Impact of meat on the environment

[Kevin]

Wow! Lots of opinions.

The original post caught my eye.

"Impact of meat on the environment."

I have a couple questions:

Could someone post the source article? (from the NY Times) and/or some other article/verification of the many statements made in the OP.


If the production of meat is taxing the planet resources/health as claimed in this article, would reducing it result in some other tax on the planets resources/health?

TIA

The original article seems to have been written by someone who is either vegetarian or vegan.

I was able to read the article without being baited by all their inflammatory anti-meat language.

I do not give a flying Big Mac about whether someone eats meat or not...to each their own. BUT....

I still want to know if the "facts" that were quoted about meat production (not just farts, but production of feed for the animals, running of plants/farms, transportation of meat, etc.) being less economical than production of other foods are accurate.

Almost all the posts here are talking about meat eating vs. vegetarianism/vegan. I DON'T CARE...SIDE ISSUE in this subforum.

Is the production of meat like one person riding in an SUV that gets 8 mpg?

Is the production of meat a disproportionate contributor to pollution and use of this planets resources than the production of other foods?

For you meat eaters (and I am one also) set aside your personal concerns regarding the answer to the above questions. The truth is the truth...what is it?

Even if meat is 10x more expensive to produce than alternatives, I am still going to eat meat...BUT, I would like to know. Maybe I would eat a little less...maybe I would devote personal energy to finding ways to produce meat that is more resource efficient.

But without verifying the facts about the energy used to produce meat in comparison to the energy used to produce other foods....well, all this other stuff is like a Jerry Springer show.

[Aaron]

solar cooking

Sucahyo's link re: Chinese food and Aaron's mention of carbon footprint of food reminds me of something I learned in a cooking class.

The reason Chinese food was traditionally chopped up (as opposed to our steaks, pork chops, etc.) was to provide more surface area so the food would cook faster and less cooking oil would be needed.

Maybe we should try to cook with some kind of magnifying glass and sunlight so we don't need any fuel at all

Another reason the food was chopped at cooking time was because it is considered barbaric to cut the meat at the eating table. And of course if it is barbaric to eat meat to begin with is another issue.

If you search for solar stoves, you'll find quite a few. There are a lot of different kinds but some of the best seem to be about the size that fold up like a Coleman propane stove for camping...the 2x1 foot shaped ones. You just open them up and sit them in the direct sun.

[sigzidfit]

...it is considered barbaric to cut the meat at the eating table...

I can testify that I've been party to the killing, butchery, and eating of a variety of animals, wild, feral and domestic. The meat was mostly delicious. But, with the memory of what it took to get it, maybe I ate a little less.

As for those that are contemplating the monetizing of carbon please consider the following:

One 56 pound bushel of corn produces 18 pounds (2.72 gallons) of ethanol and approximately 17 pounds of distillers grains in various forms
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[mrbreau]

Where did the dirt go?

I think that is the title of the article I'm looking for that was released by the Department of Agriculture in the late '80s or early '90s. I have a copy of it somewhere but as yet can't find it. I will though.

In this article the main claim is that for EVERY TON OF GRAIN PRODUCED ONE TON OF TOPSOIL IS LOST...........FOREVER. They go on to say that it takes eight pounds of grain to produce one pound of beef, four pounds of grain to produce one pound of pork, and two pounds of grain to produce one pound of chicken.

Extrapolated, this means that every ton of beef cost the entire world eight tons of topsoil, one ton of pork costs the world four tons of topsoil, and one ton of chicken costs the world two tons of topsoil.

Here is an interesting link; Scream of Conciousness: Global Food Crisis - what can I do? in case you are also big on methanol.

Here is another link to some good reading.
Link; topsoil "beef" - Google Search

But since I don't have that article on hand here is one that supports the argument.

....this is one of several that I have. This is from a local newspaper in NY and the date is November, 1990! The sad news is that I don't have them filed properly and can't fine the ONE I was looking for.

[sucahyo]

Come to think of it (off thread topic, sorry) could magnifying glasses be used to increase solar cell efficiency?

I think it can, but there are less expensive way:
various design of solar cooker
Solar Cookers International (How Solar Cookers Work)
Category:Solar cooker designs - Solar Cooking
Category:Solar cooker plans - Solar Cooking

This contain the time to cook food:


Cooking meat takes 13 minutes, not bad.

This made me remember that cooking our food is considered pollution too....

I currently think that it is not a problem to "waste" water or plant to feed the cattle. If we keep them preserve and do anything to avoid to poison them, it can last forever. But it seems current technology do the opposite. Destroying river, emptying ground water reserve, emptying oil, spraying toxic, wasting energy, etc. Water become rare, plant become hard to grow, cattle have to be fed with artificial food, etc.

I think what we can do now is learning the better way and introduce them to anyone we know. But we have to be wise and not do things in a hurry or we may repeat the damage that already done today because of artificial fertilizer, "better" farming, "better" cattle grow, etc.

