SSG Modification - Jonnydavro Hybrid design

[Burned_NE2]

Hi All

This is a continuation to Jonnydavro's DC Motor Hybrid circuit, all credit goes to Jonnydavro for coming up with the circuit

I have made a simple modification to my existing Bedini SSG setup which involves placing a small 12 Volt bulb where the DC motor would be (see attached circuit).

I have been driving the rotor of the SSG using a dead 12 Volt 7.5 Ah battery on and off for almost a week and the voltage doesn't seem to be dropping while still lighting the bulb, the bulb isn't very bright and pulsates.

Please refer to notes posted in the following link for more details: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...ead.php?t=2679

I was wondering if anyone else on this forum that has a Bedini SSG setup would be willing to modify their circuit and replicate what I've done to see if the results are the same, better or worse?

There's no need to run it on a dead battery of course, the only reason I'm using the dead battery is because it works

Currently there isn't any advantage to this setup other than having the appearance of being a self running circuit but I'm thinking that if this setup keeps going for another week I will try and add a window coil to it and see if additional energy can be generated.

Regards,
Paul

[gyula]

Hi Paul,

Thank you for publishing your findings on this very interesting circuit combination.

Would you mind doing some more measurements if your circuit is still at hand and you will have some more free time? This way we may get a further inside into this setup.

I wonder how much current may flow in the collector coil wire where you (or Jonnydavro) put a red dot (it is between the collector coil's upper end and the common point of the bulb+470uF cap). I know a correct real value is difficult to get, even with an analog ammeter because of the pulsed nature of the current. But then there must be a pulsed current at the battery + pole too where the ammeter symbol is indicated and I am interested in the relative amplitudes of the two currents, indicated by the same meter.

Then I would like also to learn about the voltage drop across your bulb and also the battery voltage at that time. You could use your low battery of course and it would be great to see some similar measurements with the better battery.

And lastly, I would like to know the current flowing through the flyback diode, where its cathode is connected to the common point of the ammeter and the bulb + 470uF cap (in the black wire from the diode 2 cathode).

I apologise for asking these but I do not have any SSG assembled at hand.

I have a theory on this hybrid circuit. I think there must be an optimal working (battery) voltage where the flyback pulse with its bulb's (or DC motors in case of Jonnydavro's) load produces nearly the same energy into its load that is being taken from the battery through the collector coil.

When this optimal (battery) voltage is found / reached, (and I would call this situation a matched case as the load (bulb or DC motors) is optimum for the flyback pulse), then the battery loading should be at the minimum possible or in a favorable case some energy surplus coming from the moving magnets may be able to maintain the battery voltage in equlibrium.
So your low battery's 6V or so output voltage may seem near to be the optimum for your particular circuit components, at least according to my theory of course...

Of course when the load is changed (say you use two bulbs or one with 6V voltage etc.) the optimum (battery) voltage value should also change, this could be observed by monitoring the current at the red dot I referred to above and the best match should be at a voltage where this current is at its minimum (for a given load) and any increase or decrease in the voltage will cause a current increase from this minimum current value.

This is how I think at present this hybrid circuit works and maybe I am mistaken, this can only be corrected by further measurements. Any input on this is welcome!

Thanks and keep up the excellent work.

rgds, Gyula

[Burned_NE2]

Hi gyula

I did the measurements to the best of my abilities with the analog meter and this is the results using the dead battery.

Collector coil to – of Cap 27.5 to 30 mA
Volts across bulb 2.6 to 2.75 V
Battery + to + of Cap 34 to 36 mA
Diode 2 – to Battery + 2 to 2.5 mA

The dead battery has been running the SSG circuit since yesterday at noon to today 6:00 PM and went from 6.4 to approximately 6.25 Volts so it does drop somewhat over an extended run.

The battery, circuit and coil are at ambient temperature still and the rpm is at 40.9.

