The Great Global Warming Swindle

[Peter Lindemann]

Excellent

Oh no! "Baited breath?" That sounds rather putrid, and brings to mind a person having breath that smells like stinky fish bait. Perhaps what you meant to say was "bated" breath, for which "bated" is short for "abated," meaning that you would be holding your breath as you wait for a reply. I wouldn't suggest that you actually do that, though, as you would probably pass out or die before deserving a reply.

Rickoff,

You make me laugh! Thanks for bringing some sanity back to this thread.

Ozy,

This thread is an archive of information in support of the Contrarian View of the current Climate Change issue. Those of us who do not believe in the CO2 caused Greenhouse Gas Warming theory are using this thread to collect public domain information in support of this view.

You are welcome to believe anything you wish about Climate Change, but please start your own thread to promote your position and let others who have a positive contribution to your thread post it there.

We promise not to argue with you in that thread. Please do not create an argument in this thread.

Peter

[aussieaussieaussie]

Let me first just 'clear that air' from Bolts1 post, you see I am not here to argue, only to point out obvious errors made by amateur journalists. These errors when spread will only do damage and harm. I am here to state the facts, so you can have an informed opinion. But hey if idiots attack, I defend with logic....

Anyhoo, Bolts1:
Commercial airliners store all their toilet waste in a tank below the toilet. This blue juice is removed from the plane with it lands. Look for the little truck with 'Waste Management Services' on the side next time you fly! I just wanted to clear that smelly air!

@Rickoff,
Thanks for your comical reply! It must of been a freudian slip, since I have been fishing a lot in the past week! Don't worry I am not going to hold my breath - it was intended as sarcasm. Another two week delay?

I am sorry Peter Linderman, I was just pointing out some obvious errors in Ash's claims and then the attacks & illogical dribble started.
I will try to make any further suggested corrections to a short response.

Thanks,

Ozy

[ashtweth]

Ok Ash your turn!

The Rain water sample was not collected from his roof.
The report says the sample came from a 15,000L tank. How else do you collect rain water into a tank such as this?
Also you only got back one result that was of any concern, so you want me to take a sample size of one and extrapolate that into a basis for your argument. WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING BROTHER?

We dont get news from one source,
Nexus and UFO weekly are not enough, you may need to research further.

cloud seeding has nothing to do with any thing we have stated.
Yes it does! You claim your proof is that airplane exhaust can not make a big cloud - not enough material so say. Cloud seeding, as in the ability of tiny particles to collected lots of water around them, explains it perfectly. Maybe you should understand what is going on up there before making bogus claims.

The only thing i am sorry about , its a shame you went into an off topic line here in Peter's thread, there is Geo- engineering research worth looking into which i know the people here who are not distractions will be interested in.
Off topic line? The thread is called "The Great Global Warming Swindle", your stupidity never ceases to amaze me!
As for your news well, Please tell us, I wait with baited breath...

As for your sorry behind, i think ill take mine and some others advice from PM's and let you distract yourself from now on.
Please do Ash, your comments are nothing but dribble. I have asked politely before and I will say it again - if you want to debate me on this subject you are going to have to do a little better then blowing Hot Air and illogical arguments, back up your claims mate with logic!

But I digress, my original intent here was to point out the disservice Ash is doing to the world.

He's all heart and no brains! You get people to investigate things that WE ALL SHOULD be investigating by developing your website and posting some information. But what happens is they only get a few sentences in and they are presented with a picture like this:

http://www.panacea-bocaf.org/ole_215.jpg

Of which you claim is caused by chemtrails reacting with HAARP.

Anybody with half a brain has just left your webpage, never to return or be enlightened by the other (yet to be discovered) earth shattering information found on the website.

This is a very common cloud formation that can be found DAILY in Northern Australia, I have a picture that I took in Darwin in 1985 that looks identical and having worked up in that region, I can state, that I saw clouds like this every day!

Heres an idea, show your chemtrail page to a meteorologist, or heck any pilot or captain of a boat knows it too. The images that they laugh out loud at, these are the ones that should be removed.

I only used the above image as an example, there are others, got me laughing fairly hard for 10 whole minutes!

Your credibility Ash, if you ever had any, has long since disappeared.
I suggest you work on your credibility, this would be the best way you could help save the our environment.

If you need any help cleaning up your website, just let me know, I am always happy to assist - for the environments sake.

You got a good heart Ash, you most certainly got passion, now go out there and get some intelligence to match!