[gotoluc]

Thought for the Day

May 2nd

Man's foremost duty is to make right use of the time through the bodily vesture given to him. Man is bound by actions in this phenomenal world. While the Divine is all-pervasive, man fails to recognize it. He is unable to see the light that is within him. The Reality which you seek everywhere in the outside world is within you. Man today looks only at the outside world; this is an animal quality. To look inward is the mark of the true human being. Obsessed with the external and ignoring his inner vision, man has forfeited his power of discrimination.

[sucahyo]

The Reality which you seek everywhere in the outside world is within you. Man today looks only at the outside world; this is an animal quality.

Be carefull though, if you ever hear a voice or whisper from inside of you, it wouldn't be from god. So don't think it is something you have to follow, use your thinking to judge. Ignore this if it is about heart.

[ashtweth]

No-one yet knows whether swine flu will become a global pandemic, but it is becoming clear where it came from – most likely a giant pig factory farm run by an American multinational corporation in Veracruz, Mexico.

These factory farms are disgusting and dangerous, and they're rapidly multiplying. Thousands of pigs are brutally crammed into dirty warehouses and sprayed with a cocktail of drugs -- posing a health risk to more than just our food -- they and their manure lagoons create the perfect conditions to breed dangerous new viruses like swine flu. The World Health Organization (WHO) and the Food and Agriculture Organisation (FAO) must investigate and develop regulations for these farms to protect global health.

Or its helped by our Bilderberg friends..either way BOTH angles need to be considered.

Ash

[Kevin]

I think that is the title of the article I'm looking for that was released by the Department of Agriculture in the late '80s or early '90s. I have a copy of it somewhere but as yet can't find it. I will though.

In this article the main claim is that for EVERY TON OF GRAIN PRODUCED ONE TON OF TOPSOIL IS LOST...........FOREVER. They go on to say that it takes eight pounds of grain to produce one pound of beef, four pounds of grain to produce one pound of pork, and two pounds of grain to produce one pound of chicken.

Extrapolated, this means that every ton of beef cost the entire world eight tons of topsoil, one ton of pork costs the world four tons of topsoil, and one ton of chicken costs the world two tons of topsoil.

Here is an interesting link; Scream of Conciousness: Global Food Crisis - what can I do? in case you are also big on methanol.

Here is another link to some good reading.
Link; topsoil "beef" - Google Search

But since I don't have that article on hand here is one that supports the argument.

....this is one of several that I have. This is from a local newspaper in NY and the date is November, 1990! The sad news is that I don't have them filed properly and can't fine the ONE I was looking for.

for the info, I will look it over!

[gotoluc]

Thought for the Day

Love God and you see God in every creature. Another way is to start with those around you, and then widen the circle of love till it envelops all creation. Let the mind dwell ever on God; let it see everything as Divine. That is what is described as one-pointedness. When the mind is so fixed, it will give up its tendency to search for faults and foibles in others; it will not run after the foul and the frivolous and it will not accumulate the trivial and the transient. The body is like the container of the torch, the senses, the bulb and the mind is the battery. But if you use your intellect as the switch, then, the mind will not be turned towards the undesirable. It will be used only to help the individual's progress towards his/her Divine destiny.

[lighty]

@gotoluc

On the other side too much unchecked euphoria is also counter-productive...

[Vortex]

Living things live by consuming

All living things take from the environment and do not give (maybe a farmer ant is giving to fungus)
Yes, some in their taking provide food for others, but all must take for
itself first... life isn't concerned about giving nor can it give. It only takes.
Life lives by consuming, anything it gives is a side-effect of taking.

Another's thoughts about that: There is no dishonour

If available meat is reduced, the price goes up,
If meat is taxed, the price goes up..
If the price goes up, ALL FOOD prices go up because less eat meat and more
eat the rest of the food.. No matter what, the prices go up for ALL FOOD goes up.

This means people die. This is a sick topic.
The only way out of this without people dying, is replacement of meat
with some other protein of less or equal price And That Isn't Going To Happen!.

Randy

[ashtweth]

Your mommy kills animals (2007)

INFO:
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[future pather]

I still can't condone anyone thinking they are removing themselves from the life and death cycle by consuming only plants.

I agree with a lot of what Randy is saying (although I think we do give back quite a bit with every breath we exhale, etc.). If I live I kill dust mites when I scratch my skin. If I kill myself for their sake they probably die too, plus all the other parasites living in me. (Plus I've killed myself.)

There is no way to escape the cycle of life and death.

I have no problem with vegetarians, just with those who falsely believe they have isolated themselves from the issue of death by doing so.

[future pather]

On a similar note, it has always bothered me to think of being buried in a casket, because in that case my nutrients are being wasted rather than returned to the earth.

I believe there are laws about proper disposal of bodies for sanitary reasons, but perhaps we could improve the impact of "meat" on the environment by figuring out better ways to reuse our own physical bodies when we pass on.

I'd love to be planted in a spot with no casket and have a tree planted right on top. It's like I'd be living again as that tree.