The Mechanical Engine

[Inquorate]

Just a theory

@ Ted - without having seen your wheel, I've been thinking of possible variables as to why your pendulum might pull the wheel down more without the spring..

In my experiments, the pendulum and lever are in sinc; for each swing of the pendulum, the opposite arm will go from up to down to up..

To get it in sinc, I had to change the position of the weight with reference to distance from the pendulum's fulcrum. This changes the period of the pendulum's swing..

I wonder if things change re the spring's effect

[Ted Ewert]

Hi Ted, a very good observation of a ballerina, I like to watch the old style governors with ball weights spining, not quite the same effect but close and interesting effect all the same. Now thats an interesting idea do not worry Peter I will not start again, not at the moment anyway

Ted, I want you to take a stick and tie a piece of string to it and on the other end a weight, be careful to tie it well, hold the stick and swing the weight around in circles so that the string slowly raps itself around the stick.

It will eventually completly wrap itself on the stick but I want you to observe two things, does the weight speed up and two does it appear to change its weight. This is interesting stuff to understand and will be helpful for your designs.

Michael N

I saw a video on You Tube a year or so ago that featured a mobile using that same principal; wrapping a string with a weight on it around a stick, and supposedly this thing would run indefinitely. I tried to find the video again but couldn't.
Walter Russell says that all motion is curved, and that all motion contains both centripetal and centrifugal forces. I tend to agree with him.
I also think that centrifugal force yields more energy in most circumstances. Schauberger would disagree, but then he was taking advantage of centripetal force in his vortex generators.
If we examine the "slingshot effect", it can be seen that more energy is extracted from a partial orbit around a celestial body than was expended. This indicates to me that the centripetal portion of the orbit, where speed is increased as the craft is being pulled in towards the planet, has less energy than the centrifugal portion of the orbit where the craft pulls away from the planet, out of the gravitational field, and at a net increased velocity.
I suppose one could also argue that the centripetal portion imparts more energy than is bled off in the centrifugal portion of the orbit. It depends on where you see the energy coming from.
However, if the centripetal force were stronger, how would a craft ever attain escape velocity, once caught in the centripetal pull of gravity?
This is the same mechanism that works on planetary orbits. The centrifugal portions of the slightly elliptical orbit impart enough extra velocity to the planet that it doesn't spiral into it's primary. In fact, all the planets are slowly moving away from the sun, which makes sense.
Anyway, I set up the wheel today with a spring just beyond the centerline on one of the pendulums. It did indeed propel the wheel down, but not as well as without the spring! I didn't have a chance to move the spring around or play with it much more since I had to get to work. But again that was unexpected.
There is still a whole lot more to learn about these seemingly simple machines. Just when I think I'm starting to get a handle on the theory, the machine does something to throw me off again. I think there are a number of different forces and effects working together that are not obvious at first glance. I predict a lot more trial and error down this road.

Ted

[CloudSeeder]

I should have added DITTO to Peter's conclusion on the position of the rubber ball. An oversight, sorry. So if the ball is better-positioned it'll be even less a concern.

[CloudSeeder]

Two thoughts:

1) an Australian bolo speeds up.

2) The ballerina is controlling the speed of her spin with her arm extension, something possible for a living ballerina, something impossible (so far) for our machines. Right? Counterweights work good in automobile distributors but they aren't doing the controlling by themselves. It's a symbiotic with the operator.

[Michael John Nunnerley]

[QUOTE=Ted Ewert;50573]All thoughts are good, thanks for bringing up an interesting point.
If you think in terms of a ballerina spinning, when her arms extend, her spin slows down. When they are pulled back in close she speeds up. When the pendulum extends and retracts from the main axis this also affects the speed of the wheel.
However, this action is at the heart of the theory I keep trying to sell here (I know you're all tired of hearing it).



Hi Ted, a very good observation of a ballerina, I like to watch the old style governors with ball weights spining, not quite the same effect but close and interesting effect all the same. Now thats an interesting idea do not worry Peter I will not start again, not at the moment anyway

Ted, I want you to take a stick and tie a piece of string to it and on the other end a weight, be careful to tie it well, hold the stick and swing the weight around in circles so that the string slowly raps itself around the stick.

It will eventually completly wrap itself on the stick but I want you to observe two things, does the weight speed up and two does it appear to change its weight. This is interesting stuff to understand and will be helpful for your designs.

Michael N

[CloudSeeder]

The upward motion of the arm is more optical illusion that true negative force... because it is a cessation of forward motion, not a reversal of downward motion. Were the device in full spinning mode I believe this would be more obvious that it is less an issue.

The cessation of forward motion is temporary but, like Michael noted, the weight of the left side then has a "foot in the door" to pull the right side up.

