The Mechanical Engine

[Inquorate]

Marxist

Correct on all counts. Heavy pendulums don't bounce. I'll figure out a way around that soon.

[Peter Lindemann]

Questions and Concerns

Inquorate,

This design is, indeed, interesting, but I am concerned about a number of its features. The primary thing that bothers me is its RANDOM functions. Success seems dependent on a certain amount of CHAOS in the movements. Every time these parameters are tightened up in the simulation, the machine stops working.

In science, there are no operating engines that depend on chaos. Without exception, every motion is tightly defined and regulated to produce the end result of energy production.

This ISSUE may not be cleared up until someone actually builds your design and tests it on the bench. This will teach us something about both the design and the viability of the simulation.

I am also curious why you are calling it a "gravity mill" when clearly, gravity is not driving the system. The design only "works" in the simulator if the weights "swing" more on the right than on the left. This strongly indicates that the driving force is the centrifugal force generated by the pendulums in the vertical plane. Would you be willing to discuss your reasoning on this issue?

Peter

[woopy]

the reality is speaking

Hello all

today is not so good

I spend some hours in the workshop to do real Besslerratchet proto

and until now i got no succes

i enclose here under some pictures of the real set up

the main wheel is very loose i desassembled all bearing and clean them perfectly then i remount them and add fine oil and got a very loose system .
I tested different weight of pendulums
the ratchet tested with a saw disk with very fine teeth spacing and as you can see the center hole is wide enough that i can trim the eccentricity of the ratchet at will than as Peter Lindemann suggested i tried a partial ratchet and let the pendulum "cliff-falling" but i noticed no pendulum acceleration downway

than i tried to initiate and increase the Milkovic-to- ratchet efficiency with springs but until now no succes

but the good thing for today is that i have a bench and a wheel and ratchet and pendulum that i can move with my fingers and get the real feeling and i hope that i will find the key to make this accelerate

all the best

waiting comments

good night

Laurent

[Inquorate]

a rose by any other name

I'm calling it a gravity mill because while one side causes downward force due to centrifugal force from swinging pendulum, gravity is tricked into giving us that swing.

without gravity it would not work. I do get your point though; we don't call a windmill an air pressure differential engine.

Woopy, you're going to need much more pendulums. Try using the program to make the wheel on your bench, ratio / weight etc..

I think also it won't move.

@peter

'Chaos engine' maybe? :-D

I'm drawing up plans for a 2m (1m beam) version, see if she'll dance.

[Inquorate]

2 more cents

We also call a petrol engine a petrol engine, not an internal combustion engine as it should be called.

@ peter, I just realised from your wording in your above post '' issue may not be cleared up until someone actually builds your design and tests it on the bench''

That you are implying that the difference between my software simulation and yours is that mine is yet to be tested on the bench...

[Peter Lindemann]

No Offense Intended

We also call a petrol engine a petrol engine, not an internal combustion engine as it should be called.

@ peter, I just realised from your wording in your above post '' issue may not be cleared up until someone actually builds your design and tests it on the bench''

That you are implying that the difference between my software simulation and yours is that mine is yet to be tested on the bench...

Inquorate,

I am intrigued by your design. I am excited that the simulators have indicated the design works. I look forward to you and Woopy continuing to post in this thread on these developments. From all of this, there seems to be every reason to move the project forward to "working models". I look forward to the possible success of these physical prototypes.

In contrast to this, my design is speculative based on DOZENS of test models and 5 years of thought. It has not been simulated (that I know of) or reduced to practice (that I know of). Along with the discovery of the piano movement in the same time frame as Bessler's discovery, it seemed worth publishing.

But you and I are not in a competition. The purpose of this thread is to promote the idea of a truly "mechanical engine" based on the action of swinging pendulums.

My article was written more than two years ago and was gathering dust in my computer, so I published it. "Your solution" is remarkable and simple, but it is based on the ideas in my published article. But that was the point of publishing.

I am not criticizing YOU. I am "concerned" about the issues I have raised with regard to your design and its "function" in the simulator. There are a number of things that seem "counter-intuitive" about the simulator results. That does not mean they are wrong, just deserving of careful observation.

Please do not take offense at anything I have said in this thread. I have made no personal comments about you, and I never will.

I HOPE your design works and that an insanely simply energy machine can be made from it to turn a small generator in my garage! Nothing would make me happier!

Peter

[CloudSeeder]

Perhaps the swinging pendulums would benefit not all being identical weight. Make them in sets of 3 => lighter, medium, heaviest. Perhaps the 1 then the 2nd and then the 3rd would add into an increasingly-powerful harmonic pump. The 3rd one being the heaviest would pull the next set of 3 forward with a bit more OOMPH.

[Inquorate]

@ cloudseeder - that idea may have merit, so long as each weight's opposing weight is the same..

[Dingus]

I've just about given up on my attempt at testing the mechanical engine by making laser-cut parts.

Sadly enough, this isn't due to mechanical failure, but my inability to make a decent template.

In other news, I got my hands on a rather large (free) sawblade that might make for a nice ratchet for a woopy-style gravity mill.

[CloudSeeder]

@ inquorate: well, no they wouldn't because on the Up side the smaller weight would be going up first. However, I do not think that to be a terribly crippling problem because exact mirror image on each side is not the relevance you think. What is relevant is that at any given moment the total right HALF be close to same as the total left HALF. It could just turn out that not being exact mirror image could work IN YOUR FAVOR.

Remember too that when the device is in motion a certain amount of slight indifference doesn't mean the same thing it means sitting still... much like Dr. Lindemann has previously pointed out about needing to run faster when not under load so it can bear the load of a generator when added.

Until that time it's impossible to know whether the indifference works against or for the device. In my opinion it is somewhat likely to work against the motion at slower speeds but reach a pinnacle, a breakover like an ocean wave breaking, a sweet spot where it switches to working for the device. That will be the speed it runs at under load. The generator size would have to be adjusted to the correct for that point, or even possibly a small "window" of points.

You do good work.

[sucahyo]

@Inquorate, nice work . What thing you used for damper in real prototype? cloth or sponge?

Did you use nut & bolt for pendulum weight?

[Inquorate]

Sucahyo

Been on worker's compensation last three weeks, so seriously limited funds and haven't built one yet. I'll upload a sketch of my design and what it'll be made of and how..

[Inquorate]

Sketch

Gravity+mill+sketch.jpg (image)

I'll use a wheelbarrow wheel axle and bearings for the centre, planks for the arms, skateboard bearings for the pendulum axles with 1/4 inch bolts thru them.

Excersize weights for 'flywheel' etc. Wheels on the ends of the pendulums?

Eccentric wheel will be adjustable on the main axle.

Damping bar has to be more adjustable, another bar it can be moved left and right on?

And a bicycle pedal cog for chain to small generator.

And about half the size indicated, so I can work on it in my loungeroom. Oh and 8 arms, not 4 - was keeping sketch simple.

Love and light.

Edit; my wm2d file is 17mb if anyone wants it; also I have Woopy's many pendulum large eccentric wheel version's file, about 2 megs. I guess springs take up lots of memory in a save file..

[Michael John Nunnerley]

Peter, how do you start a new thread

Mike

[Mark]

Michael, at the bottom of the first page after you go to renewable energy there will be a "NEW THREAD" button just like the reply button you hit to post.