Centrifugal engine

[Ted Ewert]

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That is a elaborate labor of love...

Thanks for sharing your machine. On your next modification. Were you planning on staying with chain drive? Belts have certain advantages but can slip.

Good luck with it. Looks promising

[Ted Ewert]

That is a elaborate labor of love...

Thanks for sharing your machine. On your next modification. Were you planning on staying with chain drive? Belts have certain advantages but can slip.

Good luck with it. Looks promising

Thanks. I'm going to stay with the chains. They have a lot less mechanical loss than belts and are easier to adjust. I also want to try reversing the planetary orbit so they're rotating in the same direction as the primary, which is easy with the chains.

Ted

[Electrotek]

Ted: I'm really impressed with your engineering example. I'm sure you'll get this to do what you want it to. I might point out though that true quadrature requires that the two axes of rotation lie at 90 degrees to each other, rather than in the same plane. I've got several machines like that.

Also, here's a picture of a sprocket mechanism I built. If it comes to the point that you need to have someone replicate your system, I can do it.

Good luck, and I'm sure you're having fun!

[Ted Ewert]

Ted: I'm really impressed with your engineering example. I'm sure you'll get this to do what you want it to. I might point out though that true quadrature requires that the two axes of rotation lie at 90 degrees to each other, rather than in the same plane. I've got several machines like that.

Also, here's a picture of a sprocket mechanism I built. If it comes to the point that you need to have someone replicate your system, I can do it.

Good luck, and I'm sure you're having fun!

Thanks for the encouragement. You're right, projects like this are a lot of fun. Thanks for the offer to replicate, which you're more than welcome to do, but I really should get it working first. Nevertheless, all ideas and comments are welcome.
I've been thinking of different ways to shorten and lengthen the radius of the pendulums as they traverse through the phases of rotation. I'm leaning towards having them both on the same arm, so that when one radius is shortened, the other is lengthened. To do this I'd make the weights into wheels that could ride along a guide which would push the weight back in towards the axis, while at the same time lengthening the other pendulum's radius. Otherwise I could do the same thing to each pendulum separately, but the mechanism would be a little more complicated. I think the timing will work out fine with one arm for both, but I'll have to try it and see.
I'm not familiar with a quadrature mechanism, is that what your picture is of? That's a very interesting mechanism you built, I like it. Are the pendulums on a fixed radius? How does it work?

Cheers,

Ted

[Electrotek]

Your new radius changing system sounds promissing. Also, some kind of cam arm might work. My ceiling fan motor picture was supposed to be a slack pendulum. Swinging one way, the suspenssion rope could have become slack, as the swing velocity adds to the rotation speed on top. Except using the chain makes the outer sprockets turn twice for each rotation, as the chain itself crawls around. Here's a picture of a quadrature machine. There's a pivot at the bottom of the square parts of the frame. The plane of the weight's rotation rotates around this pivot.

[Ted Ewert]

Your new radius changing system sounds promissing. Also, some kind of cam arm might work. My ceiling fan motor picture was supposed to be a slack pendulum. Swinging one way, the suspenssion rope could have become slack, as the swing velocity adds to the rotation speed on top. Except using the chain makes the outer sprockets turn twice for each rotation, as the chain itself crawls around. Here's a picture of a quadrature machine. There's a pivot at the bottom of the square parts of the frame. The plane of the weight's rotation rotates around this pivot.

