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  • High Voltage / Fire Danger Alert

    This is from an email I sent to some pals two days ago, but wanted to share with some of you experimenters on this forum since we often deal with electricity and high voltages. A lot of you work with wooden prototype constructs. The mechanism by which this rare fire almost burnt down my office bears some interesting static electricity concepts -- particularly in regard to free electrons in small quantities of ungrounded metal, etc.

    -------------------------

    Hello all,

    I want to tell you about an interesting little fire that I put out in my lab early this morning since it is something any one can accidentally do. Feel free to FWD to your family and pals.

    This is a pretty rare kind of fire, but can occur under the right conditions, and those conditions are really very common to the homeowner and do-it-yourselfer. The story will shock you.

    Last time I saw anything like this was an incident where a solid rocket booster factory blew up and flung 1,000 pound cattle in the area nearly a mile away! Talk about roast beef. More commonly, you hear of little shop fires now and then with oily rags properly or improperly stored. In welding, you are always dealing with fire danger from embers or spark catching rags, clothing, and grease on fire. Putting out little fires is a pretty common shop gig, and so you always keep a clean shop with care and distance regarding combustibles. Fiberglass and epoxy resins (especially aircraft/ spacecraft blends) carelessly tossed into dumpsters have also been known to cause fires to trash bins (due to their high heat), and what happened here is a similar issue but all the more rare.

    Now, I've been working in shops and labs since age 10. That makes almost 27 years that I've been around everything from little electrical fires, to putting out small welding fires, to detonation of various explosives and rocket fuel. I've been around some pretty volatile stuff and played with more wild firecrackers and rockets than kids dream about, but, as in this case, it is the little things that seem less dangerous which we often totally overlook. With critical things, you tend to be very careful. With more casual things -- such as your own car or hobby projects -- often we let our guard down; Particularly in this case thoughtlessness got to me, and it's so easy to do that I want to tell you about it. Almost lost part of our house, the whole house, or maybe even our lives last night.

    As an aircraft mechanic, I've put out some pretty dangerous shop fires. Had a stubborn co-worker once who kept degreasing engines with gasoline rather than solvent (which takes extra time and labor) until one day he shorted some loose landing light wires with the spray jet and learned not to do that ever again! He torched the whole engine compartment, nearly blew himself up, almost burnt down a very expensive bird, and the boss was sure pissed!

    * Some of my old, Catholic school bad boy chums are notorious for blowing out three stories of engineering building windows among a Saturday afternoon scramjet backfire where improvised C-4 wasn't slowed down enough. Whoops! Nobody hurt or in school that day, but the higher ups banned live engine tests after that. We ruined it for everyone.

    I've been near a variety explosions that almost were, and God has always been kind to me, as again today. Where others often aren't, I've always tried to be safe. I try and, even then, there's always risk or potential to get hurt or be careless about something. To date, I have never once been shocked by AC current or even my DC welder from being a little overly paranoid about electricity. People sometimes laugh at me among all their machismo, but I'm a stickler about electrocution and fire, and yet here it snuck in on me.

    All in all, 27 years of working among electricity without ever being shocked by more dangerous electricity says it all. I don't even work on a live panel box. It's not worth it to me. When I mess with house electricity, I turn the whole thing off regardless of the inconvenience and I mark the panel box so nobody comes along to flick the switch while I'm working on wires. I treat any wire as if it wants to kill me, no matter how small; for high voltage wires are tiny, too! (Capacitors can also bite you).

    For honesty and now that I recall it, I should revise this to state that only time I have been near killed by electricity has been once among working engines during run-up tests and timing adjustment -- caught by continuous ignition coil output that was hard to break away from after it bit me. Flowed through my left arm through the heart and to my right arm that was grounded to the vehicle structure. It dropped me to my knees with heart flutter, daze, and disrupted rhythm for over a minute, but the adrenalin, anger, and panic of dying too damn young also gave me a good jumpstart again. Knocked the wind out of me for a good half hour, but, as with Rifers and their medical work, I also felt great for a few weeks thereafter. Wild boost of Chi. As a side note, I should add that my great grandmother was struck by lightning as a girl and oddly lived. I presume the main bolt didn't hit and fry her, but hit in the viscinity. And she lived beyond age 99. I forget the number. Could have been over 100 years. We've had a couple long runners like that; Longest going to 102 years.

