High Voltage from Thin Air?

[DrStiffler]

Just another quick data point here with the SEC 18-1. I put a 5A analog meter on the input of my 18V power source (2 9V cells connected in series) and it indicated that it was drawing ~420mA. According to this, earlier measurements were off by an order of magnitude! So it's back to the drawing board as far as current measurements go.

/me goes back to read Dr. Stiffler's measurement document again.

@Shamus

Yes indeed I would say you have not circled the wagons. With 18V * 0.42 =7.56W I rather doubt other wise that poor MPSA06 would be near molten silicon.

[baroutologos]

I have decided to go back and build a SEC 15-3 and play with it. It proved (for me) much more simpler than my previous one with the adjustable caps and works fine enough - except the current draw that sometime mounts as far as 250 mA (and transistor boils)!

....
Easy to tune, easy to light one towers LEDs by adjusting the variable inductor's stick.

I manage to accomplish wireless transfer of power also and to light a FL lamp. A good ground was required for me to make this happen and the passive tower to be in close proximity (0,5 m)

I found the power draw by the emmiting circuit does not alter considerably with the tuning and lighting of passive tower. Anyway, i have to tacle the over-consumption at first. (perhaps low value L2?)


Baroutologos

[DrStiffler]

Switching Power Supplies

@All

A significant amount of feedback information now substantial, indicates that Exciters do not like and operate well with PSU's based on switching. All indication is they work fine on linear supplies and of course batteries and solar cells, but have significant problems with the switching types.

I have seen this in a different way and feel it has to do with the way the output and bypassing to ground is handled in the PSU. I am also able to induce a condition with a switching PSU and Exciters by adding very large RF toroid's in the leads from the supply to the Exciter. In this case the Exciter may go into a pulsing oscillation that is feedback via the environment to the PSU. With the very large inductors the Exciters will not develop proper output unless a ground (earth) is added on the Exciter of the filters to the negative rail of the Exciter.

So if you are having some strange problems, be sure your PSU is not of the switching type. To get around it if this is your only way to power the Exciter, you must use an earth ground as in most cases the PSU is floating on both rails.

[DrStiffler]

I have decided to go back and build a SEC 15-3 and play with it. It proved (for me) much more simpler than my previous one with the adjustable caps and works fine enough - except the current draw that sometime mounts as far as 250 mA (and transistor boils)!

....
Easy to tune, easy to light one towers LEDs by adjusting the variable inductor's stick.

I manage to accomplish wireless transfer of power also and to light a FL lamp. A good ground was required for me to make this happen and the passive tower to be in close proximity (0,5 m)

I found the power draw by the emmiting circuit does not alter considerably with the tuning and lighting of passive tower. Anyway, i have to tacle the over-consumption at first. (perhaps low value L2?)


Baroutologos

@baroutologos

Nice looking replication, but may I ask what is all on the board (Exciter)? I can't really tell from the distance of the shot.

If you draw 250mA you really have a tuning problem (period).

@All

If you have a SEC 15 or 18, here is a test (although can only be done on 18-1a and 18-1e boards) so I'll describe the 15.

I will assume you are using some form of L1 (tunable or fixed) and of course L2. Disconnect L3 and power it up. You should have oscillation for the full range of your L1 tuning method. If the oscillation drops out as you tune L1, then L1 and C1 (either or both) is incorrect. In the ideal, the center of the range of L1 should provide a freq of 9.6 - 10.6 - 10.8 or 12.6 MHz when coupled with small sniffer to L2. The current should not exceed 50mA at this point. Tuning either side will increase the current, maybe up to 100mA and there will be on one side or the other another peak but of a much lower level.

Now with you 15 setup and working as described above, remove L2 and replace with a higher inductor. Retune and you will see the max current is much lower and the tuning is not near as sharp and you will have a whole new set of frequencies. Now do the same thing with a small inductance (for L2). Observe the current will go up and the transistor starts some serious heating. You may still hit some of the desired freqs, but now when you detune the currents can go very high.

This is the same old mantra, tuning. If you do not have LCR or generator and scope to do it the old way then it is a hit and run game. You may very well light LED's, FL's and get some wireless when its not right, but you will never get a CEC>1.

[baroutologos]

Hi again, you are absolutely right Dr, something is not configured right there, since my first replication draw only 2,5ma at "idle" and 30-50ma at lighting LEDs.

....
By the way, having a little bit knowledge on RF, in the towers transmiting or receiving a stationary wave should be formed. LEDs are most intense on a node? i/e/ maximum voltage?

