The Mechanical Engine

[marxist]

thanks and added thoughts

Hi CloudSeeder,

Thank you for recognizing value in the idea I presented yesterday. Since it contains the 'smack plate' (disguised as a ramp) of your 'fire wheel concept' I had an inkling that you might like what was presented and would understand it.

The concept also draws from Peter Lindemann's statement that the wheel had to run RELATIVELY slowly with the pendulum having to be RELATIVELY fast, so that smack-plate and pendulum impact each other with a maximum difference of speed.

This is where 'inertia' plays it's role with the wheel's mass (revolving slowly) absorbing the speed of the impacting pendulum, gaining speed from it as a consequence (provided the ramp is properly oriented).
'The wheel feeding from the pendulum', one might say.

Please note, that in order to achieve the desired max. difference of speed at impact, the ratio of the size/circumference/diameter of the wheel to the length of the pendulum is probably an important factor.
I hope we can determine the ideal proportions.

You have mentioned several benefits which might be achieved when this design is properly thought through.

Maybe there is one more point:
If the pendulum gets lifted up due to collision with the ramp, it's center of mass (COM) will be lifted up too.

We know that a lot of wheels stop, because their center of mass moves below the axle/hub of the wheel during rotation.
Due to the lifting of the center of mass of the impacting pendulum, it might be possible to dynamically maintain the center of mass of the whole system above the axle - thus avoiding 'keeling'.

Three more side notes:
- See also posting of LarryC in a gravity related thread at overunity.com:
New accelerating gravity wheel ! Converted video from www.newenergymachine.com !
containing the term "Centrifugal slam capture".
- What I describe only consists of reordered musings of other people.
- I think 'intellectual property' is a detrimental concept.

[Inquorate]

Inertia

@ Ted - re: inertia,

I discussed inertia in dmonarch's radiant matter thread, the beginning of Aromaz's joint research thread, my beating Lenz's law thread, and bodkins' primary physics thread.

That's a fair bit of skimming for my posts; I want to collect it all as a txt and post it but I can't cut and paste from webpages on my phone..

Still, it's waaay worth it...

If you or someone else has the time, and can copy the text into a doc file as you find the posts, I'd be reeally grateful.

Love and light

[Peter Lindemann]

DePalma

Thanks Ren, I'm a big fan of Walter Russell too, as you can tell. I don't understand half of what he's talking about, but the half I do has proven to be right on the money. Him and Schauberger have been a big help to me in understanding the forces of physical movement.
What I'd like to understand better is the mechanism of inertia. That would really frost the cake.

Cheers,

Ted

Ted,

If you want to understand the properties of Inertia, you have to read the work of Bruce DePalma. There are links here: Free Energy | Bruce DePalma to his major articles.

Keep up the great work.

Peter

[Ted Ewert]

Great descriptions Ted, reminds me exactly of some of the texts I have read from Walter Russell, especially the "equal forces of unequal volume" or as Russell says "Interchange between unequal opposites".

Diagrams by Walter Russell seen here in regards to a battery, but there is others there of similar principle. Ive been reading quietly and following along as best as I can, you guys are doing great, I feel there is so much potential in this thread.

Keep up the good work.

Regards

Thanks Ren, I'm a big fan of Walter Russell too, as you can tell. I don't understand half of what he's talking about, but the half I do has proven to be right on the money. Him and Schauberger have been a big help to me in understanding the forces of physical movement.
What I'd like to understand better is the mechanism of inertia. That would really frost the cake.

Cheers,

Ted

[ren]

Hi Mike,
I understand that your explanation of centripetal and centrifugal force is what is now taught in most academic institutions. However, I have found the model of two equal forces to be much more beneficial in my understanding of rotational phenomenon.
I completely agree with Ben when he says that they teach rubbish in school. Modern physics relies far too much on the Newtonian model, which plain doesn't work for angular dynamics. It sort of works for slower speeds, but completely falls apart when you analyze devices such as a Hilsch vortex tube.
IMHO, the absolute essence of the natural universe is duality. Light and dark, hot and cold, north and south, expansion and contraction, centripetal and centrifugal forces... North is not less south, just as light is not less dark. Centripetal force is not the only force in a rotational system. All motion is curved and all motion contains both centripetal and centrifugal forces.
I spent a lot of time studying vortexes. If you look at a satellite photo of a hurricane, you immediately see this giant vortex with a little hole in the middle. The hole is the centripetal portion, the rest is the centrifugal portion. The forces are equal in strength, but unequal in volume. This is one of the very interesting aspects of these two forces.
Without getting into a whole discussion of Nature, I just wanted to say that I find the model of two distinct, but different, rotational forces to be much closer to what I find experimentally than the bazaar model I see being taught by physics teachers these days.
My two cents anyway...

Cheers,

Ted

Great descriptions Ted, reminds me exactly of some of the texts I have read from Walter Russell, especially the "equal forces of unequal volume" or as Russell says "Interchange between unequal opposites".