    Sometimes you do hokey things among initial rigging and testing of temporary assemblies (Quickly taped up wires and all that; Temporary is always a dangerous affair around a farm with a tendency to become hokey permanent; I've had my sins and burnt wires at times), but, on permanent installations and things that will be inaccessible for years, you have to be all the more careful -- not overloading wires, always going overkill with wire gauge selection and fusing where possible, short prevention, proper bracketing of wires, always mounting wires above fuel hoses, etc. As an aircraft mechanic -- half of which is more like being a household electrician for aircraft structures -- I've always been careful. The usual house electrician doesn't run wires right alongside fuel and hydraulic lines, but that's what we do. Never a single mechanical, electrical, or fire issue with my birds among thousands of sorties flown. Airplanes catching on fire in the air is a major mechanic no no, so fanatical about such things is the way you're supposed to be. In engineering, same thing....always extensive care to prevent fires. I do try.

    At the moment, I'm working on some mock ups and hokey prototypes using pretty high voltage electrical equipment for a new kind of electrical generator that'll put out a lot of power on almost no fuel burn (Okay, none, but I downplay it). But, you have to be careful because high voltage or any form of electric current in excess of just one Amp through the body is enough to stop the human heart. Power coils are also tricky little beasts in that, when rapidly shut down, the back voltage and current can be like lightning! Most people think of Dr. Frankenstein gear that goes crazy when you throw the switch, but, with what I work on, it's when you shut the monster down too abruptly that you can get power surge enough to arc right on over the switch, kill you, backflow into your outlet, and explode a residential tranformer while knocking out power to a whole block. To prevent that, you take greater care and isolate equipment. But, that's part of what I cultivate here: harnessed lightning! And, high voltage requires some extra attention beyond conventional electrical care due to the ability of that lightning to jump through air. That high voltage issue is part of what happened here but not at all from my equipment.

    Unless you're working in a chemical environment -- such as piecing together explosives and rocket engines or trying to prevent damage to electronic equipment -- we normally don't pay much attention to static electricity in the home. But, here's what happened to me and what can easily happen to any of you:


    Yesterday, I was assembling better shelves and workbenches in my lab. I had a temporary shelving setup that was getting pretty dangerous and ugly for the hundreds of pounds it carried. Could have lost some costly lab gear and had much the mess to clean up, so I took time out to upgrade it. I also needed to open up more workbench area as it was getting pretty crowded atop my more solid platforms here. They were just oak plywood sheets that were sagging and flimsy with no serious bracketing. What I've built today you can lay a fat man upon or set even an engine block atop with ease.
    Last edited by SL3; 03-29-2009, 04:53 PM.

  • #2
    Part 2

    Rather than putting a dark stain to match my furniture, I have always liked the look of natural wood -- particularly on workbench and desk tops. Just a little Boiled Linseed Oil (flax oil) gives a long-lasting, slightly cherry color. If you don't thin it down and use it straight, you get a nice varnish from linseed which cleans and coats wood beautifully. It's the same stuff we use to give gunstocks a glossy look and smooth feel. So yesterday I was using an oil soaked, old undershirt (cotton) to stain my lumber. I assembled my shelves until late last night and polished them up a bit more.

    This morning, however, I entered my office like normal and smelled a fire going. Instant adrenalin rush! So I'm hunting frantically for the fire with my extinguisher. Couldn't find any flame. Presumed it electrical, and so ran outside to shut down all power to the house. Kept looking for the flames and something to put out, but all I had was a strange smoldering smoke all over the place. Was getting harder to breathe; Burning the eyes. Was afraid I'd have to call in the fire department. Got under the house looking for it -- thinking maybe an electrical fire inside the walls somewhere. That would be unusual. I haven't been doing anything wild that might cause power surge and fried wires back through my outlets faster than the breakers can shut down. I've been careful to make that impossible. Total isolation.

