Latest: No back torque generator.

[broli]

Hi Broli
I like your ideas, but how to build? sizes,rpm.etc. also what about dr.peter's idea of ns poles to give ac. sounds very useful,easy to transform the low volts.
Watching all with interest,thanks
peter

I posted a formula a few posts back that should give you the voltage depending on the parameters of the setup. Also I believe this can be changed to give some AC instead of using an inverter. I believe it will approach what PL has experimente with, I should think about it.

The good part is that you are not bound to low voltage as it can be controlled with the amount of windings.

[Jbignes5]

Hey broli..

Heya Broli just wanted to ask what a real life setup might look like. You know what the coil looks like. How would you get the voltage off of it? Thru communtators? I would very much like to make one for an electric scooter that I'm outfitting with all the latest technology. I would be willing to field test it for you.

[broli]

Jbignes5, it depends on your need. If you can tell me what you are looking for I could give you some dimensions to work with, but that assumes that this design already works.

That's why a very basic test needs to be done to prove the concept. Do you have any kind of magnets laying around? If so what's their shape and dimensions?

I'm going to attempt a built using some rectangular magnets. The reason why is because they are slightly cheaper than disk or ring magnets and they don't need to be cut if you can find two. I already have one at 130mm x 50mm x 15mm so I still have to figure how to get another.

I'm by no means a mechanical engineer, perhaps a bedroom engineer. So do you guys have any suggestion on what simple (bedroom ) fixture I could use to stick these on and make it spin at least 1,000 rpm. I would assume a hand drill could be the prime mover.

Here's a link to the rectangular design(current direction is messed up): Latest: No back torque generator.

My first experiment would be hooking up a small light bulb to the rotor and spin the whole thing. Then whether it lights up or not I will go to phase 2 where I make some sort of brush/collector to get some numerical results. Then if phase 2 is a succes I will move to phase 3 which would be a wind down calculation with the coils shorted and not shorted given a certain amount of potential energy.

[Jbignes5]

yeah.

I got 4 @ 7/8" x 1 7/8". Standard Radioshack rectangles that should work fine. I just need to know how the coils are set. Two half moons? Should I hook up a commutator for the + - ?

[broli]

the coils should follow the shape of the perimeter of your magnets. So if the magnets are round the coils will be half moons yes, but if they are rectangles you should make a rectangular shape around their perimeter with the coils.

And yes the coils end should be hooked to a commutator. Pic attached shows this for single half moon coil with single winding. If you use two half moons make sure they are hooked correctly or they will cancel the voltage out at the collector.

[Iotayodi]

Always making someone think Broli!
Without making a commuter first you could take the wires down a hollow shaft and connect an led. You can also use meter probes in a primitive fashion first.
Rotate the magnets and hold the probes above them to see what the most voltage you can get. Then put the coils on and try it again with the probes to see if there is a voltage increase. Then put the commuter on to see the difference.

[Jbignes5]

@broli

Thank you thats what I was thinking. So rectangular magnets need rectangular coils?

@Iotayodi Well I did ask him for it lol. I just wanted to see how he would have done it to compare it to what I was thinking of implementing it. It was spot on to the way I was going to do it.

[Iotayodi]

Iotayodi Well I did ask him for it lol.

Well thats not how I really meant it. Broli has come up with Various ideas and he makes you think. Which it is really all about.

[broli]

Here's some more stuff you can think about.

The idea attached came from the same reason as the design I posted earlier. But this applies to a more linear case. It can be approximated by putting it on a big wheel. But the linear aspect should be very ideal for the equations as it makes things very simple. Again if we apply the biot-savart-lorentz law or old ampere force law (my favorite) we see there's a net EMF in the conductor.

Again the catch is the fact there is the same EMF in the magnets! This is the only mysterious thing for me. Because I'm not exactly sure what this means. Will the spin of the electrons slow down? Will the magnets get cold? Will this EMF simply have no significant result? These are all interesting questions but as long as the magnet doesn't mysteriously die...it shouldn't because we are not changing the field...then we could care less how the magnet deals with this EMF on their unpaired electrons.

