Zero Force Motor Project

[BroMikey]

That geometry is more similar to Babcock's motor.

John was building his first ZFMs in the 1970's - it most certainly wasn't new to John - nor did anyone say it was new.

Okay, I am just coming around to understand part. The thing that
sticks out is that the coils bypass the right hand rule? The coils are
not 90 degrees to the magnet. That is why they all look the same
to me. Some used air cores and some not.

If there are any other significant differences, help me out.

[Aaron]

Zfm

Some what like a Zero Force Motor setup, the idea is not new.

That geometry is more similar to Babcock's motor.

John was building his first ZFMs in the 1970's - it most certainly wasn't new to John - nor did anyone say it was new.

[BroMikey]

Some what like a Zero Force Motor setup, the idea is not new.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfgzfl69Q20

[BroMikey]

http://www.permabond.com/materials_bonded/how-to-bond-acetal/

Permabond polyolefin primer used in conjunction with cyanoacrylate
adhesives offer the best strength.

[BroMikey]

https://hackaday.com/2016/03/03/materials-to-know-acetal-and-delrin/

What is a good solvent to use as epoxy on this stuff? Most plastics
can not be glued.


Delrin
glues claim to stick

[BroMikey]

I don't have shielding on mine. But that's me. I m seeing what I need to see out of the machine without shielding which just weights down the rotors.

EDIT:
I use Delrin 9/16 thick. Magnets are 1/4 thick. Space between magnets is 1/32 thick. This allows epoxy 1/64" of space between magnets and rotor without the surface of the magnet extending beyond the surface of the rotor. It also means that 1/64" of epoxy + 1/32" space + 1/64" epoxy totals 1/16 of solid mass between magnets once epoxy has dried.

Sweet rotor design guy, thank you Turion-Man

[BroMikey]

I have published this before, but here is a crappy drawing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyoxymethylene

I use Delrin

Holes on both sides of rotor, opposite each other. Magnets attracted to each other through thin layer of plastic. Also epoxied in place.

The BEST drawing, the magnets are also epoxied in place, but if you think THOSE magnets are going to come out, even when you want them to, you are WRONG!!

is that how your ZFM is now? No shielding?


http://www.ebay.com/itm/DELRIN-PLASTIC-SHEET-1-2-THICK-12-X-12-/332155273889?hash=item4d55ff42a1:g:zBYAAOSw4CFYyV~ q:sc:USPSPriority!66006!US!-1





http://www.ebay.com/itm/Delrin-Sheet-White-750-Thick-x-12-Width-x-12-Length-1532-/121716367649?hash=item1c56dc6121:g:QKAAAOSw-3FZE~UE



http://www.ebay.com/itm/Delrin-Acetal-Plastic-Sheet-1-x-12-x-12-White-Color-/142529600781?hash=item212f6d1d0d:g:HRkAAOSwG-1WxUxL



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[BroMikey]

I have published this before, but here is a crappy drawing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyoxymethylene

I use Delrin

Holes on both sides of rotor, opposite each other. Magnets attracted to each other through thin layer of plastic. Also epoxied in place.

The BEST drawing, the magnets are also epoxied in place, but if you think THOSE magnets are going to come out, even when you want them to, you are WRONG!!

Oh yeah i almost forgot that design, gonna post a dia when I get time.
That's so i don't keep forgetting.

[BroMikey]

Thane Heins was shown to have measurement error by someone I know who is beyond competent in analyzing his machines, but Thane just won't accept the results.

I don't believe there is anything in his work that can contribute to the ZFM project.

Hi Aaron
It does seem to be the case that Thane excepts no outside input
on his designs probably due to the constant battering over the years.
Not by you or other good designers have done those things but others
have, messengers who have an intent. The gov spends lots of money
hiring people sent to drive a wedge so continuity is lost. One way or
another division will stop projects from moving forward.

These are the alphabetized agencies those lists are long. Thane is a
wonderful soul, just like you are Aaron and Matthew, Dave, Peter, John.