Diagrams by Walter Russell seen here in regards to a battery, but there is others there of similar principle. Ive been reading quietly and following along as best as I can, you guys are doing great, I feel there is so much potential in this thread.

Keep up the good work.

Regards

[CloudSeeder]

@Ted: We were moving once and some metal shelving had to be taken apart. The bolts were very hard to turn so the screwdriver slipped, peeling off some metal slivers that shot up directly into my eye. Hospital magnet pulled em out. I've had lots of stuff like that (off the wall) happen to me, like when the Rose Dragon Chemical Corp copper cuprate powder splashed up hitting me directly in the eye, or the plaster dust in the bag that hit me square in both eyes when I shoved the bags out of my way. Molten metal? It didn't miss me either. Burned through my boot and set down between my middle toe and the next, burning a crater that later got infected.

I'm happy for you that all that stuff misses you.

@Marxist: Exemplary, dear fellow. I was wanting to do that earlier but couldn't quite parse it out just how to do it. So when the pendulum walks the dog up the slope it returns with a vengeance => FREEFALL IMPACT not just ease down. That will give you much more force than the simple downward pendulum action itself. I do believe this, that your innovation has just put the whole project enormously ahead. That may very well be the hammer Peter keeps saying is needed... because it will drop down and smack bottom at the right time maximum hammer in the direction of wheel spin.

You deserve a medal today 04/13/2009:
Full Force Pendulum Power
by Marxist

Genius Extra Point, pulling the opposite pendulum closer to the hub.
Genius 3rd Point: Opposite Pendulum adds to Impact.
Whew. Pull the Hammer Down, Bandit.

Unless I'm mistaken you just tripled rotation speed.

[Inquorate]

Ropes

Looking at marxist's photos made me think of putting an un-taut rope between the two pendulums. When the swinging one at 1:30 is near max velocity, the rope becomes taut and pulls the one at 7:30 back to it's starting position.

This may be a way to transfer the torque to the other side of the wheel? Haven't thought it through yet..

Love and light

[marxist]

centrifugal to torque

Hi,

I hope the ideas of those working with cams will work out.
Beautiful work in spite of all the dangers. ;-)

I am also looking forward to more info from Peter Lindemann about his proposed impact transfer mechanism.

I am also thinking about how a simple mechanism to utilize the centrifugal force of a pendulum could look like.
My own thoughts about such a transfer mechanism from centrifugal force to tangential (= driving) force are as follows:

To utilize the centrifugal force it might make sense to make a pendulum "run up a slope" while it is swinging towards the rim/perimeter of the wheel.
Why?
Because in this way it may be possible to use the centrifugal force to lift the weight of the swinging pendulum up (a little bit) taking the weight off the pivot point, thus creating a tangential force at the impact point where the pendulum and the slope meet, which will increase the torque.

Maybe the attached images can convey the idea.
The image 'phase1' shows a pendulum hanging on its (red) pivot point.
The image 'phase2' shows that this pendulum got lifted up because of it's impact/collision with the dark grey ramp.

The additional image 'system01' is meant to show two pendulums of such kind working together.

[sucahyo]

replication progress, 50%

Still trying to replicate it, but WM2D interface make this hard. Here is the video, showing the need to change the release timer:
Send big files the easy way. Files too large for email attachments? No problem!

source file, just 17Kb, I wish I can just attach this file:
Send big files the easy way. Files too large for email attachments? No problem!

[Ted Ewert]

@Mike, I rescued those sliders from some equipment that was being recycled a while back. They were so old that the grease was all dried up. They also required a fair amount of modification since they were double tiered sliders with all kinds of locks and stops. I cleaned all the old grease off and lubed them with some "Slick 50". They move really easily now.
My cam is intentionally less than 180 degrees so I barely get three of the weights on it at once. This should be sufficient for my purposes.
Didn't get much done today since Easter made it family time. I'm building a jig for my router so I can cut smooth arcs in plywood for the bearings to ride on. I'll rough out the pattern with my jigsaw, then smooth it out with the router. It doesn't take much to hang one of those little bearings up.
@Cloudseeder, thanks for the kind words. However, safe is not the first word that would come to mind when I think of my shop. I'm lucky that I still have all my fingers, although I've tried to cut them off a number of times. I've also had lethal projectiles from the tablesaw whistle past my head and embed themselves in the wall behind me. I've had sharp pieces of metal get jammed in the drill press and start swinging around wildly at a high rate of speed while slicing whatever flesh got in the way. I was pouring molten lead just a couple of days ago when the lead hit a drop of water left in the bottom of the mold. This caused a small explosion as the water instantly turned to steam and blew molten lead straight up and out of the mold. Luckly I was off to the side at the time. No, my shop is a lot of things (a mess being most common) but I wouldn't call it safe. It is fun though.