    All my regular office equipment here is not overloading breakers and is well within limits per outlet; No heat present in any wires; No shorts; No tripped breakers; Standard office stuff. Nothing of terribly high wattage draw. I built this place and wired her up in overkill. I put 10 gauge wire where only 12 and 14 are required. I always go one size up to allow for future hookups or leave extra margin for overload. Everything other than a couple farm things to fix outside are up to code and exceeding it. I don't leave hokey wiring around unless it is temporary, and even then it's safe. I couldn't figure out why the wiring in my walls was burning, and it turns out they weren't.

    Because my office is presently a wreck with papers on the floor and little batteries from the workbench now scattered here and there, I thought maybe something arced. Maybe a battery in contact with metal somewhere, but nothing. I kept hunting around among my prototype here, all electrical equipment, and computers in my office. Nothing. I studied a little radio that I leave on at night. Studied my radio shack. Nothing. All computers and everything totally shut down, but still a smolder going somewhere. No flame. Nothing appearing to be coming from the walls. If inside the walls from some sort of wiring short or overload that a breaker didn't catch, I worried maybe the wiring was on fire somewhere deep. Was hoping it would starve out with the house power killed. Kept hunting for it. Smoke seemed to be constant and increasing. No smoke detectors triggered because it was still so faint. Just typical of a small electrical fire, and yet I could not find it anywhere. Was that close to calling the fire department, but the situation still seemed controllable.

    All of this in about a minute's time. So, I'm hunting around rapidly in the whole place like a fool and then I find my undershirt smoldering on my workbench! No flame fortunately; Just smoldering away. The whole thing had burnt slowly as an oil fire all night long atop a metal tool box. Turned half my undershirt to charcoal! (Will post pictures later). I took it outside and laid it atop the gravel road. It continued to smolder for a couple hours.


    Fuel Source: Oily rag.

    Oxygen: Ambient

    Ignition:
    This is where it's interesting! It's not like I had a bunch of oily rags scattered about. No open flames here. The only thing I did yesterday was repeatedly rub that varnishing cloth on the wood until late at night. Then, I set it atop my toolbox and went to bed tired. That's where the static electricity issue totally bypassed consideration! To understand it goes back to high school physics along with understanding ignition to jet fuel or diesel (where higher voltage is needed in order to get thicker fuels burning).

    The reason I tell this story (rather than hiding it in shame) is because this was just one oily rag here! Just one rag. Not a mess of rags. Not some volatile fuel we normally think about. Not a gasoline soaked rag. Not a chemical varnish. Just natural flax seed oil. Just like stuff you'd find in a kitchen or carpentry shop in your garage. I've never experienced anything like it, but see now how it was easy.

    First, the oil is pretty old and probably broken down some. It's been in my chemical cabinet for years (And I keep that in an old utility van far from the house or structures). Still good varnish, but probably starting to separate some between thick and thinner (more volatile) oil. Then, I rubbed that rag into the wood pretty well. Not terribly rough, but a little dry scratching at times. Nothing you'd normally think about as adding a POSITIVE CHARGE due to scraping off oodles of electrons.

    So there I was yesterday scraping off electrons on this rag and its fuel. I brought the rag inside and scraped off more electrons cleaning up the shelves. Good static electrical build up. The whole time I set the rag atop the wooden workbench which acted as an insulator, so nothing was observed while I was working. Then, when I went to bed, I cleaned up the benches a bit and set the rag atop a metal box. What's that? Not a whole lot of box, but apparently ample GROUNDED structure enough to get some invisible, high voltage current jump from rag to box.

