The bistander thread

[BroMikey]

I suspect that the geometry of the 22 rotor magnets with 5 core positions will in itself reduce cogging enough that you won't bother to use that method of magnetic neutralization. But the increase in core loss will give you fits at high speed.

You clearly do no understand magnetic cancellation. It means you can spin a rotor with one finger to free wheel in the off condition, where without the use of cancellation might require a pipe wrench to break the locked rotor. Also all of the way up to speed rotors without magnetic cancellation need many times more energy to run.

You can not confuse this issue no matter how hard you try. You are a dividing, hateful person who daily shows his hate for all of us. Shame. You have failed once again switch hitter. Filled with all manner of wickedness.
Romans 1:27 even the men turned from the natural use of the woman, men with men.... being filled with All ungodliness. It is written and you have been pegged.

[Turion]

Didn't answer the question did you? This is what you always do when you know you are wrong. Avoid the issue and attempt to twist my words around. Pitiful.

[bistander]

The fact that YOU haven't seen it does not invalidate the truth. So which is it bi. Either adding coils with core mass DOES affect the output of the motor, or it does NOT. Take a stand. Don't depend on semantics to cover for your lies. Let's hear it. I say when you add coils to the machine it causes the motor to draw more amps because of the rotor magnets attraction to the coil cores. This is what I have always said, and why I believe magnetic neutralization is so important. State YOUR position. Fish or cut bait.

Turion,

Show me where I have ever discussed adding coils and how that affects the performance. I haven't. We went around about mass of rotor and Newton's Law. But not coils.

Anyway, since you asked, adding cores will increase core loss and cause increased input torque at rated speed which increases shaft power resulting in increased current in the dc drive motor. A blanket statement to the addition of coils isn't forthcoming because the affect on shaft input depends on how the coils are connected. If the additional coils are used to increase the electric load on the generator, then the shaft power will increase causing the drive motor to pull more amps.

Now, again, show us where I've said or written this:

... You've said that adding coils with core mass does not negatively affect the motor. You have stated that "at speed" they make no difference to the operation of the machine. ...

Regards,
bi

ps: I am curious to see how you apply the opposing magnets like you used for magnetic neutralization with the twelve coil machine to this ten coil version. I suspect that the geometry of the 22 rotor magnets with 5 core positions will in itself reduce cogging enough that you won't bother to use that method of magnetic neutralization. But the increase in core loss will give you fits at high speed.

Good luck.

[Turion]

The fact that YOU haven't seen it does not invalidate the truth. So which is it bi. Either adding coils with core mass DOES affect the output of the motor, or it does NOT. Take a stand. Don't depend on semantics to cover for your lies. Let's hear it. I say when you add coils to the machine it causes the motor to draw more amps because of the rotor magnets attraction to the coil cores. This is what I have always said, and why I believe magnetic neutralization is so important. State YOUR position. Fish or cut bait.

[bistander]

You've spent much of the time I have known you on the forum pushing the big lies that magnetic neutralization and coils that speed up under load are worthless, meaningless, and of no use. ...

Those are not lies and any reasonable test has, and will, support those statements from me.

... You've said that adding coils with core mass does not negatively affect the motor. You have stated that "at speed" they make no difference to the operation of the machine. ...

I've never said that. Show me the quote and source. Otherwise, that is another lie from you.

... You know you are wrong. You know it's a lie. You spend all your time trying to sidestep by focusing on semantics rather than concepts, because you can argue semantics, but you can't change the truth. A generator that employs magnetic neutralization and coils that are neutral and do not affect the operation of the motor when put under load can be powered for very little cost by a fairly small motor while delivering useful power far in excess of the cost to run the motor. These are the facts. Your opinion matters little.

I know I am right. You say my opinion matters little. Maybe, but fact and truth do matter. You have never presented any evidence that your schemes of "magnetic neutralization" & "speed-up under load" contribute to improved generator performance at rated speed and load, have you? That is just your opinion.

So build up your machine and show the world the truth. We've waited years to see you deliver on your promises. Please don't disappoint us again.

Regards,
bi

[Turion]

You've spent much of the time I have known you on the forum pushing the big lies that magnetic neutralization and coils that speed up under load are worthless, meaningless, and of no use.You've said that adding coils with core mass does not negatively affect the motor. You have stated that "at speed" they make no difference to the operation of the machine. You know you are wrong. You know it's a lie. You spend all your time trying to sidestep by focusing on semantics rather than concepts, because you can argue semantics, but you can't change the truth. A generator that employs magnetic neutralization and coils that are neutral and do not affect the operation of the motor when put under load can be powered for very little cost by a fairly small motor while delivering useful power far in excess of the cost to run the motor. These are the facts. Your opinion matters little.

[bistander]

QUOTE=bistander 496429
This issue about acceleration is irrelevant to operation of the generator in the expected application that is a constant source of power for a household or such. It is much like your magnetic neutralization and speed-up with load which are also irrelevant to operation. That's why I try not to argue about those because they don't matter. I was just trying to correct a false statement you made hoping you'd learn something from me, or Sir Newton.

Regards,
bi

What does that have to do with your lie?

"According to bi, there is NO REACTION of consequence when the rotor is operating at rated speed."

Turion says "According to bi, there is NO REACTION of consequence when the rotor is operating at rated speed."

That is a lie. I've never said that. In fact, numerous times I've told him just the opposite. There are core losses which increase with RPM.

