When is a Motor NOT a Motor?

[DavidE]

This is an interesting video... what he says in this video, is similar to many things being done here (at the EF).

YouTube - OverUnity Pulse Motor - Doug Konzen

[Matthew Jones]

I would still like to know what kinda motor your running, have you come an y closer to determining that?

Matt

[Sephiroth]

Seph

You can't read standing voltage while in charging mode (usually). This is one of the things that I am confused by. Once the 'reaction begins' the inductive spikes multiply and the ensuing electric storm causes an inability to read one value.

Normally, if I take a reading on a battery on all three scales (20) (200) (600) all show the same voltage... not when trying to take a reading during a charge session.

I believe that there is an external component that interacts with the circuit and the battery changing the relative possibility of a charging or amplifying session.

You can watch the voltages on the hv scale climb from 20 to 900 and far more, ebbing and flowing like waves of potential coming and going. It reminds me of waves on a beach. Slight to pounding surf depending on the driving weather phenomena.

The other day a session took out a 12v power supply and tripped a 15 amp breaker. Maybe I should go fishing...

so the voltage readings are unstable on both batteries while the device is operating Is that DC voltage?

[DavidE]

Matthew

"lymotor" seems to be the original manufacturer...



Not sure on the model (no identification).

Possibly...
DC Motor Models Rs - 380 / 385 Manufacturer exporting direct from China

[DavidE]

Seph

I always hate it when someone answers a question like this...but, Yes and No.

Sometimes I can get a reading on both batteries with very little variation (12.3-4v) of reading voltage. I have noticed this on my best conditioned batteries and my worst (weakest).

The other day I lined up my four test batteries... applied the charging circuit to each. Made note of each starting voltage. My first time through, the weakest battery gave me the lowest amounts and variations... then just a few minutes later, it gave me the highest and most active readings. Yes, earth was at a different vector victor...

That is why I am beginning to wonder what other factor might be interacting with the batteries.. i.e. the environment?

Another noteworthy factor, Imhoteps Relay Charger always gives consistent readings... even while charging. It is evident that it is drawing little and returning little in straight line fashion. I love the simplicity of it.

But I bumped into this other effect, I know that the load of the motor is MUCH larger, so I am completely clueless as to why it produces numbers so close to that of the Relay Charger. During the last test that generated the numbers in the sWITCH Charger... the hv voltage was very subdued. And even from that I was surprised with the final results.

I will do your test today and report...

[Matthew Jones]

Thats funny. I wonder why my 2 little 6 volt motors don't work.

It appears to have brushes, by the slots in the rear.

Do you see sparks in it when you run it? Do you have scope to check it with to see if its pulsing?

Matt

[DavidE]

Test Group three is with mods (cap), Test Group four is without.



Let me know what you see in the numbers!

When you see this code Z1S, B2CH... it just means Z1 battery being utilized as the SOURCE battery.
B2 battery is being CHARGED, and the number in that column represent values at the end of the test
period (either 5 or 15 min).

[Bodkins]

Seph

You can't read standing voltage while in charging mode (usually). This is one of the things that I am confused by. Once the 'reaction begins' the inductive spikes multiply and the ensuing electric storm causes an inability to read one value.

Normally, if I take a reading on a battery on all three scales (20) (200) (600) all show the same voltage... not when trying to take a reading during a charge session.

I believe that there is an external component that interacts with the circuit and the battery changing the relative possibility of a charging or amplifying session.

You can watch the voltages on the hv scale climb from 20 to 900 and far more, ebbing and flowing like waves of potential coming and going. It reminds me of waves on a beach. Slight to pounding surf depending on the driving weather phenomena.

The other day a session took out a 12v power supply and tripped a 15 amp breaker. Maybe I should go fishing...

Can i Come, Dont Bring Nat1971a hes alway lobbing stones in the water

i have one of these motors and fould the oriantiation of it makes a big difference to preformance

[DavidE]

Bodkins

I am not pro using the motor... I am just trying to understand how it works at all. What I find interesting with the test... the circuit does capture and store more potential and do more work... depending on the condition of the battery.

