Water Turbine Project

[Ted Ewert]

Picasa Web Albums - Ted - Turbine

[Electrotek]

Lookin' good, Ted. Your theory seems solid enough that it just may work. Thanks for sharing.

[Peter Lindemann]

Good Start

Ted,

This has to work. The principles are sound. It is just a matter of finding the right geometry. A systematic exploration of these ideas must lead to a working model.

Keep up the great work.

Peter

[Michael John Nunnerley]

Hi Ted

Nice construction, hope it works as you want it. There is so much to do that I am having to put my time into one project and then move on to another when the grey cells do not want to function on the project in hand, there is always time to go back and do more after a rest, keep going it is a good idea

Mike

[Ted Ewert]

Thanks for the support guys, I really do appreciate it.
I always have a certain level of trepidation when I fire up my machines for the first time. I should know better by now, but I let my hopes get up and I know it's not going to work the first time.
Nevertheless, I stuck some heavy duty casters on it so I can roll it around and I'll fire it up this afternoon once I get my honey-do list checked off.

Cheers,

Ted

[ren]

Hi Ted.

I have been working with a machinist in my local area and he told me about a water turbine he worked on a few years ago. I have found him to be an honest guy, so I dont doubt his retelling.

He was using a bench grinder to get it up to speed and with some adjustment to the water pressure he says that he was able to tune it to the point where it took off, accelerating past the running speed of the AC motor driving it. Unfortunately it came apart shortly after. It was made of a number of acrylic discs with slots cut into it in a vortex style pattern. These were glued together, and this is where it failed, the laminations coming apart at high speed and high pressure. He showed me some of the leftovers, he said the size of the slots in the turbine was very important. Talked about water hammer some...

He had a friend who tried to rebuild it, but he changed the slot size and he built only half of it, despite being told that there were two parts, Compression and Expansion. Needless to say, it didnt work as intended.

I will try to get some pictures of it next time we meet up if you are interested. Its quite different to your design, but perhaps it ties in or gives you some ideas.

Regards

[Inquorate]

Ted, I love it

Like peter says, in principle it should work. Gotta clean up my experiment's mess today - missus' orders - but will think on these centrifugal designs we're working on..

Your 1/3 hp motor makes me feel better about possibly adding a coil to my mill.

[Inquorate]

What if

The inside of the arms had ridges like an inside out screw, and the nozzles used the extra centrifugal force generated by the water's vortex to aid rotation?

Love and light

[Ted Ewert]

I fired it up and it spun pretty good. I don't think I had a very good prime on it though, because it stopped spraying after a minute or two. Then my homemade check valve stopped working so I had to take it apart. I also had a couple of leaks that needed some attention.
I need to develop a self priming system. I'm going to do some experiments with a centrifugal cone type pump. I started putting some pieces together and I think I may have a workable unit. I'll try it out in the next day or so and let you know.
@ Stealth, No rush. I'm quite a ways off from a self runner. I have a lot of work still ahead of me but I'll be happy to share notes. Lots of mechanical issues yet to solve.
@ Ren, Sounds intriguing. It's hard to get an accurate mental picture of the mechanism. Any pics? I'm always interested in new ideas.
@ Inquorate, Creating a vortex in the tube is a good thing in some instances, but you have to be careful. For instance, a vortex will not exit a nozzle with the same force that a straight stream will. If you examine Schaubergers Tornado nozzle assembly carefully you'll see that he kills the vortex with an "island" right before the water exits the nozzle.
I have plans for both straight and vorticle flows, but that's still down the road a ways. Once I get it primming itself things will get a lot easier.

Thanks for the input guys.

Ted

[sucahyo]

This is the kind of experiment that I will keep eye . Currently only playing around with what vortex do to plant.

Do the water inside the PVC tube spinning?


About Schauberger island, what do you mean?

[ren]

@ Ted.

I was intrigued too. He also stated that the electric motor was disconnected as it sped up, in a vain attempt to shut it down before self destruction occured. But it just kept speeding up

I will be getting some parts off him tomorrow hopefully, I will see if I can get a pic of what is left.

Regards

[Ted Ewert]

Do the water inside the PVC tube spinning?

It spins in the second part. I decided not to use this type of nozzle after doing a couple of tests. Since water is basically uncompressable I don't get anything there. And the vortex actually slows down the water exiting the nozzle. Theory is one thing, reality is often another.

About Schauberger island, what do you mean?

Here's a picture I scanned from the book "Living Energies" (sorry for the marginal quality). It shows the interior of Schauberger's nozzle and indicates the island. This whole page is very instructive and is worth close scrutiny.




Cheers,

Ted

[Ted Ewert]

I'm going to try a funnel inside of this 3" coupling in an attempt to produce centrifugal pumping. I may need a vane of some sort to make sure the water is spinning at the maximum velocity, but I'll try it first with only surface friction.



Here is the funnel inserted in the coupling:



The idea is to self prime the turbine so I don't have to fill it up each time. I've resolved to figure out some sort of a centrifugal pump as a solution. There are a number of possible choices. I'll try the simplest ones first and and then work towards more complex configurations until I find a winner. It may take a little time but it's a basic necessity. Then we can concentrate on the fun stuff.

Ted

[sucahyo]

@Ted Ewert, thanks for the answer, just notice it . I also found that water exit slower when there is vortex. I found a cone funnel made less vortex instead of hyperbolic or half round funnel.

The green one in this picture create vortex easier but with slower water drop, although in this configuration green one drain faster because I add fin in the copper pipe which suck the water and air to the bottom. The red one do not have fin in the copper pipe so air would not get sucked.

The red one has smooth angle transition (tangen shape) from top to bottom, the green one has sharp angle at the middle.


Good luck .

[Ted Ewert]

@Ted Ewert, thanks for the answer, just notice it . I also found that water exit slower when there is vortex. I found a cone funnel made less vortex instead of hyperbolic or half round funnel.

The green one in this picture create vortex easier but with slower water drop, although in this configuration green one drain faster because I add fin in the copper pipe which suck the water and air to the bottom. The red one do not have fin in the copper pipe so air would not get sucked.

The red one has smooth angle transition (tangen shape) from top to bottom, the green one has sharp angle at the middle.


Good luck .

Although a vortex will not exit a nozzle faster than a straight flow, it will allow a flow through a pipe with much less resistance (turbulence) than a non rotating flow.
All forms of rotating mass have very interesting properties. Bruce DePalma has written some really good stuff about this.

Ted