Ozy

Your a certified dummy, there are 4 different samples listed there on the report, Tank, Rain water and bottle listed there even stated on Ray's web page(Panacea volunteer) who is a marine biologist who took rain water samples out side also. Many others have confirmed Al and Barium not just us.

Sorry, i had to interject and my creditability makes you look like an ANT. Your a joke mate. Shoot off at the mouth with no idea.Sorry i could not resist. It is not often i feel the need to express that, i especially am never polite to people..like you mate. i never will need to be. Dont feel bad if your REALLY ignored from now on, LOL sorry to have to call this guy what he is guys . And let me please say whoops and sorry for mentioning the relevance or connection in climate science with the chem trial issue that was for another thread sorry about that guys

sincerley
Ash

[Joit]

Altitude of Planes.

That is something what bother me since a while.
The last Days, Weeks i saw more Planes flying at very high Altitude with very short Trails.
Special last Weeks, there been Days, where been absolute no Trails,
and the very next Day in the Morning, there been plenty,
even when both Days been average Summer Days.
And the interesting Thing was, there was this one Plane at a very high,
what did not make a Trail, just a short one from about 20 Plane lenghts.
But the Rest of the Sky was crowded from Trails.

For Pictures, you cant compare them from 'before 20 Years',
because they did look the same. It is only guessing, it can be the same,
but there is No Proof for that.

I do remember the Trails from before 25 Years what there been,
and they been ALL very short.
There been no Planes what did make Trails from 100 - 150 Miles and more,
what change into Clouds, what do grow bigger and bigger
till they cover the whole Sky.
it is absolute brainwashed to think, it is a condensing Effect
from humidity or flushing Toilets.
Even, 'Because my Science Journal do tell me, that it is'.
And that is the Crack Point from the Peoples today,
they only trust at her Books and Journals, but cant compare anymore,
what is real or faked with some lousy Explanations,
but they go cry for her Truth what they been teached,
and mostly it is only for her Ego.

It is actually ridcoulus to point out to any Science Journal,
I did never read any usefull in it, what the Lame-media dont wanna see.
Also they twist the Science as they need it, and call it then Science.

Misc.
And in case you do realize, the first Post from this Thread
was made a long Time BEFORE the whole Discussion about Climate Change
was started at a broader public Scale.
There been only allways some Drops from Media, to prepare Peoples
to her Event at Copenhagen but no broader Discussion with the Public,
only behind hidden Doors with this so called 'Experts'
what turned out afterwards, what they been all Disinformants
and even not competend.

A few Things you can be sure about,
Climate Change does NOT come from man-made Co2,
as Science Journals and this Experts did claim.
The whole Reasons they did give out till now, go on with
and try to argue with, are complete BS.
Chemtrails IS a real Program what they did start at ~2000,
and renewed it the last Months for prevent 'Global Heating'


-
Note beside, as i pointed out at other Places.
The Earth has a lot of Cycles between Cold and Warm,
Where is the damn Point at it, to try to suppress this Cycles,
and keep a average stable Temperature.
(maybe because some Arabs feel her Butt to much global heated?)
The Nature have his own Methods to regulate the Temperature,
and for sure not spraying Chemicals into the Atmosphere,
or putting Tax on anything what looks like CO2,
and dont put Filters or do alternatives for the Dust,
with what they pollute us.
Noone need Taxes for that, but Solutions,
what Peoples could do, but Industry wont.
-

Scientist do not really know till today
what really cause Global Heating or cooling.
You can trow your Science Journals,
when you will look for reliable Results and not cooked one.

And for you, aussie, you looks like one from this CRU-Scientists-media-manipulaters what get fired,
but for sure not like a Scientist.
Scientists have an other Language as you have.
You do look more like a 18Year old, what is out for Trouble.

[Joit]

What still bother me further is, that they did sell a Lie a very long Time
and still do, with no backround, but a well considered Story,
and Peoples still believe in this Crap.


Maybe someone should quote a Science Journal from 1970,
where they did preach a Ice Age.

Global cooling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
1975 Newsweek article

An April 28, 1975 article in Newsweek magazine was titled [25] "The Cooling World", it pointed to "ominous signs that the Earth's weather patterns have begun to change" and pointed to "a drop of half a degree [Fahrenheit] in average ground temperatures in the Northern Hemisphere between 1945 and 1968." The article claimed "The evidence in support of these predictions [of global cooling] has now begun to accumulate so massively that meteorologists are hard-pressed to keep up with it." The Newsweek article did not state the cause of cooling; it stated that "what causes the onset of major and minor ice ages remains a mystery" and cited the NAS conclusion that "not only are the basic scientific questions largely unanswered, but in many cases we do not yet know enough to pose the key questions."