Yes, you can come fishing...

[DavidE]

Hmmm.

http://www.geocities.com/koneheadx/circuitdiagrams.html

[DavidE]

Seph

Here is what I found with the 1 hour test.

The batteries were left standing for 4 hours prior to the test then measured to give the start values below.

Batteries (1) Source, (1) Charge, 12v 5ah
Starting voltage for the source battery 12.43v.
Starting voltage for the charge battery 12.47v.

After a one hour cycle, the battery being charged was at 12.52v... after resting 1 hour settled at 12.51v.
After a one hour cycle, the source battery was 10.9v... after resting for one hour settled at 12.0v (what a bounce).

Both batteries were checked 4 hours after testing, and I can confirm that they held voltage noted.

Cost .43v
Gain .04v
Diff -.39v

I did confirm with this set up... and the batteries in the condition that they are... that it CAN raise the voltage of a battery at a higher standing voltage. It was noticeable during the test how the motor had significant less rpm's at the end of the test, when it was relying on the source battery that went into the 10 volt range.

What I have learned in all of these test is that the battery condition probably is the largest factor in achieving favorable results. Then the cycle time between charging and sourcing.

The next test will have a cycle time of 30 min and then I can string together 5-15-30 min test and produce a nice curve.

The thing that still has me puzzled... the Radiant Relay draws approx 10 mA, and although I can't measure the motors actual draw it must be at least 100 mA. If this is true, how can the device... needing so much more potential to work (10X), create the surprising net results that it has.

One other note... with multiple test cycles, source batteries exhibit a declining charge rate based on the condition of the source battery (based on draw of charging mechanism). Utilizing grid power for the charging function (or a large bank of batteries as a source) does seem to minimize this variable. Once we are clear what specific criteria produces the >1 results (pieces and parts), and understand the acceptable cycle time... this will likely cease to be a factor.

[DavidE]

Capacitors

If we are thinking in traditional electrical terms the current ratings for capacitors may be helpful or harmful. What have any of you found to be the most important factors (rating, size, etc) to catch this 'noise' potential.

I only say 'noise' because that is how the conventional electrical engineers term it... we here are finding a new kind of potential in this noise... hence we may have to create a new set of linguistic values to align our efforts.

Thoughts?


Interesting article about capacitors.
Reforming Electrolytic Capacitors

[Joit]

When you say, you gain still some V, I am about to take my Frontcooler from a car, connect it with 2 Batteries, place it inside a Tube, and put a Windgenerator at the other Side

[Bodkins]

If we are thinking in traditional electrical terms the current ratings for capacitors may be helpful or harmful. What have any of you found to be the most important factors (rating, size, etc) to catch this 'noise' potential.

I only say 'noise' because that is how the conventional electrical engineers term it... we here are finding a new kind of potential in this noise... hence we may have to create a new set of linguistic values to align our efforts.

Thoughts?


Interesting article about capacitors.
Reforming Electrolytic Capacitors

You say Noise! In My mind I was seeing my setup from inside Like Einstein pictured the thing he was doing before the numbers fit.
Last night i what flying thought the wires and hit a echo its was the Oscillation.


Reforming Electrolytic Capacitors

[patmac]

DavidE

That problems was frequently for me, the bigger problem for me at least is the matching impendance, to eliminate this inconient I was thinking use a big capacitor like a 1 Farad @ 24 volts to sendit to battery.

My better record was by using a batt charing smaller than power. Then you need maths to calculate really COP.

Using the smaller batt (2.5ah) like source and bigger (4ah), results was totally negative, after one hour charge battery don't get up nothing.

Another problem in my systems is amp draw, you need use amp meter and be sure amp draw C20 rate battery size. In my case 4ah/20 = 200ma amp drawing, When I corrected this problem my COP was more notable.