That quadrature machine looks interesting. Is there any more information available on it's operation? It's hard to tell how it works from such a small picture.
I'll be using some type of a cam for the arm, I'm just not sure what type yet.
OK, In place of actual progress, we'll fill with more theory...
By studying the orbits of the planets in our solar system, I've found that a few things need to happen before any extra energy is infused into an angular system.
The orbits of the planets have different speeds, periods, radii, etc, but the one thing they all have in common is that they have elliptical orbits. Elliptical orbits have two foci (axis of rotation), as opposed to one focus, as in a circular orbit.
Each of these foci represents two distinct phases of the orbit. One is the centripetal phase, and the other is the centrifugal phase. The centripetal phase is recognizable by it's shorter radius, and the centrifugal phase by its longer radius.
These phases alternate in both time and distance from one another. The angular velocity of the planet also varies with the phase of the orbit.
It is these conditions that differentiate the perpetual motion of the planets from a mass in a normal, circular orbit. None of the planets in our solar system have circular orbits, for good reason.
In a circular orbit, both centripetal and centrifugal aspects are "in phase". Without a differentiation between the two phases, Nature will add no additional energy to the system. Nature sees a circular orbit as being balanced. This is why unbalanced "gravity" wheels don't work. It doesn't matter how "unbalanced" they seem to be, nature sees balance in the phases and that's all there is to it.
Therefore, to take advantage of Natures abundance, one needs to copy Nature.
The first requirement is an "elliptical" orbit. As a big fan of Victor Schauberger, I prefer the egg shaped orbit for my "ellipse". This has a very definite differentiation between the phases, and accentuates this difference.
With a relatively constant rotational rate, the weights will go through velocity changes throughout the orbit as a function of their change in radius. They will slow down in the centripetal phase and speed up in the centrifugal phase, just as the planets do.
The centrifugal portion of the orbit imparts more energy than the centripetal portion. This force is directional and occurs unevenly within 180 degrees of rotation. This directional force should be used to perform work, or to perpetuate movement or rotation.
The centripetal portion of the cycle should be used to reset the weight so that it can be efficiently reemployed in the centrifugal portion.
A pendulum swinging on a stationary axis is a phase balanced system and will do no additional work. As soon as the axis moves during the swing, as in Milkovic's oscillator, the system becomes phase unbalanced and can do work. If that axis is connected to a lever, chain, rope or other force conveyance, real work can be performed with energy developed above and beyond the initial energy it took to swing the pendulum.
Obviously there are limits to the amount of power that can be extracted per swing, but it's more than you would think.
Anyway, these are some of the guidelines I'm attempting to follow in my machine. I'm trying to build a perpetually resetting pendulum that imparts centrifugal force in one direction at the end of a rotating lever. If it imparts enough force without shaking itself to death, I may be able to get some useful work out of it.

Cheers,

Ted

[Electrotek]

The centripetal portion of the cycle should be used to reset the weight so that it can be efficiently reemployed in the centrifugal portion.
A pendulum swinging on a stationary axis is a phase balanced system and will do no additional work. As soon as the axis moves during the swing, as in Milkovic's oscillator, the system becomes phase unbalanced and can do work. If that axis is connected to a lever, chain, rope or other force conveyance, real work can be performed with energy developed above and beyond the initial energy it took to swing the pendulum.

I think you're onto something with your moving axis and phase unbalanced system. My quadrature machine uses a similar approach and proves this is workable. Here's a basic diagram which illustrates the operation and how the axis is pulled back:



Fig. 1 shows the basic device, with 3 being the motors and 2 the hinge. The other figures show side perspectives. When the weights are lined up straight in, the top of the vertical shafts 7 tip backwards against the spring 81 as the weights move 30 degrees. This is a balanced movement, with the weights moving forwards and up and the rest of the mass moving backwards and down. This phase shifting is a torque and does not produce centrifugal force. After the 30 degree point the torque stops and centrifugal force starts up. The mass of the machine is pulled around the hinge pivot and the plane of the weights' rotation is tipped downwards. Pulling the weights downwards produces a reaction force which appears as lift.

I don't have any idea how something like this could be used to extract energy from an acceleration field. But this same type of phase shifting can be done with V shaped swing arms if a frame stop clutch is used momentarily before the arms are allowed to swing back in.

[Ted Ewert]

I think you're onto something with your moving axis and phase unbalanced system. My quadrature machine uses a similar approach and proves this is workable. Here's a basic diagram which illustrates the operation and how the axis is pulled back:



Fig. 1 shows the basic device, with 3 being the motors and 2 the hinge. The other figures show side perspectives. When the weights are lined up straight in, the top of the vertical shafts 7 tip backwards against the spring 81 as the weights move 30 degrees. This is a balanced movement, with the weights moving forwards and up and the rest of the mass moving backwards and down. This phase shifting is a torque and does not produce centrifugal force. After the 30 degree point the torque stops and centrifugal force starts up. The mass of the machine is pulled around the hinge pivot and the plane of the weights' rotation is tipped downwards. Pulling the weights downwards produces a reaction force which appears as lift.

I don't have any idea how something like this could be used to extract energy from an acceleration field. But this same type of phase shifting can be done with V shaped swing arms if a frame stop clutch is used momentarily before the arms are allowed to swing back in.