The article mentioned the alternative solutions of "melting the Arctic ice cap by covering it with black soot or diverting Arctic rivers" but conceded these were not feasible. The Newsweek article concluded by criticizing government leaders: "But the scientists see few signs that government leaders anywhere are even prepared to take the simple measures of stockpiling food or of introducing the variables of climatic uncertainty into economic projections of future food supplies...The longer the planners (politicians) delay, the more difficult will they find it to cope with climatic change once the results become grim reality." The article emphasized sensational and largely unsourced consequences - "resulting famines could be catastrophic", "drought and desolation," "the most devastating outbreak of tornadoes ever recorded", "droughts, floods, extended dry spells, long freezes, delayed monsoons," "impossible for starving peoples to migrate," "the present decline has taken the planet about a sixth of the way toward the Ice Age."[25]

On October 23, 2006, Newsweek issued a correction, over 31 years after the original article, stating that it had been "so spectacularly wrong about the near-term future" (though editor Jerry Adler claimed that 'the story wasn't "wrong" in the journalistic sense of "inaccurate."').[26]




The idea of a global cooling as the result of global warming was already proposed in the 1990s.[29] In 2003, the Office of Net Assessment at the United States Department of Defense was commissioned to produce a study on the likely and potential effects of a modern climate change, especially of a shutdown of thermohaline circulation.[30] The study, conducted under ONA head Andrew Marshall, modelled its prospective climate change on the 8.2 kiloyear event, precisely because it was the middle alternative between the Younger Dryas and the Little Ice Age. The study caused controversy in the media when it was made public in 2004.[31][32] However, scientists acknowledge that “abrupt climate change initiated by GIS melting is not a realistic scenario for the 21st century

Yeah Aerosols. Of course, sure.

It actually only shows how helpless this Journals and Medias are,
when they should provide reliable Informations without making a Drama with it
at her 'War for more Disinformations'

[aussieaussieaussie]

Only once Joit, Only Once Will I Do This..

Hi Joit!

Altitude of Planes.

That is something what bother me since a while.
The last Days, Weeks i saw more Planes flying at very high Altitude with very short Trails.
Special last Weeks, there been Days, where been absolute no Trails,
and the very next Day in the Morning, there been plenty,
even when both Days been average Summer Days.
And the interesting Thing was, there was this one Plane at a very high,
what did not make a Trail, just a short one from about 20 Plane lenghts.
But the Rest of the Sky was crowded from Trails.
Please try to understand that weather varies considerably with altitude and time(hours), if you ever had the opportunity to step outside when your flying you would understand. It's below zero temperature and very little air so exhaust expands a lot more then you think. Thats before we mention the hurricane winds! Every few thousand feet there can be a total change in weather.

For Pictures, you cant compare them from 'before 20 Years',
because they did look the same. It is only guessing, it can be the same,
but there is No Proof for that.
NO! I said I see these clouds daily my whole life! I loved these clouds and took many many pictures of them. I called them a stairway to heaven.

I do remember the Trails from before 25 Years what there been,
and they been ALL very short.
There been no Planes what did make Trails from 100 - 150 Miles and more,
what change into Clouds, what do grow bigger and bigger
till they cover the whole Sky.
it is absolute brainwashed to think, it is a condensing Effect
from humidity or flushing Toilets.
All these above mentioned ideas are absurd, the only thing you folks need to study is how clouds are formed. Weather 101... you know cloud seeding?

Even, 'Because my Science Journal do tell me, that it is'.
And that is the Crack Point from the Peoples today,
they only trust at her Books and Journals, but cant compare anymore,
what is real or faked with some lousy Explanations,
but they go cry for her Truth what they been teached,
and mostly it is only for her Ego.
To make an informed decision you must read both sides, I do, I read the journals and the internet claims and then I make an informed decision.
I never watch TV News because it is all social manipulation!

It is actually ridcoulus to point out to any Science Journal,
I did never read any usefull in it, what the Lame-media dont wanna see.
Also they twist the Science as they need it, and call it then Science.
You didn't get anything from it because you didn't understand it. Try a magazine like New Scientist, it reads all the journals and just gives you the best bits in laymans terms. DONT MIX SCIENCE JOURNALS WITH TV MEDIA ETC!!!!!!!! They do not mix! Science is facts, TV is spin entertainment. TV reporting on Science is NOT SCIENCE!