The experiment is all we have to follow, this is all Thane has to go on
and his personality is gentle. He can't take it so to speak. Not tough at
all. However Thane is a great man who is threading on thin ice as he
looks for funding.



Another group to follow are the wind turbine builders, they use laminates
and practical designs that will hold up in the rain or high humidity.

I have tried cutting block board, I have a piece that after a couple of
years has turned to dust. Hardwood is fine at SG speeds, not at 10,000
RPM's especially if the rotor is 1" in dia. The stress at these speeds could
be life threatening so these mechanical designs are more about safety
rather than promoting one man's personal agenda.

[Aaron]

zfm

It might look more like this. Notice the shielding cups or sleeves along
the bottom of the magnets used to reflect stray fields back toward
the work or shall I say this method will intensify the field on the opposite
end much like the magnet on your speakers.Yes it works.

Here is an advanced builder. His name is Thane Heins and even tho this
is not a photo of a ZFM the rotor design could be used. it also helps to
hold the magnets more securely raising the level of safety.





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Thane Heins was shown to have measurement error by someone I know who is beyond competent in analyzing his machines, but Thane just won't accept the results.

I don't believe there is anything in his work that can contribute to the ZFM project.

[Aaron]

zero force and misc

John was the one that told us that originally in the Bedini Monopole 2 group when he first showed that video of the motor with the iron pipe. Maybe 05, 06 time frame. Those groups have long since been shut down. But I remember it well because that was one of the few times I ever got straight answer out of him. He said there is no force exerted on the magnet, the magnet rides the flux lines on the side of the coil. He talked about the switching a little bit, switching direction at the center, then he never talked about the thing again until he started showing the printed models.

Matt

You're right about that, it rides the flux lines and the no force in this context is that it is not pushed or pulled in opposition or attraction at the end of the core like the SG or other common arrangements. But, it also may follow the "true" magnetic field.

There is a difference between the lines of flux and the true magnetic field of the coils and they both have different relationships with the coil and different interactions with the permanent magnet on the rotor.

One does not interact with the Bloch Wall and one does, hence the clover leaf pattern John has drawn for years.

There are supposed to be possible gains with this motor and that isn't supposed to come from lines of flux that do not interact with the Bloch Wall.

I also think it is important to study the original 2 pole version with a single north and single south. Their relationship with the coils is different from the 2 coil 4 pole version. To be more analogous to the original 2 pole version, it would have to be 4 poles with 4 coils. Then, we would be comparing apples and oranges.

[BroMikey]

I am not aware of any material which can reflect magnetic lines of force or B-field. Also, the iron shielding cup shown in your diagram will shunt the magnet reducing or possibly eliminating the external field, ie render the magnet ineffective.

It might look more like this. Notice the shielding cups or sleeves along
the bottom of the magnets used to reflect stray fields back toward
the work or shall I say this method will intensify the field on the opposite
end much like the magnet on your speakers.Yes it works.

Here is an advanced builder. His name is Thane Heins and even tho this
is not a photo of a ZFM the rotor design could be used. it also helps to
hold the magnets more securely raising the level of safety.





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[bistander]

B-field

...
Then place 5 circular sheets of very thin shielding metal on the back in
a laminate formation to reflect all stray lines of force in the right direction.

On the B-field talking points, I do not understand yet.

I am not aware of any material which can reflect magnetic lines of force or B-field. Also, the iron shielding cup shown in your diagram will shunt the magnet reducing or possibly eliminating the external field, ie render the magnet ineffective.

[James McDonald]

Bedini notes that current drops to "zero" when iron core in introduced into the coil. He says the rotor speed increases while at the same time the current input declines. Usually when you introduce iron in a coil you increase losses in the system and you would expect the rotor speed to decrease. Therefore you have a system that appears to have an anomalous behavior. Two things to notice. First, the load is very light. The only load is the bearings for the rotor and air friction. Second, we don't know all the physical characteristics of the coil with and without the iron core. Usually you would expect the iron core in increase the inductance of a coil lower the resonant frequency. The physical characteristics are not obvious but there is the obvious increase in the rotational speed to the rotor. Therefore it appears the resonant frequency is actually INCREASING when the iron core is introduced. I was hoping to find more construction details to make this more evident. If these are available online, please post a link. Thanks in advance.