[Turion]

QUOTE=bistander 496429
This issue about acceleration is irrelevant to operation of the generator in the expected application that is a constant source of power for a household or such. It is much like your magnetic neutralization and speed-up with load which are also irrelevant to operation. That's why I try not to argue about those because they don't matter. I was just trying to correct a false statement you made hoping you'd learn something from me, or Sir Newton.

Regards,
bi

[bistander]

I just got 3 UPS notices of package delivery for Monday, but they indicate between 2:00 PM and 8:00 PM, so probably won't get things put together on Monday.

My wife is out of town for ten days, so my evenings, which I usually reserve for her, are free, and I will be able to spend some time on assembly and figuring out what is necessary to adapt the motor to turn the shaft. I will be using an MY1016 or an MY1020 depending on how much torque I need to get it up and running. My first test will be to get the rotor up to speed using the motor, and then show EXACTLY what happens to the RPM and amp draw of the motor when you put 10 coils in close proximity to a rotor that has 22 N52 Neodynium magnets on it that are attracted to the cores of the coils they are spinning by. According to bi, there is NO REACTION of consequence when the rotor is operating at rated speed.

...

Turion says "According to bi, there is NO REACTION of consequence when the rotor is operating at rated speed."

That is a lie. I've never said that. In fact, numerous times I've told him just the opposite. There are core losses which increase with RPM.

What I've claimed is that cogging is insignificant in regards to output at rating.

The change from 12 / 6 to 22 / 5 will certainly lower the cogging force ( torque) and increase frequency, probably significantly. Also, the increased frequency will significantly increase core loss, perhaps 4 to 6 times at equivalent RPM. In other words, I expect it to be easier to get it accelerated at low speed (compare breakaway torque) but draw lots higher current in the prime mover motor at 2700RPM, if you can even reach such speed. And surely see cores heat faster.

What do you think?

bi

[Turion]

I just got 3 UPS notices of package delivery for Monday, but they indicate between 2:00 PM and 8:00 PM, so probably won't get things put together on Monday.

My wife is out of town for ten days, so my evenings, which I usually reserve for her, are free, and I will be able to spend some time on assembly and figuring out what is necessary to adapt the motor to turn the shaft. I will be using an MY1016 or an MY1020 depending on how much torque I need to get it up and running. My first test will be to get the rotor up to speed using the motor, and then show EXACTLY what happens to the RPM and amp draw of the motor when you put 10 coils in close proximity to a rotor that has 22 N52 Neodynium magnets on it that are attracted to the cores of the coils they are spinning by. According to bi, there is NO REACTION of consequence when the rotor is operating at rated speed.

I'm shooting a walk through video at the old house for my wife so she can show family what we have been up to with the remodel. I will post a link to the 'before" and after videos for those who care. Getting close to finishing.

[BroMikey]

Just saving this post to refer to it hopefully next week after Turion builds his generator.

Just quietly waiting.
bi

Ain't gonna happen. You have to do the work to get specific results in the form of input output as each system will get a different set of numbers. And when the number are not the same as your numbers confusion and attacks begin. Your first order of business.

[bistander]

But why encourage the guy down the street, who is barely making ends meet, to buy a semi to get to work when he could buy a Honda and accomplish the same thing? I can’t, in good conscious, support that. My generator is at LEAST $1,500.00 to build with magnets, wire, machining, etc. if you do MOST of the work yourself. You can achieve the same output with a few hundred and no moving parts to wear out or blow up in your face. Which would YOU rather spend your time and money on. I know what MY focus is.

I’m glad YOU see a way to reduce the device size by 500%. I sure don’t.

I will put together the latest version of the generator on Monday when it arrives. I will probably spend even MORE money to wind a whole NEW set of coils with ferrite cores even though I have an entire set of brand new 12 strand coils with iron cores that haven’t even had the ends of the wires stripped yet. I will do this to show Aaron inputs and outputs and finish what I started. And of course to prove bi wrong and shut him up. I won’t say shut him up for good, because he and his kind will always be out there casting doubt on what others try to do. It’s their nature. If someone wants to replicate the generator, all the information has been posted on the forum and I will make a video as I assemble the machine on Monday and talk about how it goes together, how it works, and why it works. For Aaron. Hopefully the output from one coil pair will be enough to loop the machine and self run. If so, I will show all that in the video. If not, I will show that too. At least this is all far in advance of the next conference so Aaron can decide what he wants to do with it.

Just saving this post to refer to it hopefully next week after Turion builds his generator.

Just quietly waiting.
bi

[Turion]

Input is input. Output is output. If the AC output of each coil is rectified and fed into a positive and negative bus bar you get an “average” of the voltage and amps (pretty much). With a DC to DC converter you can reduce it down. The trick will be to see how few of the 12 wires per coil I have to put in series to get speed up under load with this new rotor and if I can put more wires in parallel to reduce the voltage output and increase the amps. It will be a learning experience.

[bistander]

10 coils instead of 12 and magnets only aligned with 2 coils at a time instead of with 12 at once. Also 22 magnets on the rotor instead of 12 and all N instead of N/S/N/S, so we will see.

5 phases 44 poles vs single phase 12 pole.

bi

[Turion]

10 coils instead of 12 and magnets only aligned with 2 coils at a time instead of with 12 at once. Also 22 magnets on the rotor instead of 12 and all N instead of N/S/N/S, so we will see.