumuppercut]

He has said that frequency alone is of no significance. Its the rate of change that matters.

Baroutologos

I commend you on your energy research. Yes, many people get carried away with free energy and forget to keep their open mind. An open minded person always set himself at neutral no matter what.

I can name 1 device exist today that is overunity. A nuclear reactor.
Tesla patent on his radiant energy is the same as a solar cell. Eistein said it's photon hitting the plate, Tesla said it's electrified particles hitting the plate. Aren't those two lines describing the same thing? Why don't we merge it as one?

So...there is nothing the free energy people doing that the current world has not done yet. The different is the interpretation of experiments which could lead to break though in technology. I like your lines above and quote it. I think if you understand that line, you will understand that there is no such thing as free energy, only smart energy.

[baroutologos]

Yes quantumppercut, you are absolutely right. A nuclear reactor is infact a huge OU machine of enormous potential.

Yes, keeping a neutral attitude towards ou is essential, but my passion driven from instict rather logic propels me to believe that OU is even possible with more modest means than a nuclear reactor setup.

...........

@Mathew jones, your responce is for LOL at least. I constructed my arguments stated before based upon study with original documents that describe Tesla teachings, yet you blame me for being angry for not having OU.

Yes, i am angry! From a bunch of "gosus" that claim they have found Amalthea's horn and they do not share it. This forum works upon a share basis. If you have achieved anything at all and do not share it, WTF are you doing here in first place? Are you blaming oil cartels, yet do not say to fellow experiemters any detail that maybe lead us to a possitive conclusion?

By the way, i am gonna pursue such a purpose from a hobby perspective not to mention the pleasure that fellow co-experiemnters give me.

My answers to gosus that do not speak amyway is... "get lost noobs"

Respectfully,
Baroutologos

[Matthew Jones]

Well I can't speak for why they claim anything. Only me, thats all I speak for.

I have attempted to give you tip and tricks that have worked for me yet you belittle them as benign and stupid.

From this thread http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...html#post61109

Micrometer? LoL? It sounds nuclear science to me.
Man i am overconfident that minor deviations does not alter a thing...
Those who claim micrometer matters is about to derail valid attempts.
By the way did you achieved OU?

And that is just one time, not counting the other post I have read where you attempt to belittle people for making suggestions.

"Gosus" - "To be Godlike" Doesn't describe anybody here as far as I am concerned. What do you want? You want it handed to you on a silver platter.
A kit?

I share as much as I can. But some things I don't answers for. It doesn't mean whats happening doesn't work it just means I can't explain it. And why should I share something I don't fully understand. So you can attempt duplicate it and call me lier when it does not work for you.
Please....

And while were on it, what have you shared?

See I went back and read your posts to see. I didn't see anything outside of Monopole work. And didn't read recently that you have been working tirelessly for 2 years on monopoles. This thread isn't 2 years old.

http://www.energeticforum.com/new-members-area/4096-just-say-hello.html

Where were you in the monopole groups? Where?

So what is it you want? Other than your so called self power miracle device what would satisfy you and get you on a good start again. I'm willing to help. Name IT!!!
I got a good plan for a good Tesla Switch. That works for me.
I have an easier step up voltage transformer that also generates and recollects the energy. Outputs 150% of what is put it and can run on high voltage.
Do you want info on magnetic Arrays that may or may not lead you to a self sustained PM motor? At minimum show you how to get more power with less cost.

Anything you want you can have? As long as I understand it I'll give it to ya.
I betting nothing I have is good enough for you..... And we are the gosus ones.

Matt

[ren]

I agree with Matt here Baroutologos.

I dont recall seeing you on the monopole forums at all? So many people build the monopole off the scraps of information seen on the internet and then complain when it doesnt charge 10 batteries off one battery. Very few people, even on the dedicated forums, bother to start at the beginning and build to spec and complete load tests etc. They immediately decide that they know what is best, and go about building their tower of Babel, only to be dissapointed when their results dont stack up.

Show me your monopoles you have built? Provide your specs, graphs reporting joules in vs joules out, extended charge/discharge cycles etc.

I have built over 10 different variations of that simple device alone, learning something different with each one. No I never charged ten batteries off one but I didnt expect to. One cant knock something up with basic tools and limited experience/knowledge and expect it to run like a Bentley.

If you are so adamant about getting so called "OU" then why dont you just buy it off ebay?

15KV 30mA 110vac Neon Sign Transformer Solid State - eBay Passive Components, Electronic Components, Electrical Test Equipment, Business Industrial. (end time 15-Oct-09 10:27:44 AEDST)

110vac 1 amp input, 15,000vac 30ma output. Do the math.

Regards

[Allcanadian]

baroutologos

Yes quantumppercut, you are absolutely right. A nuclear reactor is infact a huge OU machine of enormous potential.

Yes, keeping a neutral attitude towards ou is essential, but my passion driven from instict rather logic propels me to believe that OU is even possible with more modest means than a nuclear reactor setup.

I would disagree, If Overunity is excess energy above unity, unity being the total energy present in any given system or space, then a nuclear reactor is not overunity. We know where nuclear energy comes from, "Nuclear: Using or derived from the energy of atomic nuclei:", the energy liberated by a nuclear reaction was latent energy within the atoms. Overunity by definition is therefor energy from nothing which obviously is impossible. The mistake that is continually made is not accounting for all energy in any given space whether it is occupied by matter or not--- in an absolute sense(all energy in every form).
As well a nuclear reactor has been quoted as only being 5-6% efficient, that is around 90+% of the energy liberated from the nuclear reaction is waste heat not utilized, it is a disgrace to the engineering profession.
Regards
AC