Hi Wayne --

The Bedini ZFM air coil is wrapped on a cut out 4 inch PVC pipe. The PVC pipe is cut down to 0.75 inches for the magnet wire to be wrapped onto. The DC resistance of each coil is 2.5 ohms. That resistance includes the meter leads. The magnet wire size that was used is 20 gauge. Each coil is wrapped bi-filar meaning two wires wrapped at the same time. The calculated resistance of each 100 foot length of magnet wire is 1.015 ohms. Each side of the coil is series together making the calculated DC resistance being 2.030 ohms. Depending on your meter and test leads you will see 0.5 to 1 ohm of lead resistance. The coils are configured in a Toroid form and then both sides are series together making the calculated total DC resistance of the coil being 4.060 ohms. The Bedini-Cole circuit is based on Audio Transistors and they have no problem driving 4 ohm speakers. See the attached picture of my finished coils. I will tell you I made my coils bigger than the original Bedini ZFM. I cut the inside wrap form to 1 inch due to my bigger gauge wire I used which was 18 gauge. I used 450 foot of 18 gauge wire on each side. My coil is one continuous magnet wire with a calculated DC resistance on each side of the coil being 2.873 ohms. So my coil is different from the original Bedini. The magnet wire bundle is bigger therefore I had to use bigger Neo magnets to induce the magnetic field into every wire wrapped on the coil form. My magnets are pretty much the same size as the SSG magnets but are N52 Neos with a 76 pound pull force. If you want all the information in a bundle you need to get the ZFM video from Aaron's web site. This video and book has all the collected information and the 2017 conference video.

-- James

[BroMikey]

I concur with Matt and Turion on the firing position just past the center of the coil. Various experiments over the past 6 months verify this over and over again. By the way it appears that the angle beyond the midpoint of the coil is about 20 degrees

Matt's explanation of the B field is dead on. Initially I was somewhat stumped as to why the magnet would blow right past the coil pole end that has the opposite polarity. Again repeated experiments verified this. The Neo magnets are definitely in surfing mode.

From the length of coil on time experiments (25 to 90 degrees) the greater duration dictates the amount of kick you obtain. The best results (speed and torque) obtained were in the 65 to 80 degree range of on time.

The air gap on the YZFM is about 0.375" at the closest approach with 1"Dx3/8"T Neo's on the current Iron rotor. The greatest speed was obtained 6 months ago with an Aluminum rotor with a slightly greater air gap and 3/4"Dx3/8"T Neo's at 36 volts.

My next move, one that is already in motion, is machining new Aluminum rotors. Simple design that is easily modified for differing Neo lengths and thicknesses. In this instance I am progressively tightening the air gap to 0.180" and later perhaps even more as the results dictate. Happy to share the rotor print. As a note the magnetic Iron bar stock is very expensive so Aluminum is useful for the prototyping mode.

Following James McD's lead I will test one rotor with a rectangular 1-1/2"Lx1"Wx1/2"T at this tighter gap. Expect to be on track with this end of the month or early next.

I will use the Loctite structural adhesive for the Neo's along with the Fiberglass shipping tape,

Thanks for all the sharing and information - just reinforces my initiative,
Yaro

Thanks Yaro, excellent data, it is very important that we share, which
means posting specific hardware designs as well as theological
references. posting your air gap of 3/8" is great to hear about.

On rotor machining so magnets don't fall out, personally I will use a
hole saw to set the magnets. For instance my design would be a plastic
rotor (HT composite) with 1 1/2" holes cut into it. If the magnets were
3/4" thick or high I would use a rotor 1/2" thick to set magnets into.

Then place 5 circular sheets of very thin shielding metal on the back in
a laminate formation to reflect all stray lines of force in the right direction.

On the B-field talking points, I do not understand yet.