Condensation-Induced Water Hammer

[Aaron]

Stationary Trout by Schauberger

Stationary Trout by Schauberger:


from here:
Fish Swimming

[Vortex]

Stationary Trout by Schauberger:

Hi Aaron,

Holy FISH, batman !!
You're too much, Thanks.

This guy speaks of Trout (well he calls them fishes) TOO and Schauberger.
Dam-Up-Pressure-Motor speaks about the Impossible, the Paradox, the Incredible and the
Coanda plus Magnus Effects, interesting stuff.
English isn't this guy 1st language so the sentence wording is sometimes Off or hard to understand.

Randy

[ashtweth]

Guys some one sent me this.

3 Thermal Water Cracking Devices for making water into Hydrogen & Oxygen by heat alone


1) The conversion unit for furnace was in Texas military motorpool during
1950's. Inventor went to washington later, and demonstrated smaller boxed
unit to Senator, in gov garage.

11.-- Oil furnace runs on water - (a modification could be adapted to autos) Read Patent #2863499, Stainless steel tubing coil in fire pot heated with fuel oil initially only, 90 lb pressure water turns to super heated steam at 1500 degrees, goes through T fitting with oil and comes out spray nozzle as hydrogen gas torch. oil shut off, furnace continues to run on water, Patent office allowed only 50 % increase in efficiency with oil to be written, not what manuscript submitted. Electric motor with dual shafts run two 90lb oil hydraulic fluid pumps. The vibration of flowing steam molecules increases and enters shockwave effect as going into area of low ambient pressure air when exiting nozzle. Smaller unit built with fire brick, vertical tubing coil, valves, outlet ring of pores at bottom. Initial alcohol flame heat to 1500 degrees, then light off gases coming from circular burner ring.


2) Sorrenti Machinery's Free World Energy: Water Engine Sorrenti Patent CDN patent 2,054,007 basically mixes water and hydrocarbons, heats up to 1200 degrees C using exhaust heat to dissasociate the water and adds magnets as an aid and burns in internal combustion engine. He says in the patent, once heated up can increase water up to 100%.

Had one brief phone call with above but does not give out phone number and did not respond to emails. The Claim is that a 1978 Chrysler Cordoba was converted & able to run totally on water.

3 cRoberto Celis -- Hydrogasifier -- Engine exhaust heat dissociates water to H & O for fuel; WO Patent # 2007008091 Philippino Inventor 30% to 50% saving by adding thermo cracked water into engine.

Some inventors are the only ones that can get those inventions to work. Also it is possible that water cracking devices use up oxygen that needs to be replaced somehow.

[byjoveoldchap]

Stationary Trout by Schauberger:
from here:
Fish Swimming

Thanks for your input Aaron and the link. Unfortunately I cannot find the name of the author/site owner at The Art of Nature so I cannot refer to him by name.

I know you have contributed a great deal to all these forums Aaron and I would like to thank you for your contributions and your advanced and expert advice in the free-energy/electronics field.

Ref: the link.
I read through this author's story and I thought he had done a good job at arriving at his conclusions, but I believe that he hasn't really explained or understood it as fully as he should have. I will try to explain my reasons for believing this as quickly as possible.

In the section Pulling yourself up by your boot straps... he says,

Nor does any of the research I can find, explain how the trout extracts energy from the vortices

He later relates a statement by Viktor which explained this perfectly, yet he's missed the whole point!



Okay, he discusses the gills, the 'one-way surface' of the scales and also the fish curvature as being various methods that fish can use to create vortices, but he has still not grasped what I believe is vitally important and I feel certain is what Viktor specifically referred to.

The complex construction and especially the overlapping of the fish scales creates an undulating surface which is perfect for microscopic vortice to form at the rear of every single scale on the fish body, which must run into hundreds if not thousands!

We know that when you bend a fish in your hands, the scales protrude much more in the area of convex curvature but also collapse and reduce the effective area on the concave side. Therefore the convex side will produce larger vortices and the concave side smaller or zero vortices.

For that reason, I believe this diagram is not correct -
Fig. Fs07. scales offer resistance to upstream flowing water as the trout curves round the vortex

Anyway, that to me, explains exactly "how fish 'swum' as Viktor said

And if you don't believe me, ASK A FISH...!!!


Note:
Of course birds feathers also overlap and create a similar surface full of vortice-forming undulations and that is also why flown". and as a final note, I haven't spent two years studying or researching this and I don't have a degree in anything.

Power to the ordinary People!

ByJove!

[Vortex]

Thank you Ash.

Of the top of my head I thought temp/pressure are joined at the hip. You can not have one without the other.
I don't know a lot about high pressure steam but those figures seem to be very very wrong.
90 psi and 1500 f degrees is invalid, bogus or bs? See steam table

Some inventors are the only ones that can get those inventions to work. Also it is possible that water cracking devices use up oxygen that needs to be replaced somehow.