Misc.
And in case you do realize, the first Post from this Thread
was made a long Time BEFORE the whole Discussion about Climate Change
was started at a broader public Scale.
We have known about it for 50 years, we have been publicly debating for 20 years... so this thread means?????
There been only allways some Drops from Media, to prepare Peoples
to her Event at Copenhagen but no broader Discussion with the Public,
only behind hidden Doors with this so called 'Experts'
what turned out afterwards, what they been all Disinformants
and even not competend.
TURN OFF THE TV, and go read something with credibility! Nothing is behind closed doors, they just speak a language you do not understand.

A few Things you can be sure about,
Climate Change does NOT come from man-made Co2,
as Science Journals and this Experts did claim.
The whole Reasons they did give out till now, go on with
and try to argue with, are complete BS.
Chemtrails IS a real Program what they did start at ~2000,
and renewed it the last Months for prevent 'Global Heating'
Dribble.

-
Note beside, as i pointed out at other Places.
The Earth has a lot of Cycles between Cold and Warm,
Where is the damn Point at it, to try to suppress this Cycles,
and keep a average stable Temperature.
Just look at the many graphs available, we should be going back into an ice age but instead we are warming the planet faster then EVER before.

(maybe because some Arabs feel her Butt to much global heated?)
The Nature have his own Methods to regulate the Temperature,
and for sure not spraying Chemicals into the Atmosphere,
or putting Tax on anything what looks like CO2,
and dont put Filters or do alternatives for the Dust,
with what they pollute us.
Noone need Taxes for that, but Solutions,
what Peoples could do, but Industry wont.
Nature does have its own methods its called uncontrollable warming which = us dead.
The planet will cool back down in about 50,000 years and be fine!

-

Scientist do not really know till today
what really cause Global Heating or cooling.
You can trow your Science Journals,
when you will look for reliable Results and not cooked one.
So 1000s of scientists worldwide who researched for decades are all lying? The conspiracy aint that big, my tin foil hat friend!

And for you, aussie, you looks like one from this CRU-Scientists-media-manipulaters what get fired,
but for sure not like a Scientist.
Scientists have an other Language as you have.
You do look more like a 18Year old, what is out for Trouble.

So anyone who trys to tell you a different opinion is a MIB or 18!
The day you stop learning and listening to other people is the day you are dead in my opinion. You my friend are starting to rot!

Ozy

[Joit]

Most Questioning about the Contrails have a simple Answer.
There IS NOT something like 100 Miles and more Contrails,
no matter how much more you try to twist it and
to try to wind out.

The Rest of your Points are only laughable and not worth to answer,
and, as usual you twist the Points also as they serve you.
Looks more like, You should go Through YOUR answers,
and look what you dont understand here.

You are actually only such a waste of Time, aussie
And again, for your short-living Brain cells,
in case there are still any.
Scientists have no real Proof, what cause the Main Global Warming or cooling.
But there is a Big Bunch of misinforming Scientist, what claims
certain Reasons, and a opposite, what dont be heared and accepted,
but know, that this Truth as they common provide is simple not right too.
Both dont have the Answer for the Question of Global Climate,
and you Aussie dont wanna find the Answer here also
with all your insults and your childish Behave.

[aussieaussieaussie]

Joit, I said only once.

I am now only replying to actual arguments not deluded dribble!

I am not twisting anything simply talking from my experience as a well educated and passionately curious nature loving person. I was trying to help, but you are way way beyond my help.

Good Day.

Ozy

[Joit]

Hi Joit!


So anyone who trys to tell you a different opinion is a MIB or 18!
The day you stop learning and listening to other people is the day you are dead in my opinion. You my friend are starting to rot!

Ozy

This just shows your logical thinking behind.
You twist Facts to a 'different Opinion' and imply me,
THIS is the Reason, to say you are a Mib or 18.
NO. I said, YOU are a mentallly 18Year old MIB,
No matter what your Opinion is.



--Edit--
..with the Knowledge of 'creditable Scientific Journals'?
Sorry, but i cant stop laughing yet.

[Peter Lindemann]

Latest Projections

Hi Folks,

Here is a recent article from the BBC on this year's temperature trends. This article is interesting, not for its obvious bias, but for what the author DOES admit as fact. These include:

1) Until now, the hottest year on record has been 1998
2) They think factors in the slower warming may have been - a natural downturn in solar radiation; a small reduction in water vapor in the stratosphere

Anyway, its worth a read.