    There are ample free electrons in metal. The box acted as a powerful reservoir of ample NEGATIVE CHARGE. So you had there high voltage Positive to Negative and some battery action going. A little spark gap created there within a fuel soaked rag. Not anything you'd think of as a major or dangerous fuel source, but it was! It's not a terribly volatile fuel, but it was enough combustion to keep smoldering slowly. It even burnt my tool box slowly over the night. Very slow combustion with little smoke output, but combustion all the same. Had it not been atop the metal box, the fire would probably not have started or it would have probably burnt my workbench. Had it been near paper or more combustible things to serve as kindling....you'd have a fire started. A little longer unfound and it could have burnt well.

    This is what some call "Spontaneous Combustion" of oily rags, but it's never really from that. There is a degree of that possible in the relationship between fuels, molecules, electrons, and energy draw through nanospaces but I believe it all (in this case) boiled down to this positive to negative electrical flow of high voltage, static electricity (or negative to positive by other views). It's probably around less than 10,000 Volts I created between the oily rag and the metal box. Not enough to see blue flash, but just a zap that got it all burning.

    LESSON: Just an oily rag rubbed on wood (or plastic and other materials) and set on a metal tool box! Just one oily rag is all it takes to potentially lose your life or property. Whenever you rub oily cloth (such as over your furniture at home), take care to dispose of that rag in a fire safe container other than just your garbage can. This is a lesson I will remember and be fanatic about for the rest of my life. I won't even wipe a tabletop down with furniture polish anymore and put that fuel soaked cloth in a waste bin without first drenching the rag in faucet water or taking it outside! I'm going to be even all the more fanatical about those little shop rags we tend to toss about -- never dumping them in waste cans near our house; Never keeping our waste bins within fire distance of the house; never putting any form of oily rag (natural oils or otherwise) into anything other than my metal laundry bin for such rags. Even just one rag lying around that you think is no big deal....oooh, how I was wrong to be careless! Even just a little oil in your kitchen not cleaned up right away is, yes, a potential grease fire if you high voltage zap it! That's 27 years I've been careful and just one time that carelessness and thoughtlessness on it near bit me. And it's the very same ignition method which once blew up that rocket factory.

    ...Stuff for you to think about.
    Last edited by SL3; 03-29-2009, 04:56 PM.

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    • #3
      Spontaneous Combustion

      Linseed oil is notorious for disaster.

      Take another rag and place it on something you think wont produce the electrons you wrote of and watch the same thing happen.

      Wildwood Survival - Fire - Reflectors

      I have wondered for years if the heat from that is more efficient than outright combustion of the oil just clamp the temp below the vapor point so you don't waste it, and a dumpster sized devise outside, and pipe the heat inside..

      How to add oil for continuous operation?

      Dave

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      • #4
        Thanks for all this information. I'll never again put linseed oil in a capacitor or ignition coil. From now on, it's mineral spirits.

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        • #5
          its ok in your caps AS LONG as they don't leak onto a wick-ing material that will soak up air and the oil. ive seen caps arc over under the oil and the oil heals the carbon track by mixing

          Now since most of the big electrolytic I use are old, i put them in a large Coffey can to catch any pops messes..

          IF the oil is left with the top off (like it would be in your catch basin after failure) it just forms a thicker layer on the top and it seals off (sort a)
          linseed and metals and plastics is ok but porous organic materials should be keep away

          @E wont Spirits expand and ignite easier than oil?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by dave_cahoon View Post
            its ok in your caps AS LONG as they don't leak onto a wick-ing material that will soak up air and the oil. ive seen caps arc over under the oil and the oil heals the carbon track by mixing

            Now since most of the big electrolytic I use are old, i put them in a large Coffey can to catch any pops messes..

            IF the oil is left with the top off (like it would be in your catch basin after failure) it just forms a thicker layer on the top and it seals off (sort a)
            linseed and metals and plastics is ok but porous organic materials should be keep away

            @E wont Spirits expand and ignite easier than oil?
            I don't know, I've never used it. I guess I'll stick with linseed after what you said.

            Comment


            • #7
              This is very usefull information. Many car/motor repair service has oily towel scattering around, never guess that this is dangerous.

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