I wish I could follow up on this research, but I don't have the means to do so.
Yes it is sad that duplication can't be done or in the case of
this high pressure / high temp steam dangerous and generally
out of understanding and/or expense of individuals.

I'm hoping the work here can make use of the
friction steam generator and not require very high pressure steam.
This could put it within the reach of most people.

Duplication by anyone is key.

Randy

[byjoveoldchap]

This guy speaks of Trout (well he calls them fishes) TOO and Schauberger.
Dam-Up-Pressure-Motor speaks about the Impossible, the Paradox, the Incredible and the
Coanda plus Magnus Effects, interesting stuff.
English isn't this guy 1st language so the sentence wording is sometimes Off or hard to understand.

Randy

Wow, is that hard to read or what?

But an extermely clever guy, he has helped me a lot with Viktor's ideas. Did you see the heart shapes and half-hearts?
Think of the fish-scales above

[Vortex]

SteamFish2 ideas

Hi all,

I've not found anything for gasket material at home depot.
I looked at a rubber bath tub mat and a welcome mat.
Both had non-flat surfaces.
A tire inner tube would be good, I think.

I spent about 10 mins in the bath tub with SteamFish1, I was smelling kinda ripe so it wasn't a total waste of time.

The fish water hammered when the head was tilted downward, so it does have to remain level.

Here are my thoughts about SteamFish2 based of Alfred Evert's diagram, that's of a fish in case you couldn't see that.
Go to the web page to understand the diagram.
Main web page is here, because there aren't home page links.




My Acme Animal Translator 2000 arrived today.
It does 23 fishes languages and 47 dialects ..
But doesn't do Trout I'm sending this thing back.
I guess I have to keep paying that translator.

Keep thinking or just ask a fish.
Randy

[byjoveoldchap]

Keep thinking or just ask a fish.

Hi all,

I've not found anything for gasket material at home depot.
I looked at a rubber bath tub mat and a welcome mat.
Both had non-flat surfaces.
A tire inner tube would be good, I think.

Keep thinking or just ask a fish.
Randy

A cycle inner tube would be ideal and quite firm to handle. Other ideas are Marigold-type washing up gloves? - leather, wide elastic band, outer sheath from your telephone cable.

Randy, did you spot the connections to water-hammer on Alfred Evert's website? He connects this very well with Viktor's ideas with his Repulsine etc.. This effect is used very much indeed and Alfred really understands its importance.

Love your fish ideas and congratulate you on your perseverence, you are working in a very original field so you will have nothing to follow, it is all down to you!

[Allcanadian]

@Vortex
Concerning, the Stationary Trout by Schauberger, what is not mentioned is the true cause of the vortecies at the back of the trout. The de-oxygenated water from the fish gills is more dense and cooler than the water surrounding the trout. The ambient water moves towards the fish body-towards the cooler water and forms vortecies as well as a higher pressure at the back of the fish. I read an article about a generator in a lake in brazil, the lake had high concentrations of CO2 at the bottom, when the water was lifted in a pipe it warmed up and the dissolved CO2 seperated from the water--outgassing-- this drove the water upward and powered a generator. The same thing happens in the Stationary Trout, the de-oxygenated water from the gills forces the surrounding oxygenated water to outgass---inward toward the trout body much like an implosion and vortecies are formed. As well the gills open and close ensuring this process happens intermittently which is very important.
In fact Victor Schauberger depicted this very process where the difference in ocean water oxygen content on the surface and sub-surface would drive a generator, he was way ahead of his time 80 years ago, LOL. Simply put when gasses are dissolved in water it becomes more dense than when these gasses are not dissolved,outgassing,when the water becomes less dense.
Regards
AC

[Vortex]

Hi Allcanadian,

@Vortex
Concerning, the Stationary Trout by Schauberger, what is not mentioned is the true cause of the vortecies at the back of the trout. The de-oxygenated water from the fish gills is more dense and cooler than the water surrounding the trout. The ambient water moves towards the fish body-towards the cooler water and forms vortecies as well as a higher pressure at the back of the fish. I read an article about a generator in a lake in brazil, the lake had high concentrations of CO2 at the bottom, when the water was lifted in a pipe it warmed up and the dissolved CO2 seperated from the water--outgassing-- this drove the water upward and powered a generator. The same thing happens in the Stationary Trout, the de-oxygenated water from the gills forces the surrounding oxygenated water to outgass---inward toward the trout body much like an implosion and vortecies are formed. As well the gills open and close ensuring this process happens intermittently which is very important.
In fact Victor Schauberger depicted this very process where the difference in ocean water oxygen content on the surface and sub-surface would drive a generator, he was way ahead of his time 80 years ago, LOL. Simply put when gasses are dissolved in water it becomes more dense than when these gasses are not dissolved,outgassing,when the water becomes less dense.
Regards
AC

Yes thank you. Very good of you to bring it up for all others to be aware of and to remind me to remember it isn't simple. I knew of the layers/levels of density being a factor in the total scheme of things, but dang it gets so complex to take it all in and keep in mind all different factors/effects that are in play. I'm only trying to latch onto, find, determine, the major players and try to get those half-way working in hopes the others are less important to get something functional out of a device. I'm hoping the lesser factors are important in the "fine-tuning" only in that they do not prevent the goal from being obtained.