....
In my humble photo, the board has a standard 15-3 sec configuration with the specified part values exept i did not use a L2, instead the tower was the L2, and the L1 also is of questionable value. The variable inductor is an improvised one ala Lidmotor 4-20uH

....
EDIT: by the way, when you describe that intense tuning is required for CEC>1, what do you mean by that?


Baroutologos

[Loki67671]

@All
I'm sure you guys know by now just getting your hands into the circuit causes all kinds of tuning to happen. For our purposes we want our bodies and tools to have the absolute minimum effect on the circuits under test. Here is a link to the Coilcraft website where you can obtain a proper set of tuning wands and diddle sticks. These will save you much grief and they are VERY reasonably priced. Notice that these are made from NON FERROMAGNETIC MATERIALS........plastics and ceramics are the name of the game. You won't excessively detune your circuits, at least not with the tool, and when working with commercial tunable inductors you will break far fewer slugs in your forms. Enjoy and good testing to you!

Coilcraft Tuning tools Trituner and Slot Tuner

Best regards,
Jim

[DrStiffler]

Battery Charging

@All

If you need a weekend project you might like to try this. As with all battery charging schemes it is hard to get a handle on what is really happening and if indeed you are obtaining anything of value.

The big problem with Exciters charging batteries has been the impedance mismatch. I think that is corrected for the 8.4V Li's anyway and maybe there is more bang for the buck in the way I set it up. The whole idea is to get light in locations where that is hard at night because power is not available. Now granted the 700mA batts will not run you all night, but maybe we can stretch that out.

To get a better impedance match I use a 12 White LED array with 6 on each side of the battery. I drive the 18-1 with another 8.4 batt. We get light from the 12 LEDs and the second batt gets charged. Now the batts can be switched back and forth to keep things going.

With an electronic load test, this has great promise, but be careful as this does charge at a high rate, don't blow the batteries up. The whole output thinks the battery is just more LEDs and does not get up set. Now if some see this may work, the next thing is to calculate the correct number of LEDs for each voltage of battery to be used.

[Lidmotor]

Battery charging & portable light

@All

If you need a weekend project you might like to try this. As with all battery charging schemes it is hard to get a handle on what is really happening and if indeed you are obtaining anything of value.

The big problem with Exciters charging batteries has been the impedance mismatch. I think that is corrected for the 8.4V Li's anyway and maybe there is more bang for the buck in the way I set it up. The whole idea is to get light in locations where that is hard at night because power is not available. Now granted the 700mA batts will not run you all night, but maybe we can stretch that out.

To get a better impedance match I use a 12 White LED array with 6 on each side of the battery. I drive the 18-1 with another 8.4 batt. We get light from the 12 LEDs and the second batt gets charged. Now the batts can be switched back and forth to keep things going.

With an electronic load test, this has great promise, but be careful as this does charge at a high rate, don't blow the batteries up. The whole output thinks the battery is just more LEDs and does not get up set. Now if some see this may work, the next thing is to calculate the correct number of LEDs for each voltage of battery to be used.

@Doc
I like your idea. I'm over at Catalina again for a few days but when I get home I'll try that. I wish that I had brought the things with me so I could try that idea over here. I left everything at the house. It is very dark at night here and ANY light is welcome. I have been using CFL lighting this trip and it has worked out very well but takes quite a bit of power. The SEC arrangement is more efficient.

@All
I have been reading all the thread entries here and everybody is really doing well on the different projects. I totally agree with Doc about getting a false sense of accurate tuning without the proper test equipment. It is a hit and miss thing without it. Just watch the amp draw, the transistor heat, and the amount of light. When everything is just right you should be able to see the magic happen. It is addictive.

Lidmoto

[DrStiffler]

@Doc
I like your idea. I'm over at Catalina again for a few days but when I get home I'll try that. I wish that I had brought the things with me so I could try that idea over here. I left everything at the house. It is very dark at night here and ANY light is welcome. I have been using CFL lighting this trip and it has worked out very well but takes quite a bit of power. The SEC arrangement is more efficient.

@All
I have been reading all the thread entries here and everybody is really doing well on the different projects. I totally agree with Doc about getting a false sense of accurate tuning without the proper test equipment. It is a hit and miss thing without it. Just watch the amp draw, the transistor heat, and the amount of light. When everything is just right you should be able to see the magic happen. It is addictive.

Lidmoto

@Lidmotor
Well I know full well what it takes to own that party vessel of yours, maybe as mine did have two big engines. Anyway if you dry-docked it for a year you could have a lab to rival most and Lidmotor and a good lab would be something to deal with.

