What do I need to know to build a good lead acid battery?

[amigo]

I just remembered I had something on the subject and I think everyone will be interested in the following title:

Understanding Batteries.pdf

Enjoy...

[ren]

Nice Jet. But yes, not the sort of thing that you want to be experimenting on @ that price.

Just an afterthought. I went to a friends birthday the other day where I met a guy who makes his own shot (tiny ball bearings for re-filling shot gun shells, hes a clay target shooter).

Basically he boils down lead and feeds it through his little heated press which squirts it out into the appropriate gauge depending upon the nipples (lol, but thats what they are) attached.

He then cools it and coats it and off he goes. He gets lead from all around the place, including, get this, auto wheel shops (balancing weights). He reckons this is the best stuff, and sometimes shops will give you a whole bin for free. Im sure there are plenty of spots where one could obtain lead reasonably cheap. I guess the only issue then would be its handling during the various processes involved, as Im sure you are all jumping up and down right now at the thought of backyard lead brewries!

This could be good for a start, but the melting process needs to be considered with care. Here's one tip I learnt besides from the obvious. Dont cool hot lead in water! It explodes! Diesel is used! Crazy.

[Jetijs]

Ren, of course salvaging lead from old batteries and other things is way cheaper, but then you also need to find a company that can flatten that lead you have out into thin sheets. Anyway, this could be cheaper than buying those sheets already made. Also I have some experience with melting, forming and cooling lead. Lead cools rather quick by itself, so no water cooling is needed. But I have also tried to pour some molten lead into a bin of water, it just solidifies quickly into small chuks. Did not experience any explosions (thank god), maybe because I poured the lead into water in a small stream. Anyway, thank you for the warning

[ren]

No Worries mate, maybe the guy was pulling my leg, he looked pretty serious however. Perhaps the diesel is used in the particular case of lead shot only.


Anyway, something to think about.

[Jetijs]

There might be some truth in it, because as I experimented with boiling gasoline, I found out that gasoline (unlike water) is a very poor heat conductor, this should be also true for diesel. In this case the molten lead can not cool rapidly as in water

[everwiser]

Buy an old fashioned cast iron waffle press and modify it for pouring molten lead into it. This would give you thick plates (durability) with more surface area (better capacity) than flat ones...Just an idea...

[cody]

hey jetijs,
Since your batteries are toast anyways, why not rip one apart and study how it was made. Then just copy the design. I would think you would be able to make an equivalent battery by matching all the specs of manufactured one.

[Jetijs]

Cody
I already know how they are made, there are plates with holes in them that are filled with that lead dioxide paste. But since I don't want to mess around with any other chemicals than lead and acid, I will try using just them (if I get some lead sheet for small scale experiment.

[Xenomorph]

good threat, maybe this can help

This video exlains the processes really well !!! (if you haven`t seen the vid yet of course). The master is also converting lead acid batteries into aluminum based batteries.

BatteryForming_2008_04_25_16_16_47.wmv

Good luck in your efforts!

[Inquorate]

Video

I don't suppose someone could upload that video to youtube or metacafe?

I like the waffle iron idea.. Just buy sinkers and harvest car wheel balancing weights

[Vortex]

observation reported incorrectly

Copper of any size stuck into a can with only water will yield
about 0.7 volts.

I incorrectly reported my observation about the Aluminum Can.
The 0.7 volts I reported was an old can that had oxidized inside due to
trying a beach solution at one time in that can.
The can was from some tests done a few months ago.

I tried a new can and it did not yield the same results. due to
the inside coating, which prevents much from happening.

Heating the can until the paint on the outside starts to blacken or a
little longer until the blackening starts to disappear is an effective method
to bust up the coating in the inside of the can.

[sigzidfit]

battery materials

Lead Products

Lead Sheets, Lead Plates, Lead Foil Value Added - Nuclead

Lead Foil

Peace
PJ

[Vortex]

Why do the amps level out?

I have a 2 foot 3/4" copper pipe surround by 2 16oz Aluminum cans cut in half
(total 4 pieces) wrapped spirally around the copper pipe with paper towel between them.
You must clean coating off the Al-can, else the Al-can is worthless.

Added one piece of Al-can, meter reads 10 mA.
Added second piece of Al-can, meter reads 15 mA.
Added third piece of Al-can, meter reads 15 mA.
Added last piece of Al-can, meter reads 15 mA.
I've used rubber bands to make over lapping contact between pieces good.

I have a 1.5 x 0.75 inch cell that meters 10 mA using copper wire, spiraled, and al-can,
but that has been charged with IRO and the 2 footer has not, but still?

I do not want to try charging the 2 footer until I understand what is going on
here. I want to evaluate a virgin cells for duration of power output.

Should not more surface area produce more amps?
Why is this 2 foot cell not outputting more amps?

Clues anyone, clue me in please?

Without Answers
Randy

[Jetijs]

Randy,
in order to get more amps, you need to increase the surface area of BOTH metals, not only the aluminum

[Vortex]

Randy,
in order to get more amps, you need to increase the surface area of BOTH metals, not only the aluminum

The surface area is not a one-to-one ratio between the two metals?

Ok, voltage has a limit as seen here Electromotive Series

Amps has a limit or ratio limit also?
Is there a table for that, what is that called?
It's hard to find answers without a LABEL to research the answers.
I've been stabbing in dark.

I would accept your answer Jetijs , but that means the ratio of copper to aluminum is 1 : 0.375
I had 4 - 6 inches each (spiral wrapped) aluminum pieces to cover 1 - 2 foot piece of copper.
From the readings it would seem Only 9 inches of aluminum is required to max out the obtainable amps from the 2 foot copper tube?
The 2 foot copper tube was still totally covered by the wet paper towel.

Crud
Randy