Cheers,

Ted

[CloudSeeder]

Strategically-placed Weights for Overcoming Negative Spots

@All: I was just thinking today that once you all have a few of these babies running perhaps the videocamera #1 can capture any of the negative-direction moments on film. You can then #2 slow the film down enough to see where those moments are happening more exactly. And if #3 changing springs and any of those other refinements don't quite do the job you might could #4 place some weights on the opposite side that might tend to deaden the negative.

[Michael John Nunnerley]

@Ted
Hi ted, like the photos, your sliders are the same as mine and I meen the same, they must have come out of the same china factory my wheel weights are one of the same, external cam and wheel, but I have left on the bolt sufficient to put extra weight if I need too. I was thinking of the diameter of the cam wheels, I think that it might be important, the smaller they are the more revolutions they will make and visa versa There is one point that I am sure of and that is the cams must be fluid like I have shown you in the last drawing which I did on my cad program. The pivot point should be ,how I see it, at a little past 5 o'clock and a little before 1 o'clock on the internal cam. The pivot is important, this is our lever effect and the power is amplified from one side to the other, no laws broken here, only using old tech: but the possible gain, AT the moment we do not know, is the gain of momentum of circular motion That is to say we will have to rotate the system to X revs to possibly have an extra gain in the system!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am away for 5 days from thursday, my sisters 25th wedding an: in Malagar where she has an apartment so I do not know if I will finish the machine before, we will see. Just one other point, I think that the sum of the weights in the off balance part should be equal or more than the whole of the system
without all of the weights, if you understand what I am saying, think about it

Mike

[CloudSeeder]

@ Ted: Nice plywood, nice camera, nice work => very detailed and looks v/accurate. And your work space looks safe too.

[Peter Lindemann]

Back to Basics

Seems a spring isn't as good at converting pendulum swing to wheel rotation as a full stop. So I'll be swapping the places of the rubber springs with my (really ineffectual) dampers..

With several kilo weights (the ones I'm using are just half to each pendulum of the bolts I was using before on just one pendulum) on the pendulums, and a full set of them - plus much much stronger pivot points and stoppers, and a less wobbly wheel / axle connection ... I have hope that there is greater than say 30 percent chance this thing will work.

Hot diggidy.

YouTube - experiments with two pendulums, part 1 of 2

YouTube - 2 arms part 2

Ps, Ted love your wheel. Looks orders of magnitude more well built than my own feeble effort

Love and light

Inquorate,

Your latest films show a demonstration of a simple "over-balanced wheel" where gravity sets and re-sets each weight every 180 degrees. My article, The Mechanical Engine, does an exhaustive explanation of why this does not work, and never will. You may wish to review it again.

I built dozens of these and they all failed for the same reasons. The real reason your experiment works better with a soft "thud" landing of the weight is that the wheel attains "mass redistribution" sooner, and therefore can rise higher on the second half of the cycle where the energy is consumed again. Your conclusion that "springs don't work" is not universally true. Having abandoned the cam release and transient excursion, you have stepped back into old territory that only leads to failure.

My test wheels could turn 10 revolutions if I put 2 GRAMS of force on the wheel for one quarter of a revolution. Your bearings have to be quite free for this work. I recommend you add some light oil to them and work them by hand until they spin smooth and free. Second, take all of the mechanisms off the wheel and do a critical balance on the wheel, all by itself. Place small weights on the wheel as necessary (I used washers taped on the perimeter) until the wheel will spin for at least one minute and stop in ANY POSITION, from a light nudge. This is the point of true balance for the wheel. THEN, add your structures to the wheel, and with all of them restrained in identical positions, balance the wheel again. Only at this point are you ready to run your tests.

If the system cannot harness the Kinetic Energy transfer mechanism of "elastic collision" as illustrated by Newton's Cradle (see YouTube: YouTube - Newton's Cradle ) then this style of system has little hope of success. There has to be a GAIN mechanism that is clearly identified and harnessed by the design.

I like that you need to test and see each step for yourself. You are self-directed, and a very quick study. So please don't take any of my comments as criticism of you. I am simply trying to give you the benefit of my tests and analysis to speed your learning process.

Keep up the great work.

Peter

[Inquorate]

More to share.

Seems a spring isn't as good at converting pendulum swing to wheel rotation as a full stop. So I'll be swapping the places of the rubber springs with my (really ineffectual) dampers..

With several kilo weights (the ones I'm using are just half to each pendulum of the bolts I was using before on just one pendulum) on the pendulums, and a full set of them - plus much much stronger pivot points and stoppers, and a less wobbly wheel / axle connection ... I have hope that there is greater than say 30 percent chance this thing will work.

Hot diggidy.

YouTube - experiments with two pendulums, part 1 of 2

YouTube - 2 arms part 2

Ps, Ted love your wheel. Looks orders of magnitude more well built than my own feeble effort

Love and light