I had already changed my mind about SteamFish2 and the direction, see next post.
The magic happening with fish isn't just the fish design alone, it is as you brought up and more. The external vortexes in the water, boundary layers, etc.

Allcanadian, don't be a strange .. drop by any time.

Keep on thinking
Randy.

[Allcanadian]

@Vortex
I should have mentioned I have never tested the CO2 theory, this is what Victor Schauberger has mentioned in his books and stated was the basis for his "ocean water generator". As well I have found with Victor Schauberger's technology that it is never one process but rather many as you say. one effect produces another---implosion creates motion-motion creates vortecies-vortecies create low pressure and high--low pressure helps next implosion in a cyclical manner. There would seem to be quite a bit going on from what appears to be a simple action-reaction. I have done a few experiments with implosion and cavitation and they would seem to agree with Victor Schaubergers thoughts that an inward acting force or motion will always be the most efficient one.
Regards
AC

[Vortex]

Stack the Deck - Hearts Only

I'm hoping the Goal is:
Turn steam into kinetic energy in the form of a one way flow of water.

I realized I had lost focus of something really important. One Way Flow.
It's super easy to get kinetic energy in water from steam.
Just stick the steam pipe into water, you're done.
.. it's the one way flow that's important.

Tesla, Schauberger and others have already done the leg-work on this one way flow.

Stack the Deck with Hearts


A heart shaped device can be tested with compressed air for effectiveness.
I'm hoping a full-blown Telsa design is not required to archive one way flow.

link to Telsa patent

Keep on thinking
Randy

[Vortex]

Randy, did you spot the connections to water-hammer on Alfred Evert's website? He connects this very well with Viktor's ideas with his Repulsine etc.. This effect is used very much indeed and Alfred really understands its importance.

Yes I saw some of that. I've been trying to avoid Alfred as much as I can due to it is so very hard to understand the English version of his web site, yet I keep going back there. I'd probably do better if I started at the beginning and not jump into the middle somewhere, but his web site is soooo large.

... you are working in a very original field so you will have nothing to follow, it is all down to you!

No, Say it isn't so...
If that's the case then, Dang, beam me up ..

I hope I get something put together this weekend for testing
Randy

[Vortex]

Update

After the hearts version didn't work out, I created a larger
SteamFish1 version 2

Again this video is done with web cam and is poor quality.
Comments about what is hard to see in the video.
The video starts out just as 100% expanding air begins to have some steam in it.

SteamFish1 v2 video

The steam collapse is happening just fine... a little too fine in that it
is going back up into the steam tube some it seems, causing a delay
before the steam over comes the flood of water in the upper portion
and pushes the water back out of that area.

I've been told that on Thanksgiving I can make a non-web cam video, I'll
post that if it gets created.

I think the problem with the hearts version was the
openings were too large for the source of steam I was using and
I probably need a longer device with many more hearts .
Using a gasket bunched up and restricted what little flow there was.

Randy

[byjoveoldchap]

The steam collapse is happening just fine... a little too fine in that it
is going back up into the steam tube some it seems, causing a delay
before the steam over comes the flood of water in the upper portion
and pushes the water back out of that area.

I've been told that on Thanksgiving I can make a non-web cam video, I'll
post that if it gets created.

I think the problem with the hearts version was the
openings were too large for the source of steam I was using and
I probably need a longer device with many more hearts .
Using a gasket bunched up and restricted what little flow there was.

Randy

Nice work Randy.

It is interesting to watch the videos even though the detail is not there. It appears that there are pulses or jets but that could be reflections off the water?

Of course I have not tried this, but I would think the steam inlet needs to be in an area where the collapse will pull the water through and also have an area immediately following that with an increases in size? For example, on the diagram of http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/o...eamFish02s.jpg, you have marked 'pressure' and I would think that the steam inlet would work better if it were on the outside of the fish, immediately where the pressure arrow points. I also think the fish could be one continuos shape for initial testing, although an air entry may work inside instead of steam?

I have been building a simple put-put motor with a pair of jam jar lids soldered together and am learning more about the 'mechanical' action. However, the soft solder simply isn't holding out long, once I get a burnt out. It works okay while there is steam, but just not reliable enough. I need to gather my thoughts and also look at building a pulse jet as well.

Ref the hearts: I have attached a simple diagram showing the approx layout of fish scales at the bottom, which is also similar to roof tile construction!

Plus at the top is another image showing the scales [brown], looking edge on and how they overlap each other. This is my understanding of how the fish scales may be creating vortexes. I think it would be interesting to see if the top illustration would reduce friction, using in effect, two rows of scales. You'll notice it is similar to the old tapered clay water pipes that were used and which you illustrated elsewhere.

Maybe your half-hearts would look similar and perform better?