I usually don't let the circuit run during the night unattended but decided to let it go last night because so far during the last week it's only been run during the daytime from anywhere between 8 - 16 hours at a time (about 12 hours on average).

I have not taken any of the above measurements using the good battery as I want to continue using the dead battery in the circuit and wanted to disturb it the least as possible during it's continued test run.

Regards,
Paul

[gyula]

Hi Paul,

Thank you for the measurements.

I would have expected much higher current coming from the flyback pulse through diode 2, even if allowing for pulse current measuring problems with analog meters too, the current ratios more or less should indicate reality.

So the voltage drop across the bulb (abt 2.7V) is mainly caused by the current coming from the low battery; the transistor switch receives any current via the bulb and the resistance of the bulb seems to be around 96 Ohm (2.7V/0.028A). The flyback current can contribute very little for feeding the bulb.

I think my theory outlined in my previous post is to be modified with respect to an optimal voltage for the present circuit because now I see that to expect high flyback energy recovery the position of the load (bulb) in the circuit ought to be modified so that the voltage drop across it be possibly avoided.
Of course I do not wish any of you to modify the circuit in which now the current from the battery can reach the collector coil via the bulb (or the DC motors) only, hence the voltage drop across them reduces the effective potential for getting high flyback energy back.

However, there is a factor I have to consider when the load is one or two DC motors like in Jonnydavro's circuit because the motors can rotate the magnets much faster hence the magnets' inducing effect can also be much more significant at the higher RPMs, especially with strong Neo magnets.

This is all I can add at this stage, thanks again, and happy tinkering.

rgds, Gyula

[Burned_NE2]

Hi All

Well I just wanted to report the latest results after 48 hours of running the Bedini SSG using the Hybrid design with the small bulb.

Start 09/19/2007 12:00 PM to 09/21/2007 12:00 PM = 48 hours
Battery 12 Volt 7.5 Ah Battery = Old and pretty much dead
Bulb is rated at 14 V 0.10 A

Start voltage = 6.4 Volts
End Voltage = 6.15 Volts
Volts across bulb finished at 2.55 to 2.65 Volts (down a bit from yesterdays 2.6 to 2.75 V measurement).
RPM finished at 38 from over 40 at the start.

Any help calculating this part would be greatly appreciated:

1. How much total battery power was consumed in the 48 hour test?
2. How much power was produced/consumed across the bulb in the 48 hour test if we had an average of 2.5 V?
3. How much power would it take to turn the over 2 pound rotor at an average of 38 RPM during the 48 hour test?

Maybe my next step will be to build a recovery coil such as Rick Friedrich's setup of the Bedini School Boy Self-Runner seen at Directory:Bedini SG:Self-Runner - PESWiki .

Regards,
Paul

[Sephiroth]

The only thing I can tell you for certain is that 37620 joules was "consumed" over the 48 hour period.

You get this figure by first calculating your watts and then multiplying the watts by the number of seconds it ran for.

Calculating the power disipitated by the bulb is a bit trickier since it is not running on it's rated voltage and being pulsed. I think we may need the amps measured between the positive connection of the cap and the battery to the bulb.

If I was to guess by knowing the voltage across the bulb (2.5v at 35ma from the primary battery) then the total joules "consumed" by the bulb would be 16330 joules.

Impossible to know how much energy was required to run the rotor I'm afraid. For that we would need to know the load on the rotor which would be a combination of friction from the bearings and wind resistance. Theoretically a 2 pound 28" rotor could spin at 40 rpm forever with just half a joule input if there was no resistance

[Burned_NE2]

Hi Sephiroth

Thank you for taking the time to do the calculations I'm afraid I'm out of my depth when it comes to that end of things

I took a look around and found that even if I added up all the Joules you calculated it came out to approximately 0.014986111 kilowatt hour so I guess it's not going to power my house anytime soon

Anyway I'll still look into try and build a recovery coil to see if it can recover or generate extra energy.

Regards,
Paul