*** All of which also agrees with Mark's comment above => http://www.energeticforum.com/50584-post241.html #241

when the pendulum gets to the top of its swing it becomes weightless, so to speak.

So it does deliver a "backwards pop" (impact) in this single demonstration but if the other side was functioning, and perhaps another bar (vertical) was in place also functioning, the one instance per 4 pendulums would not even be a blip on the screen.

[CloudSeeder]

Thanks Peter. For the record I have a few friends. Some of them even have impressive profiles on this forum. If this is a back-slapping party then the name of the thread should be changed. When time comes I place something on here for examination I WANT HONESTY METED OUT, not people trying to protect my little feelings so much they don't tell me something I need to know.

[Peter Lindemann]

Yes

@ Peter

Do not worry Peter, scientists have been arguing about this for many many years and I do not know many that agree, when they say that for every force there is an equal counter force someone had to put a name to it.

Michael N

Michael,

Yes. Here, here, and a round of E-Beer for everyone!

By the by, I am not saying you are wrong. After all, until recently the idea of harnessing Centrifugal Force was impossible, but Veljko and others have proved that to be incorrect. You might be on to something and I encourage you to keep working on it. Free Energy sources are usually found where people least expect them.

Peter

[Michael John Nunnerley]

@ Peter

Do not worry Peter, scientists have been arguing about this for many many years and I do not know many that agree, when they say that for every force there is an equal counter force someone had to put a name to it.

Michael N

[Peter Lindemann]

Centripetal Force

@ Peter

Well I have looked again and freezed the frames through and I can only see the inpulse of the rubber ball to push the pendulum to the outside and then the gravity is doing the rest as it is out of balance. But one thing is as I have said, if you can harness the centripetal force, which he is doing here by a slight compression of the rubber ball, and turn it into centrifugal force to extend the weight out from the axis, you will have inbalance and gravity takes over.

Michael N

Michael,

We definitely see things slightly differently. My understanding of the Centripetal Force in these situations is that it remains a "constrained force" within the rod holding the pendulum to its pivot point. This force never actually shows up outside of the rod, and is simply a stress preventing it from stretching in length.

The Centrifugal Force is also normally just a stress on the rod, but in this case it can be seen outside of the rod because as it pulls down on the pivot point, the pivot point can now move in relation to the axis of the lever arm it is mounted on. The Centripetal Force simply defines the structure of the ROD itself, and characterizes the distance between the mass of the pendulum and the pivot point it is hanging from.

So, I see how the Centrifugal Force can be harnessed , but I do not see how the Centripetal Force can be.

Anyway, that's how I see it.

Peter

[Inquorate]

Centripetal 'force'

Still not able to sleep. On a bit of a natural high...

I've always had a problem with the 'Centripetal force' - I've always just seen it as tension between the fulcrum and the edge of the orbiting mass as a result of 'centrifugal force' which I have always seen as the inertial property of 'mass' in a superfluid aether...

I think 'they' just invented 'Centripetal force' as a counter to the 'centrifugal force' to maintain the charade of 'equal and opposite reaction'...

In a superfluid aether where mass particles are vortices in said aether, and light is longitudinal compression waves (which exist in zero kelvin superfluid hydrogen liquid) and magnetic fields are Stressfields ( centrifugal spin meets inwards aether stream which tries to fill mass vortices - aka gravity) in said aether..

But that's just me.

Love and light

[Michael John Nunnerley]

@ Peter

Well I have looked again and freezed the frames through and I can only see the inpulse of the rubber ball to push the pendulum to the outside and then the gravity is doing the rest as it is out of balance. But one thing is as I have said, if you can harness the centripetal force, which he is doing here by a slight compression of the rubber ball, and turn it into centrifugal force to extend the weight out from the axis, you will have inbalance and gravity takes over.

Michael N

[Inquorate]

Beer

@ Peter - if you're ever in sydney, I'll take you up on that.

My year 12 physics teacher once said to me after I observed yet another anomaly and queried him regarding it, ''benjamin, you are the brightest student I have ever had the pleasure to teach, and I hope to god you pass your exams''

and cheers to that.

[Michael John Nunnerley]

sorry, I posted this before I saw your reply Peter, I will look at the vid again and come back to you

[Inquorate]

sweet

Pendulum kinetic energy converted into rotational force above / below axis creates lift or pulls down. Got it.

Balance needs to be when pendulum is in position as held by latch mechanism, so that the moment it swings out, there is a weight bias away from the fulcrum. Got that now too.

Thanks guys. I couldn't sleep.

@ Peter - I took a look at your manuscript again.. Uncanny isn't it.

// I start building it tomorrow. I'll try make it look less like homer simpson's spice rack than my veljko oscillator did.

Love and light