Well when you get back, get with me via PEM and I will be able to give the practical side. I have done the bench work, now it is running like I was in the deep forest and will have results in a day or by Monday anyway.

So these trips you take, are the like the CBS ones I described from HYC?

[jonnydavro]

Hi. I am new to this thread but i have been working my way through it and after being inspired by inqurate and lidmotors vids i thought i would have a go so yesterday i made my first SEC and would like two share my first two experiments with you.
In my first experiment,i have found a way to run multiple secs in sync using just one variable inductor.Here is a vid and a circuit diagram which explains how.
YouTube - SEC exciter, master and slave
Imageshack - secmasterandslave - Uploaded by jonnydavro
In my 2nd experiment i light 5 neon bulbs,4 wirelessly although this may be via a capasitive effect i was quite amazed at how these could be daisy chained.Here is a vid and a circuit diagram of how i did that.
YouTube - SEC Exciter lighting 5 neons,4 wirelessly.
Imageshack - wirelessneons - Uploaded by jonnydavro
I would like to say a quick thankyou to Dr stiffler for sharing his work. Regards jonny.

[DrStiffler]

Hi. I am new to this thread but i have been working my way through it and after being inspired by inqurate and lidmotors vids i thought i would have a go so yesterday i made my first SEC and would like two share my first two experiments with you.
In my first experiment,i have found a way to run multiple secs in sync using just one variable inductor.Here is a vid and a circuit diagram which explains how.
YouTube - SEC exciter, master and slave
Imageshack - secmasterandslave - Uploaded by jonnydavro
In my 2nd experiment i light 5 neon bulbs,4 wirelessly although this may be via a capasitive effect i was quite amazed at how these could be daisy chained.Here is a vid and a circuit diagram of how i did that.
YouTube - SEC Exciter lighting 5 neons,4 wirelessly.
Imageshack - wirelessneons - Uploaded by jonnydavro
I would like to say a quick thankyou to Dr stiffler for sharing his work. Regards jonny.

@jonnydavro
Wow! I hope you live in a non-repressive country as I have never felt it possible to say what you have shown. FANTASTIC! someone that is seeing the connection (maybe). This folks is why the 18-2 is no longer.....

Great video and work sir!

[Inquorate]

Frequency and time of wavelength

I can look up the time division of a wavelength with a dial on my scope, but don't know how to work out the frequency based on that.

Google hasn't helped, can someone point me in the right direction?

Ta

[minde4000]

Hi folks,

Its nice to see you all here going along with Doc.
I have recently build 4 towers and have two 18-x secs as well as 42 led board. I can get them lit to I would say full brightness wirelessly while feeding sec with 18 VDC @ 30ma and also charge a cap with another tower. I will post some pics later on. Unfortunately like many others I also do not have analyzer so tunning goes by best led brightness @ lowest amp draw. I also can make a first sec to feed second sec wich uses transmitter tower to light up 42 leds to full brightness wirelessly but so far cannot come up with sufficient feedback to the first sec to achieve a "clean circle" like Doc has. It seems hard to tune all towers together .. yes I have a trimmer cap between 1-37 wounds in parallel to form tunable lc tank on each tower because I added a second trimmer cap onto one of my secs so it forms same LC configuration with transmitting tower 1-37 wound coil part. This appearently improves led output to full brightness. Sooo.. not much so far

Minde

[Loki67671]

I can look up the time division of a wavelength with a dial on my scope, but don't know how to work out the frequency based on that.

Google hasn't helped, can someone point me in the right direction?

Ta

Here you go brother..........
oscilloscope Tutorials.



basically (1/measured period) and can prove to be VERY tricky sometimes......Depends on what you are calling a complete cycle of the wave.

[Inquorate]

Frequency calculations

For all the newbie electronics enthusiasts, this is how to work out the frequency of your sec with a 'scope

Frequency is the reciprocal of the period [of the wavelength], so once you know the period, the frequency is one divided by the period.

The major divisions are indicating the time division on the frequency / time dial on the Oscilloscope, if the scope probe is set to *1, or the minor divisions if the probe is set to *10.

Is that right? Or is the *10 only amplitude?

So I find the wavelength's time by the counting the divisions and multiplying by the number on the dial, then converting it to seconds

Conversions for time measurements - online time converter - on-line time conversions

Then I put that into here

Online Conversion - Frequency Conversion

And get the mhz

Ok..

Thanks for that Loki67671