Thanks for the diagrams, I see how it works now. It uses two smaller rotating pendulums to turn the whole thing into one big pendulum. If you stuck this thing on the end of a rotating lever, I'll bet it would induce rotation. It could also induce forward movement if installed on a cart of some sort.
Milkovic built a little cart with two pendulums that he swung by hand out in front of him. The cart was propelled simply by the movement of the pendulums. This is very significant because it shows that centrifugal force can impart excess energy along an axis. Academic physicists would argue that the vectors all cancel in a pendulum and no excess energy is generated in any direction. They are absolutely correct when, in their laboratory, the axis of rotation is fixed.
I'm no expert on the theory of relativity, but I think I'm starting to see some cracks in it. IMHO, the aether has everything to do with motion and inertia. As such, all motion is relative to the aether.
If one looks at Milkovic's pendulum cart, or your quadrature machine, in terms of relativity, the movement of the axis of rotation looses all relevance. Yet movement through time and space defines the expression of energy. All movement is relative to the aether, so all movement has to be measured according to this relationship.
Shinning a flashlight ahead of a theoretical spaceship traveling close to the speed of light is a good example. Will the light beam travel at a speed that is a product of both the velocity of the spaceship and the beam from the flashlight? Or is light inherently restricted to a certain velocity regardless of the speed of it's origin? Without an aether, and according to academic physics, there should be no such limit. What mechanism could prevent an increase in velocity? Yet light will only travel so fast, no matter how fast the flashlight is going. This tells me that the speed of light is relative to the aether, and not to it's point of origin.
If we put a quadrature machine in a spaceship, and powered it up, would the spaceship move in the direction of centrifugal force? My answer would be yes.
Interesting stuff to think about anyway.

Cheers,

Ted

[aljhoa]

Tesla's Flying Stove

Thanks for the diagrams, I see how it works now. It uses two smaller rotating pendulums to turn the whole thing into one big pendulum. If you stuck this thing on the end of a rotating lever, I'll bet it would induce rotation. It could also induce forward movement if installed on a cart of some sort.
Milkovic built a little cart with two pendulums that he swung by hand out in front of him. The cart was propelled simply by the movement of the pendulums. This is very significant because it shows that centrifugal force can impart excess energy along an axis. Academic physicists would argue that the vectors all cancel in a pendulum and no excess energy is generated in any direction. They are absolutely correct when, in their laboratory, the axis of rotation is fixed.
I'm no expert on the theory of relativity, but I think I'm starting to see some cracks in it. IMHO, the aether has everything to do with motion and inertia. As such, all motion is relative to the aether.
If one looks at Milkovic's pendulum cart, or your quadrature machine, in terms of relativity, the movement of the axis of rotation looses all relevance. Yet movement through time and space defines the expression of energy. All movement is relative to the aether, so all movement has to be measured according to this relationship.
Shinning a flashlight ahead of a theoretical spaceship traveling close to the speed of light is a good example. Will the light beam travel at a speed that is a product of both the velocity of the spaceship and the beam from the flashlight? Or is light inherently restricted to a certain velocity regardless of the speed of it's origin? Without an aether, and according to academic physics, there should be no such limit. What mechanism could prevent an increase in velocity? Yet light will only travel so fast, no matter how fast the flashlight is going. This tells me that the speed of light is relative to the aether, and not to it's point of origin.
If we put a quadrature machine in a spaceship, and powered it up, would the spaceship move in the direction of centrifugal force? My answer would be yes.
Interesting stuff to think about anyway.

Cheers,

Ted

Ted,
have you seen Tesla's machine:
Nikola Tesla's Flying Machine - his Flying Stove
Al

[Ted Ewert]

Ted,
have you seen Tesla's machine:
Nikola Tesla's Flying Machine - his Flying Stove
Al

I hadn't seen this before, thanks for the link. Nevertheless, I don't see how this device could do anything but shake itself to death. I'm sure if Tesla designed this he had good reason to make this portion the way he did, but I strongly suspect there is more to this device than what is shown.

Cheers,

Ted

[Ted Ewert]

This is a variation on the same theme, only using a single pendulum.



The cams which drive the pendulum would be driven from a chain similar to what I already have. This would swing the pendulums back and forth and create centrifugal force in the direction of rotation.
Things like spring bumpers could also be added to help with the transition when the mass changes direction. Lots of different ways to skin this cat.

Cheers,

Ted

[Ted Ewert]