I just put it on a wheel to illustrate a better use of it. Now imagine having curved magnets all around like this:

http://hackedgadgets.com/wp-content/Magnets_glued.JPG

with conductors setup so they meet at the center of the magnets like I rendered.

This information can be freely used to your heart's content just don't let it rot away.

[elias]

Boreli,
Well I studied Marinov's Motor and found it quite interesting. I don't know if this motor works as a generator when the conductive loop is rotated. Neither Faraday's Law of induction Nor Lorentz Force Equation applies in here, and this makes it somewhat remarkable.
The motoring effect is somewhat obvious considering the attraction of N and S poles, The loop rotates in order to find balance but it can be never achieved according to the geometry of the loop and the brushes.

Only experimentation will tell if this idea you've come up with can generate anything without drag.

I'll experiment with it if I find some time.

Elias

[broli]

Yes the marinov motor is quite interesting and should be experimented more with.

In the meantime I just ordered this bunch of magnets:

Rectangular Block Ferrite Magnets 25x10x3mm Pack of 100 - eBay (item 250340185691 end time May-08-09 04:33:21 PDT)

The dimension I'm going for based on these magnets are attached below. The bigger the radius the better due tot the squared relationship.

Also with the below setup the windings are used more efficiently since you have more wire making voltage where as in the first one the wire that went around the perimeter had no much use than guiding current around.

Edit: I just noticed I exceeded the attachment limit so had to delete an older one. Aaron can't the limit be higher than 4 mb? Most hosters allow terrabytes of storage surely a limit of 100mb wouldn't hurt . It would be a shame to remove all the old files as they can serve an archival purpose.

Edit2: Oke since this design uses double the amount of wire I had to adjust the formula a bit. Also I used the dimensions of the setup I'm going to attempt as r. It should theoretically give you a whooping 312.5 Volts at 1000 rpm. I think I should keep this in my back mind not to spin it too fast using thin windings . 312.5 DC volts with little to no resistance can give smoky results.

[Jbignes5]

Bad news

Sorry failed to make a working prototype. made the setup with 4 magnets and about 50 turns of wire 1.5 x 2.5 inches for the coil. Communtator shows solid connection but nothing on output either dc or ac.... I'm assuming the coil is attached to the magnets? meter used was a micronta 22-212 analog.
What exactly is the concept supposed to be for this to operate because a conductor sitting on a magnet does not induce a current to flow. Now matter what I do it just spins and nothing on the output. How is the magnetic force supposed to change in this setup?

[broli]

Sorry failed to make a working prototype. made the setup with 4 magnets and about 50 turns of wire 1.5 x 2.5 inches for the coil. Communtator shows solid connection but nothing on output either dc or ac.... I'm assuming the coil is attached to the magnets? meter used was a micronta 22-212 analog.
What exactly is the concept supposed to be for this to operate because a conductor sitting on a magnet does not induce a current to flow. Now matter what I do it just spins and nothing on the output. How is the magnetic force supposed to change in this setup?

As the conductors rotate they get a velocity vector perpendicular to the wire. This velocity with the surrounding magnetic field causes a force in the wire which becomes and electrical field. Thus current will flow. It's quite simple.

A changing flux is not needed to induce current. And yes the conductor and magnets are stuck together.

Are you sure you have the correct pole setup? Do you have any pictures of the setup? What is the rpm you spinned it at? Have you tried spinning it in both directions?

[Jbignes5]

As the conductors rotate they get a velocity vector perpendicular to the wire. This velocity with the surrounding magnetic field causes a force in the wire which becomes and electrical field. Thus current will flow. It's quite simple.

A changing flux is not needed to induce current. And yes the conductor and magnets are stuck together.

Are you sure you have the correct pole setup? Do you have any pictures of the setup? What is the rpm you spinned it at? Have you tried spinning it in both directions?

I believe I have the polls right but ill reverse them just in case. No picts yet. Very low rpm like 200-300 rpm should be suffiecient to get alittle movement out of the needle. Both direction I have tried.
I'll try reversing the poles to see if that helps but i didn't get anything from the rotation at all. Not even a blip.

[elias]

Boreli,

Well I was thinking that if this thing generates anything it is based on the N-effect and will produce low voltages. Jbignes5 could not see anything because of the very low voltage produced.

Elias