BBC News - Met Office says 2010 'among hottest on record'

Enjoy,
Peter

[Aaron]

@Ozy

Aus,

Little do you know the "cable news" and most other mainstream media in
the U.S. is PRO manmade global warming theory. They push the carbon
footprint agenda all over the place and it is woven throughout most
children's programming as well as sitcoms, and of course the movies.
If I used that garbage as my reference, I'd be agreeing with you.

I'm completely for moving towards a greener world, obviously, considering
what I enjoy spending most of my time on. I want to end the use of
carbon based fuels to reduce noxious pollution and breath cleaner air but
I'm not so naive to see a statistically insignificant TRACE GAS as being
so responsible for changing the entire climate.

All warming trends throughout history that we know of were FOLLOWED
by some increase in co2 and not the other way around. It is an effect
after the fact and not the cause.

In any case, Peter Lindemann started this thread so he calls the shots
here so he asked you to kindly please start a new thread and you should
respect his wishes. If not, your posts will be deleted and you'll be
removed.

Please do cry the old "censorship" claim because you're given an
opportunity to voice anything you want in your own thread and I'm sure
you will have some people posting references in support of what you
believe as they're certainly encouraged to do. So you can compile
a thread with references that support your viewpoint. You are not
engaging in respectful debate here, you are simply argumentative and
insulting. You're not respecting the forum posting rules and have not done
so through just about every thread you post in.

[Michael John Nunnerley]

Just a personal observation

Here where I live in the Med: I have noticed and recorded in the last 10 years that the winters have got colder and the summers have got warmer. Take this year we have had temperatures up to 45c in August where normally the max would be 41c, today in November we would normally have about 15c during the day and 10c at night, but we have 7c during the day and near 1c at night.

In 2000 when I came to live where I am now, I could eat outside all through the winter apart from two or three days, now it is impossible. So on one hand we have higher temperatures and on the other lower temperatures.

One other thing that has been noticed is the ocean here now has tropical fish which it did not have 10 years ago (mediteranean). The ocean has increased in temperature and has maintained that rise even in the winter months.

The other thing noticed is we have very long periods without rain and then when we have rain it is as though someone has turned a tap on full, that never used to be in the now 21 years I have lived in Spain.

Just some of my personal findings.

Mike

[Farmhand]

Hi all, i've been reading through this thread and I find it hard to believe some things have not been better defined.

For example. This.

Not sure who wrote this.

Yes, there IS a debate and always will be. And those quotes revolve
heavily around the fact that there is no real evidence to show manmade
global warming is a reality. So it went from 3 paid scientists to all of those
numbers, which is still a drop in the bucket.

But it was replied to with this, By aussieaussieaussie

No problem here, Yes, there are more than 3 but as the article I posted clearly explains - this amounts to a drop in a bucket compared to the many many many scientists who think Climate change is real.

It seems to be a bit silly for people to argue about things when they have different definitions for different things.

"Climate change" Can some lairy dairy scientist type guy define the term "Climate Change" because as far as I am concerned the climate changes constantly, every day, all day long. It changes day to day, year to year and so on there are cycles that go for centuries, and some that are shorter.

Are you taking into account the cycles that are normal and probably not related to CO2.

Seems to me to be MORONIC to concentrate on CO2 when there is all manner of pollution that is much worse, and we all know it too.

Sigh.

[ashtweth]

Hi Joit, Mike, AAron , Peter and ALL

Just stating for the record, I just got an update from Ray our marine biologist who did the water samples for us , he stated none of the rain was collected from his roof, this JOKE Aussie guy clearly didn't even see the other samples mentioned in black and white, yet makes these assumptions, waste of time. I not think i need to comment more on his idea of a cloud either.I dont suggest arguing with him.

BTW for those interested our volunteer did another measurement the other day as he has equipment from being a marine biologist, its was to quote "absolutely no water from roof or any other obstruction. . the water last Tues Wed here was 260ppm,". We have another weather stations now i wonder how spraying will effect weather, am sure its for another thread now .

@Mike, here we have had the coolest ever on record and the hottest also, but i dont know how hardcore this Aussie summer is going to be in Qld, i would not be surprised if we break more records this/next year. One thing is for sure never seen weather like this.

Ash

[ashtweth]

Aaron/ALL

The Radio just announced that Brisbane Aust may have the record of the first spring of 2010 having temperatures LESS then 30c, COOLING IS HERE....cool or hot, its not normal...